4 reasons for the Giants to move on from Daniel Jones

[True Blue]

https://gmenhq.com/posts/reasons-ny-giants-move-on-from-daniel-jones-01hbzyex1m75


4. The contract doesn't make Daniel Jones the long-term answer

When Schoen signed Jones to the four-year, $160 million deal, he did so at the very last second. Earlier on in the negotiations, Schoen had a number in mind. Jones' camp reportedly wanted as high as $47 million per season, which the Giants weren't going to meet. This led to the negotiations being dragged out to the final day of the franchise tag deadline, in which, Jones got the deal signed before 4 p.m., and then the Giants had to quickly turn and submit the tag on Saquon Barkley.

The nay-sayers on Jones always felt that Barkley should have gotten paid before Jones did given Barkley was the more proven commodity to the team over Jones. Maybe the Giants should have let Jones test the market in free agency and come back to the Giants if he couldn't get what he wanted. Some even felt the Giants panicked when they signed Jones to that deal because no other team was giving him that kind of money.

After all, during the same free agency period, the Seahawks gave Geno Smith a three-year, $75 million deal. The Saints gave Derek Carr a five-year, $125 million deal. The Raiders gave Jimmy Garoppolo a three-year, $67.5 million deal. Many felt those deals were not only fair, but that they were also team-friendly. Jones had just delivered the Giants their first playoff win since Super Bowl 46 and the Giants didn't want to run the risk of going into 2023 without a quarterback set, so Jones was it.

But the contract came with a catch. Two possible outs. The first one comes after the 2024 season. The Giants can cut Jones after the 2024 season and save $19 million in salary cap space with a $22 million dead cap hit. If you really want to know when this is coming, it will be in April's 2024 NFL Draft.

With the way the season is progressing, the Giants could be in line for a top draft pick and then the decision looms. Will they stick with Jones past the 2024 season? Or will the Giants decide to take their own quarterback? In the first two drafts under Schoen and Brian Daboll, they have passed on them. But they might not in this third one.

3. Daniel Jones is regressing back to previous mistakes

What is most concerning here for Jones isn't just the losing of games during the 2023 season. It's how he is losing them. It's a lot of what happened early on his career that is starting to come back into 2023. The same mistakes that we all thought Daboll and Mike Kafka worked with and fixed a season ago.

Missing reads and receivers down the field? There have been several plays where someone like Jalin Hyatt was deep down the field wide open for an explosive play, but Jones didn't look his way. Or Wan'Dale Robinson was wide open to the point where he is jumping up and down and waving his arms up at Jones, but the ball doesn't find its way to him because Jones doesn't get it. Or Darren Waller finding his way into the end zone wide open for a touchdown that could bring the Giants back into a game they desperately need to win. But instead, Jones never looks his way and tosses a pick-six.

As Devon Witherspoon said on Monday night, Jones is being scouted by opposing defenses as someone who stares down his first target and throws it that way. Another common rookie mistake. Except Jones is in his fifth year as a pro and he's paid like a starting quarterback who isn't supposed to be making those kind of mistakes. These are all things that might be past a coaching thing. These might be the characteristics of a player who will continue to revert back to what they do.

And granted, Jones has been playing behind the worst offensive line in the league, according to Pro Football Focus. They've ranked the Giants dead last since the end of Week 1. But the issues Jones has had don't involve the poor play of the offensive line. These issues are on Jones himself. Maybe the contract gave him too much of a false sense of confidence.

2. The New York market could be too big for Danny Dimes

Sometimes, players just need a fresh start after being in one place for so long. In Jones' case, he's seen a lot of losing football since he took the reigns from Eli Manning. He's seen several head coaches, offensive coordinators, wide receivers and many offensive linemen during his time here.

Sometimes, it just might not be good enough in the end. They say New York is not for everybody. The media is constantly at you. The fans can turn on you in the blink of an eye. For Jones, the minute he was drafted, a lot of fans didn't even want him here to begin with. The lights are the brightest and some can crumble under them.

Jones is 1-12 in primetime games with the world watching. Not exactly a vote of confidence for the $160 million man that is expected to lead the team into the future. Giants co-owner John Mara even once said, "We've done a lot to screw him up," when talking about the QB. Maybe Mara is right. Maybe too many coaching changes mixed with the losing has been too much.

