Big Blue Huddle

To me OBJ was always a more likely option than making a trade at the deadline.  OBJ will cost nothing but prorated salary.  Not future picks that will be used to build a contender in the coming years.  If they sign him and he's a shell of himself...he'd still likely be better than anything they currently have...but they can still move on after the season. 

If you trade for a guy like Jeudy you're almost forced into a situation where you have to sign him after that.  It makes it a lot harder to move on if you realize you've made a mistake.  OBJ wouldn't hurt the rebuilding and could, at least potentially, help the here and now team try to win the division that they're suddenly only 1 game back in.

There is no reason to believe he will based on what we've seen since the day he signed here.  It's certainly possible he provides a slight improvement over the guys they've been forced to throw out there the past few weeks but he's not likely to be some sort of difference maker.

Quote from: Blue Fire on November 08, 2022, 09:50:18 PMTerrible breakdowns but man that non call on that penalty was huge.

It was a ridiculous no call and I'd love to hear that ref try to explain what the hell he was looking at. But they gave up two other goals to tie it up all on their own including 14 seconds into the damn period. I don't know what has gotten into this team in 3rd periods but last season they were a dominant force and this year they blow leads faster than you can spell Shesterkin.

What an absolute unmitigated disaster.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 07, 2022, 09:33:17 AMGood post.

True that they're only three back, but Carolina and the Devils do have a game in hand. Plus the Flyers are one point behind them and have two games in hand.

I'm not worried about the standings if you just take a snapshot of where things stand right now, but just watching the games I feel like I'm watching a different team than last year. I agree that last year's success was tied very closely to Shesty (he nearly won the Hart trophy as a goalie) and he has not been very good this year.

We're only 13 games in, so it's not panic button time by any means, but if things still look like this a month from now, the odds of them just flipping a switch later in the season and becoming an elite team seem pretty low.

This is a team that I genuinely thought had realistic Cup aspirations for this year, so my bar is pretty high. I have not moved away from that view to this point, but I would say this first month has been significantly below my expectations for this team.

I would have thought they'd have looked better against a couple of the lousy teams they've played than they have that's for sure.  I did like how they looked against the Avs though. I think they'll probably have to make a trade at the deadline but they do have enough pieces to make that work.  Shesty will likely get at least a little better as the season goes along which will help a lot, but Halak I'm not sure about.  This might just be who he is at this point.  If there's a glaring weakness right now I think that's it. 

Quote from: Rambo89 on November 07, 2022, 05:50:42 AMYeah I'm worried about this team.  Need to get it going and be more consistent.  Kreider being demoted to the 4th line should have been done years ago to get him to be more consistent. 

He did score 50+ goals last year.  Clearly they were sending a message in the game yesterday based on something that had happened but I wouldn't expect it to last long.  Even in OT he was back with Mika again before the PP that effectively ended the game was called.

Last year they won as many games as they did basically riding Shesty during an other worldly season.  They were routinely out shot by a wide margin and often times it didn't even matter cause Shesty was just going to win it on his own.  Though certainly not an ideal formula, it worked quite well last year.

This year they would appear to be a better overall team.  Trocheck is considerably better than Strome.  I know Lindgren being hurt shook things up yesterday, but the 3rd pair of Schneider/Jones is leaps and bounds better than whatever slop they were throwing out there at the start of the season last year (Nemeth anyone?).

The biggest difference to me is that Shesty has been solid...but not Vezina level and Halak has been below replacement level so far.  Which is tough to say when he's coming off his best performance of the season, albeit in another loss, but he's been brutal. 

And despite all the doom and gloom...they're only 3 points out of first place.  The Devils of all teams have taken over the pole position by the way.  It's not like their playing so poorly that they're falling behind the pack in the race.  They win 2 in a row and they may well be first place in their division again. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 04, 2022, 09:40:05 AMMaybe it's me being petty, but I think it's more about how much better Bradberry made the Eagles than how much better he could have potentially made the Giants this season.  It kills me to think that the Giants cutting Bradberry could potentially lead to another Eagle's Super Bowl trophy

It's certainly unfortunate that he ended up in Philly playing very well but there's no way to have known that's where he would land.  Or that he would play this well after last year when he wasn't all that special.

Schoen was looking at the big picture as he should.  He saw the roster, the cap mess, the talent deficiencies and said we're not going to be good for at least 2 years.  Like REALLY good, not just 6 tight wins that could have gone either way if the ball bounces differently on one play here or there.  We're talking Chiefs/Bills good.  So then he had to decide which players might be a part of THAT team that's very good.  Would 33 year old Bradberry be a part of that team?  Probably not.  So if that's the case why bother paying him now?  Or kicking the can down the road as it were.

I can't blame the guy for not knowing Bradberry would go back to being excellent for the rival Eagles.  He could only make decisions based on the info he has at hand and based on that I think it was the right call.  It just worked out to the Eagles benefit.

It makes sense given the unholy mess he was given.  And it's refreshing to hear him say that he's aware these WRs suck but there's nothing he could do about it this year.  Rather than the ole Gettleman nonsense where he'd try to convince us that "oh no, Marcus Johnson and Richie James are poised to be studs for the foreseeable future"....as though none of us possess eyes.

It's what a lot of us have been saying all along:  They're on the right track, they finally have competency in the GM position for the first time in a long time, and this season while a hell of a lot more fun than just about any other the past decade...will not secure the end goal of competing for super bowls.  In a couple years provided they continue to make the right decisions and draft well I do think they will get there.  It just won't be this year.

Quote from: Rambo89 on November 02, 2022, 09:19:59 AMThere wasn't a Diggs player available at the deadline.  I don't believe Schoen will hesitate to pull the trigger on a trade that involves draft picks for an established impact player.  If you listen to his reasoning and what he says in interviews there is nothing that makes me believe he will never trade for players.  He's just not going to make the short sighted dumb moves that Gettleman did.

