Why the Giants lost in Seattle

[MightyGiants]

1) They really missed Bellinger.  With bottom-of-the-barrel WR corps and a marginal O-line, the talents of this young, quality two-way TE acted as the duct tape to hold the offense together.  Worse, there was no one who had the same talent set that could replace him

2)  The two stars that drive the offense both had poor games.  DJ had a poor 71.4 QB Rating and 24.2 QBR.  Clearly, this wasn't DJ's best game.   Barkley wasn't much better, with 53 yards and an average 2.7 yards per carry

3)  The Giants were outcoached.  I am not a fan of Pete Carroll, the man, but damn he does know how to coach, as does his staff.   On top of that, I don't think the Giants coaches did a very good job preparing the team for the 12th man.   The offense seemed to really struggle with the noise in many different ways.

4) Special Teams-  between the penalties and the turnovers, the third unit had a big hand in losing this game.

5) A tired team-  last week, they flew to Florida and back and then had to go all the way over to the West Coast.   I am not sure they were even fully recovered from their trip to London

6) The injury gauge.  The Giants faced a much healthier team than themselves.   Besides the aforementioned Bellinger, they were missing 40% of their O-line, they were missing their two best WRs, and they are missing two important Edge rushers and a couple of DBs.   They also lost a defensive interior player (Williams) early in the game.   You can't keep losing starters week and week; eventually, it's going to show on the field.

7)  I am not sure this is a factor, but it could be.   Even if the players are saying the right thing, I could see it playing on their minds that as the trade deadline nears, the team traded away talent rather than acquiring talent to fill holes.   Sort of creates an impression the team isn't all in on the season.   As I said, it might not be an issue, but I could see how at least for some players, it could be.

[babywhales]

1-6, I completely agree with.
4 straight wins, something was going to happen sooner or later.  You can't X and O every substandard issue a flawed roster has, eventually the issues to overcome were going to catch up to them.

All that being said, 10 pts off 2 special teams fumbles and the game is right there for the taking.  Truly amazing considering the Giants offense did little to nothing to earn the right to win. 

I do not see #7 as in issue, as Toney had no positive impact on the offense to date. I think the impression given is the team is moving forward with the players who are consistently working here together. Focus and playhard or you may be the next player to follow. I think trying to paint the picture the GM or Organization is given up is a stretch.

 

[MightyGiants]

I found this interesting.  I heard a mention on a podcast that Justin Herbert faced the Seahawks' defense last week.  Interestingly enough Herbert didn't fair much better than DJ


Herbert

QBR- 28.7
QB rating- 84.9

Jones

QBR- 24.2
QB Rating- 72.4

Herbert did better but not by much, and Herbert didn't have to deal with the 12th man.   Maybe this Seatle defense is better than I am giving them credit for.

[True Blue]

This was a tough game on paper, that I did not expect to win.

However, I did not expect to lose in the fashion they did, considering how well coach they have been all season.

Between Richie James, DJ overthrowing a couple big passes that needed to be completed, and a couple drops, they just beat themselves.

Hopefully the rest from the bye, an extra week to prepare, and get healthy, and a couple home games against 1 win teams, they can get back on track, and find a rhythm and gain some momentum back going into the slate of games that come after the next two. This bye week and next two games are going to be crucial going into the tougher stretch, and a potential playoff push.

We have 5 division games and the red hot Vikings on schedule, we need to win at least half of those games.

[Gman329]

I think this game showed the razor thin margin of error this team operates under.  They have to be at their best to win and missing two starting OLs and the TE made that impossible.  The ground game, including Jones' scrambles and called runs, was largely shut down and our receivers cannot pick up the slack.  Slayton is serviceable and Wandale is young and hopefully learning.  Outside of those two, our receivers are practice squad level. There is simply nobody there a DB cannot blanket for three seconds - more than long enough, especially given our patchwork OL.  Even on those 3rd down conversions to Slayton in the 2nd half, the DB was in his hip pocket. 
Forget the trade deadline - we're rebuilding and need to stay patient......but between the draft and free agency, we definitely need some weapons on the outside. And, as always, continue building the OL.     