Maybe Jones needs a fresh start elsewhere. Given the current contract, Jones likely isn't getting traded anytime soon, so Jones may not see a fresh start until after 2024. But maybe that is what is best for his career: a lesser-impact media market on a new team to try and turn his career around.

As hard as Jones has tried to be the guy, maybe he just isn't meant to be the guy. It took the Giants 11 years to find the right QB after Phil Simms with Manning. Jones, outside of last season, hasn't lived up to the hype.

1. Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll can pick their guy

In the end, you have to remember one thing. Most general managers and head coaches like to pick their guys. And in this case, they like to pick their own starting quarterback.

Jones was inherited by the current regime. His fifth-year option was not picked up, even if in hindsight, Schoen admits that he should have done so. Daboll initially put Jones in tough situations in training camp to see if Jones could win him over - and he did. But here's the truth, Jones didn't overwhelm the new regime into thinking he was the long-term answer, he had to show them he belonged.

Even with the 2022 season that featured a playoff berth and a win, the Giants brass still wasn't completely sold that Jones was the guy long term. The contract and the possible outs involved to cut Jones after 2024 or 2025 show that. If not, then there are no outs and the Giants are with Jones until the end of the 2026 season. However, Schoen and Daboll still wanted to be sure that Jones could take the next step and built those "in case of emergency" escape clauses in Jones' deal. And if they needed to use them, then it gives Schoen and Daboll a chance to do something all regimes like to do.

They get to pick their own quarterback. Ernie Accorsi got to when he made the trade on the day of the 2004 NFL Draft for Manning. Jerry Reese never got to pick one of his own, but instead, inherited Manning and the two Super Bowl championships that came with it. He tried to get Patrick Mahomes back in 2017, but Andy Reid and the Kansas City Chiefs beat everyone to the punch. Dave Gettleman got to pick his own with Jones.

Schoen inherited Jones, but unlike Reese with Manning, there hasn't been a championship trophy with Jones that prevents Schoen from looking elsewhere. With a draft class that will have a lot of quarterbacks possibly featured as first-round picks, Schoen will be tempted to go after one. And with Jones' contract built the way it is, along with the season the Giants are having, the writing could be on the wall for Danny Dimes.

[Philosophers]

Pick their guy is stupid reason.

[DaveBrown74]

Pick their guy is stupid reason.

Personally, I don't think it's stupid to want to stake your career as a new GM on a QB you and your newly brought in scouting team scouted and selected yourself, rather than effectively betting your livelihood on a struggling/failing relic of the catastrophic Dave Gettleman regime. If anything, I would argue that "stupid" would be sitting there and doing nothing to change anything and just assuming things will get better with incumbent players who aren't doing well.

[JT39]

I have a question for the mods...

When I first joined the site - the first link I saw was near the top of the page that said "All Daniel Jones Discussion here".

Is there a way we can do that again? 5 of the top 6 threads is about Daniel Jones.

[madbadger]

Pick their guy is stupid reason.

Really? It's certainly a reason and it isn't stupid. Jones isn't a good quarterback. NFL head coaches and GM's usually get one opportunity to show they're worth it. If you're Daboll or Schoen do you want to anchor your future to a bad player they didn't pick? I know I wouldn't, and both men didn't get stupid overnight. That contract extension has Mara's grubby fingerprints all over it.

[DaveBrown74]

I have a question for the mods...

When I first joined the site - the first link I saw was near the top of the page that said "All Daniel Jones Discussion here".

Is there a way we can do that again? 5 of the top 6 threads is about Daniel Jones.

Not a bad idea, although I'm actually surprised there is still this much back and forth about Jones at this stage. I feel like things have crystallized at this point, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of Giants fans, media, and the broader NFL community understand what Jones is. And we know for sure what other coaches, front office people, and players think of him as demonstrated by the surveys done by The Athletic.
 
The "it's everyone else's fault but his, and he's actually a top 10 talent" crowd has thinned out very substantially, as that is basically a fringe view at this point. We're in year five. Daniel Jones is not a mystery anymore, if he ever was in the first place. He is what the facts and data clearly say he is.