It's crazy to me how we can spend 4 years watching Gettleman make every mistake you could possibly make, many of them multiple times over, and before his stench has fully left the office there's already a faction of the fan base openly longing for Schoen to do the same thing!

A good rule of thumb is to think to yourself..."what would Gettleman do here" and whatever conclusion you come to just know that would be the wrong thing to do.  Gettleman would have absolutely traded multiple high picks to get a mediocre WR like Claypool and then look stunned when the Giants regress.  Only now he's stuck himself with yet another problem and no options to fix it. Are you kidding me, he did it when they were 1-6 in a hopeless season! 

Schoen clearly has a plan, which is more than his predecessor could ever claim, and he's not wavering from that plan simply because the Giants are 6-0 in one score games.  Because that is simply impossible to sustain forever.  Enjoy this season, enjoy every win they can muster because this is way more fun than losing every week and knowing the team has no chance whatsoever week in and week out.  This season, if nothing else, should put to rest the fallacy that you need 4 years to build a team.  They've already made progress in a single offseason and have a clear direction towards getting even better next year.  Stay the course...reap the rewards.

I'd be ok with Jeudy because he's still on the rookie contract and thus is young enough that he could still be around for when the Giants are ready to really compete.  When you think that the Giants are ABSOLUTELY drafting a WR with one or both of their top picks in the next draft, Jeudy is likely better than anybody they're getting in the 2nd round anyway.  They'll have to pay him in short order if he's good but if he's good then he's probably worth what it'll cost.

I wouldn't be nearly as ok with Cooks. He's not as good, he's not as young, and he's already on a bigger contract.  His best football is behind him at this point.  Giants shouldn't be bringing guys like that in right now.  Unless you're telling me the price is a 6th or 7th round pick and the Texans are picking up some of that bill I wouldn't even bother engaging that as an option.

But if they end up standing pat and doing nothing at all...I'm ok with that too.  The plan was never going to be to compete this year.  This year was supposed to purge all the garbage Gettleman left behind in terms of bad players and worse contracts.  They've managed to do that pretty well.  So if they decide to sit tight, wait until next year, and then go all in bringing guys for the long haul I'm fine with it.  They've already proven to be better than I had any reasonable right to expect.  This season is a win in my book regardless of what happens from here.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 31, 2022, 11:44:55 AMI think the last sentence is the key one. Day three means fourth rounder or lower. Based on everything we know, it seems highly likely (and Vacchiano obviously agrees) that Schoen will be unwilling to part with premium draft capital. I think he'd rather do no trade at all than part with a 2, and apparently it's questionable that he'd even part with a 3.

We'll know for sure in less than 30 hours, but I think it's pretty clear that our GM is not likely to want to give up valuable assets this year to add one player to a team that has a lot of needs still.

Isn't it a breath of fresh air to be able to say that about the GM!?!  It makes me want to shed a single tear of joy.  Competency at the top!  Who would have thought it even possible?

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 31, 2022, 09:13:13 AMYup, that razor-thin margin amplifies every turnover, every missed throw, every dropped pass, and every penalty, every defensive mistake, and so on.   This team needs to play near-perfect ball (or have the other team mess up to offset the mistake)

I think this is the main culprit.  They've been playing perfect football and barely squeaking out wins late.  One mistake here or there in any of those games could have meant a loss.  In this game 3 backup OL couldn't get anything to open up in the running game for either Barkley or Jones. No TE worth a crap, no WRs worth a crap although Slayton did appear to at least show up this week, and even still they were only Richie James' second fumble away from having the ball with a chance to go down the field to try and win the game.  All in all, that's not a bad showing.

But I also agree the Toney thing probably had next to nothing to do with the loss.  I haven't seen a single teammate wish him well or do the usual "well we'll miss him but this is a business" rhetoric.  It's been radio silence.  Makes me think they're happy to be rid of him.  Especially if you believe one of his tweets which, after running it through the Young Joka translator, appears to indicate he was faking at least one of his hamstring injuries.

Quote from: babywhales on October 29, 2022, 12:47:36 AMBaker and now Toney.... unbelievable

Has any other GM had two first round picks go 1 and done in a 3 year span? It's gotta be the record.

On the contrary I have never had more confidence in a GM. It's been a long time since the Giants had competency in the office so it's understandable why it might be a bit foreign but this is what it looks like.

In Buffalo they tore down a playoff team because that playoff team wasn't championship caliber. They happened to sneak into the playoffs but that core was never going to win anything and they knew it. So they did the right thing and traded whatever it took to get Josh Allen. And now they very much are super bowl contenders.

Similarly the Giants may well make the playoffs this year but winning all of these one score games is simply not sustainable. Eventually they're going to lose some of these. The Giants aren't real contenders yet. They're significantly better than they have been when the clown show was running things but they're not there yet and that's ok! Because they're finally heading in the right direction.

So they will continue to evaluate Barkley and Jones over the rest of the season and make their decision at that time on both of them. Trading Toney to me doesn't make the Giants any worse than they were last week by the way cause the guy never plays. We have a sample size of one electric game against the cowboys vs countless others where he was invisible or more likely not on the field. The 53 guys they field on Sunday are exactly the same 53 guys they'd have fielded if they didn't make the trade. That is just the best offer they could find for a pain in the ass that never plays. To be honest I'm surprised they got that much.

BRUTAL blunder from Igor to give the Avs the lead but the Rangers have played them step for step and at times controlled the play. All in all I'd say they pst the test. Can't see Igor doing something that stupid on a regular basis.