[MightyGiants]

I think this game showed the razor thin margin of error this team operates under.  They have to be at their best to win and missing two starting OLs and the TE made that impossible.  The ground game, including Jones' scrambles and called runs, was largely shut down and our receivers cannot pick up the slack.  Slayton is serviceable and Wandale is young and hopefully learning.  Outside of those two, our receivers are practice squad level. There is simply nobody there a DB cannot blanket for three seconds - more than long enough, especially given our patchwork OL.  Even on those 3rd down conversions to Slayton in the 2nd half, the DB was in his hip pocket. 
Forget the trade deadline - we're rebuilding and need to stay patient......but between the draft and free agency, we definitely need some weapons on the outside. And, as always, continue building the OL.     

Yup, that razor-thin margin amplifies every turnover, every missed throw, every dropped pass, and every penalty, every defensive mistake, and so on.   This team needs to play near-perfect ball (or have the other team mess up to offset the mistake)

[True Blue]

I think this game showed the razor thin margin of error this team operates under.  They have to be at their best to win and missing two starting OLs and the TE made that impossible.  The ground game, including Jones' scrambles and called runs, was largely shut down and our receivers cannot pick up the slack.  Slayton is serviceable and Wandale is young and hopefully learning.  Outside of those two, our receivers are practice squad level. There is simply nobody there a DB cannot blanket for three seconds - more than long enough, especially given our patchwork OL.  Even on those 3rd down conversions to Slayton in the 2nd half, the DB was in his hip pocket. 
Forget the trade deadline - we're rebuilding and need to stay patient......but between the draft and free agency, we definitely need some weapons on the outside. And, as always, continue building the OL.   

Yup, that razor-thin margin amplifies every turnover, every missed throw, every dropped pass, and every penalty, every defensive mistake, and so on.  This team needs to play near-perfect ball (or have the other team mess up to offset the mistake)

Agreed on both, they have done well so far. But when the top players have the inevitable down day, it is going to be extremely hard to overcome with the poor level of talent of the players that need to step up.

Next year, I expect only Slayton and Wan'Dale to be retained. I think(?) Shepards contract is done after this year and probably would not resign. Sills I am OK keeping only as a PS player with familiarity with the system.

We should probably also invest in a decent backup RB and TE. We don't need anything elite, just people that can step up to help keep Barkley fresh, and the depth behind Bellinger isn't too good. Myarick probably wouldn't make many other rosters.

[Gmo11]

Yup, that razor-thin margin amplifies every turnover, every missed throw, every dropped pass, and every penalty, every defensive mistake, and so on.   This team needs to play near-perfect ball (or have the other team mess up to offset the mistake)

I think this is the main culprit.  They've been playing perfect football and barely squeaking out wins late.  One mistake here or there in any of those games could have meant a loss.  In this game 3 backup OL couldn't get anything to open up in the running game for either Barkley or Jones. No TE worth a crap, no WRs worth a crap although Slayton did appear to at least show up this week, and even still they were only Richie James' second fumble away from having the ball with a chance to go down the field to try and win the game.  All in all, that's not a bad showing.

But I also agree the Toney thing probably had next to nothing to do with the loss.  I haven't seen a single teammate wish him well or do the usual "well we'll miss him but this is a business" rhetoric.  It's been radio silence.  Makes me think they're happy to be rid of him.  Especially if you believe one of his tweets which, after running it through the Young Joka translator, appears to indicate he was faking at least one of his hamstring injuries.

[TDToomer]

Agreed on both, they have done well so far. But when the top players have the inevitable down day, it is going to be extremely hard to overcome with the poor level of talent of the players that need to step up.

Next year, I expect only Slayton and Wan'Dale to be retained. I think(?) Shepards contract is done after this year and probably would not resign. Sills I am OK keeping only as a PS player with familiarity with the system.

We should probably also invest in a decent backup RB and TE. We don't need anything elite, just people that can step up to help keep Barkley fresh, and the depth behind Bellinger isn't too good. Myarick probably wouldn't make many other rosters.

Of all the players due a 2nd contract you think Slayton will be one of them? It would have to be very cheap. He's a #1 receiver who would be a #4 on almost every other team in the NFL.