[JT39]

Not a bad idea, although I'm actually surprised there is still this much back and forth about Jones at this stage. I feel like things have crystallized at this point, and the overwhelmingly vast majority of Giants fans, media, and the broader NFL community understand what Jones is. And we know for sure what other coaches, front office people, and players think of him as demonstrated by the surveys done by The Athletic.
 
The "it's everyone else's fault but his, and he's actually a top 10 talent" crowd has thinned out very substantially, as that is basically a fringe view at this point. We're in year five. Daniel Jones is not a mystery anymore, if he ever was in the first place. He is what the facts and data clearly say he is.

With all that being said - I just dont think we need a new thread every time a media personnel says the same thing about him that the previous did....lol

I mean no offense, I dont give a rats behind what Shannon Sharpe thinks.

[DaveBrown74]

With all that being said - I just dont think we need a new thread every time a media personnel says the same thing about him that the previous did....lol

I mean no offense, I dont give a rats behind what Shannon Sharpe thinks.

Sure. None was taken. If there are going to continue to be many Jones threads, I agree with your suggestion.

[Philosophers]

Personally, I don't think it's stupid to want to stake your career as a new GM on a QB you and your newly brought in scouting team scouted and selected yourself, rather than effectively betting your livelihood on a struggling/failing relic of the catastrophic Dave Gettleman regime. If anything, I would argue that "stupid" would be sitting there and doing nothing to change anything and just assuming things will get better with incumbent players who aren't doing well.

Dave - the inference is that you will have success if you pick your own?  How many failed QBs were picked by their then coaching regime?

The inference is that a coach and his QB will be closer.  Is there any indication DJ and Dabs dont have a great relationship?  If they did not they would not have signed him.

DJ works hard and listens.  That's what a coach wants.  The fact he is not getting it done is not because he was not drafted by Dabs.

In companies everyone learns to work with the existing team. 

[kingm56]

With all that being said - I just dont think we need a new thread every time a media personnel says the same thing about him that the previous did....lol

I mean no offense, I dont give a rats behind what Shannon Sharpe thinks.

Yet, you're posting in every single one of those threads, multiple times, including this one. 

[Rambo89]

Dave - the inference is that you will have success if you pick your own?  How many failed QBs were picked by their then coaching regime?

The inference is that a coach and his QB will be closer.  Is there any indication DJ and Dabs dont have a great relationship?  If they did not they would not have signed him.

DJ works hard and listens.  That's what a coach wants.  The fact he is not getting it done is not because he was not drafted by Dabs.

In companies everyone learns to work with the existing team. 

I think the point has more to do with a regime and their success being tied to a QB they didn't draft and that they shouldn't be fired for a QB they didn't draft.  Hypothetically speaking let's say the Giants end up with a top 10 pick and take a QB next spring.  What that QB becomes would likely determine the fate of Schoen's tenure (likely Daboll too).

[ozzie]

I'm not here to say whether DJ is or isn't the guy, but if Schoen & Daboll wanted a diffrent "Guy" they shouldn't have given Jones the contract. The fact that they did says to me that they picked their guy, and it is Jones.
Not saying they won't regret it, but when a choice had to be made, they made it.

[President Rick]

make a list of the qb's you'd rather have WHO ARE actually available to the Giants.
list those you'd not want in any event.
list those in college who will surely [offer proof!!!] be better in the nfl than jones.
add water, stir, and consider.

No one has the answer.

[JT39]

I'm not here to say whether DJ is or isn't the guy, but if Schoen & Daboll wanted a diffrent "Guy" they shouldn't have given Jones the contract. The fact that they did says to me that they picked their guy, and it is Jones.
Not saying they won't regret it, but when a choice had to be made, they made it.

Bingo! People are dismissing Daboll and Jones - but they both wanted him back and paid him handsomely for it. So Jones IS their guy now.

[files58]

If Jones really was "their guy" then the contract would not have been structured with outs after just two years. The look of disgust on Dabol's face is telling. Dabol probably showed Jones 35x what the correct reads are, and still he didn't make the throws. A good not even great QB has to stand up to pressure and make the throws.