QUESTIONS about Kayvon Thibodeaux

[brownelvis54]

Is it just me? Am I just being a homer? It seems like he gets held a lot. Yet never seems to get called. I heard in some sports rookies don't get the same "benefits" as vets. It saw once said Michael Jordon traveled a lot but never was called. Tom Brady in his prime seemed to get special treatment as well. So again, am I seeing things different because my love for the Giants?

Since this is a thread about our #1 pick. How in your opinion is Kayvon Thibodeaux doing as of now? Is he where he should be as a rookie? How high or low to you envision his potential?

[True Blue]

While not getting the sacks, he has done well beyond the stat sheets, I do hope the sacks start coming though, we have not gotten enough as a unit

[DaveBrown74]

I like Thibodeaux a lot and think he will be a fine player. I appreciate that some fans feel he has been a big disappointment, but I actually think he has looked good overall despite not having the gaudy stats yet. No doubt there is room for improvement, but I think he is trending well.

As to the holding non-calls. Sure, I'm sure there has been some of that, but I'm sure you can find them with a lot of 3-4 OLBs/4-3 DEs out there. When asked about it, Thibs said "well then I need to do a better job of selling it", which is the type of response I love seeing.

I think this guy is talented and committed to the team and to getting better. I feel very good about his being here.

[brownelvis54]

Giants' Kayvon Thibodeaux on lack of holding calls: 'I gotta sell it more'



https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2022/10/29/new-york-giants-kayvon-thibodeaux-on-lack-holding-calls-gotta-sell-it-more/

[President Rick]

IMO he is using the outside rush all too often.  The OT's seem ready for this outside speed rush.  I'd like to see him develop a spin move to the inside, either allowing a more direct path to the pocket or forcing the OG to double him...meaning with Lawrence and Tibs doubled, we'd have 1-2 free pass rushers.

[ozzie]

Is it just me? Am I just being a homer? It seems like he gets held a lot. Yet never seems to get called. I heard in some sports rookies don't get the same "benefits" as vets. It saw once said Michael Jordon traveled a lot but never was called. Tom Brady in his prime seemed to get special treatment as well. So again, am I seeing things different because my love for the Giants?

No, I do not think you are being a "Homer". I see it too. Now, I know there is holding on every play of an NFL game, but some of the stuff Thibodeaux has to fight thru is just obvious and ridiculous.
I don't know, maybe I'm just a "Homer" too.

[Philosophers]

What I see in Kayvon is what I saw in college which is an edge rusher who at this point is 100% dependent on anticipating the snap count and then using speed and bend around the edge to try to get to the QB.  I don't see any speed to power, bull rushing or inside swim move techniques yet.  I believe to be very successful, he is going to need to develop these otherwise OTs will just take a wide out line to negate his movement to the outside.  His athleticism allowed him to do this in college and get away with it, but in the NFL, he needs multiple moves to get to the QB.

[DaveBrown74]

What I see in Kayvon is what I saw in college which is an edge rusher who at this point is 100% dependent on anticipating the snap count and then using speed and bend around the edge to try to get to the QB.  I don't see any speed to power, bull rushing or inside swim move techniques yet.  I believe to be very successful, he is going to need to develop these otherwise OTs will just take a wide out line to negate his movement to the outside.  His athleticism allowed him to do this in college and get away with it, but in the NFL, he needs multiple moves to get to the QB.

Interesting perspective. I will admit, I have not seen tons of inside swim moves from him, and I agree you need those. With that said I'm not watching him closely on every single down.

[Philosophers]

Interesting perspective. I will admit, I have not seen tons of inside swim moves from him, and I agree you need those. With that said I'm not watching him closely on every single down.

Watch him Dave.  If he tries to go inside, OL swallows him up.  There's little power and technique on his part to advance inside.  Also his hand technique to fight off OL is in its infancy in terms of development.  Needs to develop that as well. 

[Trench]

Watch him Dave.  If he tries to go inside, OL swallows him up.  There's little power and technique on his part to advance inside.  Also his hand technique to fight off OL is in its infancy in terms of development.  Needs to develop that as well. 

Agreed

[brownelvis54]

What I see in Kayvon is what I saw in college which is an edge rusher who at this point is 100% dependent on anticipating the snap count and then using speed and bend around the edge to try to get to the QB.  I don't see any speed to power, bull rushing or inside swim move techniques yet.  I believe to be very successful, he is going to need to develop these otherwise OTs will just take a wide out line to negate his movement to the outside.  His athleticism allowed him to do this in college and get away with it, but in the NFL, he needs multiple moves to get to the QB.

Then considering how high we pick them number five overall would you consider him a bust?... I know it's early but still the way you describe him does not sound good to me at all

[Rambo89]

Then considering how high we pick them number five overall would you consider him a bust?... I know it's early but still the way you describe him does not sound good to me at all

Yet we don't have the same standard for the 6th overall pick from 2019

[DaveBrown74]

Yet we don't have the same standard for the 6th overall pick from 2019

Seriously. People are already throwing Thibodeaux under the bus after 6 games of his rookie season coming off a knee injury, but after three seasons of Jones being the starting QB and putting up dismal numbers, a large number of people on this board believe it has been unfair or even impossible to judge him. Wild stuff.

[Rambo89]

Seriously. People are already throwing Thibodeaux under the bus after 6 games of his rookie season coming off a knee injury, but after three seasons of Jones being the starting QB and putting up dismal numbers, a large number of people on this board believe it has been unfair or even impossible to judge him. Wild stuff.

It's unbelievable and I think Thibodeaux has played well and shown some good things.

[Woody]

Yet we don't have the same standard for the 6th overall pick from 2019

I would say that the standard for a QB is much different than that of a defensive end. A Qb has to work with 11 other people in a complex offensive scheme that relies on many people to do their job well for the QB to be successful on an individual basis, consistently. Yes he must see the field , make correct reads and accurate throws. But still others have to run the right routes , block well, and run well to allow for the passer to get it done.
A DE has basically two functions Stopping the run and rushing the pass.   And sometimes drops back in coverage. However, the end is usually in one one battles with a blocker or. Two on running plays.
So far Thibs is being handled by one blocker on most plays.  Hopefully he will learn new techniques etc to beat that blocker from time to time. Or maybe a scheme or to to free him up. He is good and will get better but I thought as the top DE in draft.  He would have been more a factor 8 games into the season.,
And unless I am not seeing it he has not been doubled teamed so far by blockers. When he gets better the entire defense will be better if teams have to focus on him on pass plays and double team him etc .
But so far teams that prepare for Giants can see on film he is handled by one guy.
Hopefully that will change soon and he can put more pressure on QB . And get a couple of sacks at the right time like the Baltimore game.
He plays hard on every play and pursues runners downfield which is very good .
He is close but the college game is much different than college.  Maybe I am expecting to much from the #5 pick.