[Rambo89]

I think this is the main culprit.  They've been playing perfect football and barely squeaking out wins late.  One mistake here or there in any of those games could have meant a loss.  In this game 3 backup OL couldn't get anything to open up in the running game for either Barkley or Jones. No TE worth a crap, no WRs worth a crap although Slayton did appear to at least show up this week, and even still they were only Richie James' second fumble away from having the ball with a chance to go down the field to try and win the game.  All in all, that's not a bad showing.

But I also agree the Toney thing probably had next to nothing to do with the loss.  I haven't seen a single teammate wish him well or do the usual "well we'll miss him but this is a business" rhetoric.  It's been radio silence.  Makes me think they're happy to be rid of him.  Especially if you believe one of his tweets which, after running it through the Young Joka translator, appears to indicate he was faking at least one of his hamstring injuries.

The James fumbles were the difference between it being a one score game and a two TD game.  But most weeks you're not going to win when your offense really only put up 6 points.  Even if James doesn't fumble either time I don't think the Giants would have won the game.  But it would have been closer than it was.

[DaveBrown74]

I think the loss has absolutely zero to do with the Toney trade. If anything, it was probably a relief for some of these guys, but I certainly don't think it contributed to the loss. That makes very little sense to me.

[True Blue]

Of all the players due a 2nd contract you think Slayton will be one of them? It would have to be very cheap. He's a #1 receiver who would be a #4 on almost every other team in the NFL.

Slayton is the only proven deep threat they have, has played pretty well when called upon for the most part. If they can get a real #1 or some promising rookies, he makes for an effective #3/4 and won't command a large contact.

Looking at the list of upcoming FAs who are in the final years of their deals, the players I think worth resigning would be:

Barkley, Gates, Ward, Moreau, Love, and Slayton for sure, maybe OX, Hudson, and Sills depending on costs. But with their cap space, getting these all under contract is extremely doable if they deem it neccessary, at the end of the day I trust Schoen and Dabolls decision making with personell, they have made sweet lemonade with some rotten fruit this year. Still not fully sold on Jones yet, I can't help but think that the coaches plan to minimize their flaws, even if they had an elite receiving core I am unsure they fully trust him to start slinging it. We'll see, I'd be ok bringing him back as a 2 year bridge, but unsure he would agree to that.

[afan56]

1) They really missed Bellinger.  With bottom-of-the-barrel WR corps and a marginal O-line, the talents of this young, quality two-way TE acted as the duct tape to hold the offense together.  Worse, there was no one who had the same talent set that could replace him

2)  The two stars that drive the offense both had poor games.  DJ had a poor 71.4 QB Rating and 24.2 QBR.  Clearly, this wasn't DJ's best game.   Barkley wasn't much better, with 53 yards and an average 2.7 yards per carry

3)  The Giants were outcoached.  I am not a fan of Pete Carroll, the man, but damn he does know how to coach, as does his staff.   On top of that, I don't think the Giants coaches did a very good job preparing the team for the 12th man.   The offense seemed to really struggle with the noise in many different ways.

4) Special Teams-  between the penalties and the turnovers, the third unit had a big hand in losing this game.

5) A tired team-  last week, they flew to Florida and back and then had to go all the way over to the West Coast.   I am not sure they were even fully recovered from their trip to London

6) The injury gauge.  The Giants faced a much healthier team than themselves.   Besides the aforementioned Bellinger, they were missing 40% of their O-line, they were missing their two best WRs, and they are missing two important Edge rushers and a couple of DBs.   They also lost a defensive interior player (Williams) early in the game.   You can't keep losing starters week and week; eventually, it's going to show on the field.

7)  I am not sure this is a factor, but it could be.   Even if the players are saying the right thing, I could see it playing on their minds that as the trade deadline nears, the team traded away talent rather than acquiring talent to fill holes.   Sort of creates an impression the team isn't all in on the season.   As I said, it might not be an issue, but I could see how at least for some players, it could be.

Seemed pretty simple, since we had no passing game, just stop Barkley, and that did it.

[MightyGiants]

Seemed pretty simple, since we had no passing game, just stop Barkley, and that did it.

One of the "secrets" to the Giants success is that the Giants need to stop the running of both Barkley and Jones, but as you point out they did that

[Ed Vette]

Seemed pretty simple, since we had no passing game, just stop Barkley, and that did it.

In a nutshell Bob.