Regarding DJ.. have you ever pondered

[andrew_nyGiants]

His emotional attachment to Eli & the team?

I realize that this should never get in the way of performance for a professional however there's a part of me that believes that he wants it SO BAD that he presses unnecessarily which has retarded his development.

I'm not absolving him of anything just a perception.

I've often wondered if a change in scenery would help him based on these facts, or whether it was simply an issue with emotional fragility.

I think of the great QB HC's like Walsh, Gibbs, and to a lessor extent Fassel and consider if any of them could've made a difference in his development.


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[Bob In PA]

His emotional attachment to Eli & the team?

I realize that this should never get in the way of performance for a professional however there's a part of me that believes that he wants it SO BAD that he presses unnecessarily which has retarded his development.

I'm not absolving him of anything just a perception.

I've often wondered if a change in scenery would help him based on these facts, or whether it was simply an issue with emotional fragility.

I think of the great QB HC's like Walsh, Gibbs, and to a lessor extent Fassel and consider if any of them could've made a difference in his development.

Andrew: Those are my suspicions too. Pressing comes from not having much success despite giving your best effort.

You might think that after last year's semi-successful results, he might have developed some swagger. But no.

After spending the off-season working on his faults (as he should) the team was overwhelmed 40-0 in the 1st game.

Although 40-0 was the fault of 53 players plus coaches, I'm certain he put most of it on himself.

The time off should help, along with the absence of pressure to make the playoffs. I'm expecting the to turn him loose, though I'd rather see him go to Daboll and announce that he's turning himself loose - see the difference?

Bob

[Uni]

Have you ever pondered... he's just not NFL starting caliber and a draft mistake by Gettleman? Bad QB drafting happens all the time around the league and it's been that way for decades. So it's not really an outlier that the Giants had a bad eval on DJ and probably shouldn't have drafted him. That's more likely than nursing this idea he's a great QB but hasn't had the support to develop it. I've never seen anything more than flashes from DJ for 5 years now.

[Bob In PA]

Have you ever pondered... he's just not NFL starting caliber and a draft mistake by Gettleman? Bad QB drafting happens all the time around the league and it's been that way for decades. So it's not really an outlier that the Giants had a bad eval on DJ and probably shouldn't have drafted him. That's more likely than nursing this idea he's a great QB but hasn't had the support to develop it. I've never seen anything more than flashes from DJ for 5 years now.

Uni: IMO, whether drafting Jones was good or bad (and whether he's a good or bad QB) are not factors.

We're wondering if anything other than the limit of his ability might be holding him back this year.

We think he played worse this yr than last yr but is capable (at least) of playing as well this yr as last yr.

Bob

[nb587]

There are probably a few reasons for his decline.  I think losing his LT is the biggest reason and a major factor.  Not trusting coverage against your blind spot no doubt contributes to jitters.  But also, success last year was predicated on dumbing down the offense.  This year, with more receiver talent, there was more pressure which he hasn't stepped up to but see 1 above.  Still, his new contract also increases the expectations

[Fletch]

I am pretty sure he thinks he is a better QB than Eli Mannning especially when they played together. Eli Manning also had his brother and was always in his shadow. It always seems like it is something.

I think this year Jones has had the RPO option taken away from him for whatever reason since most defenses were not respecting the pass for whatever reason. Jones has always been an RPO heavy player. I have some strange feeling that he will overcome it this week against the Raiders . I watched some of them last night and they really suck.

[Bob In PA]

There are probably a few reasons for his decline.  I think losing his LT is the biggest reason and a major factor.  Not trusting coverage against your blind spot no doubt contributes to jitters.  But also, success last year was predicated on dumbing down the offense.  This year, with more receiver talent, there was more pressure which he hasn't stepped up to but see 1 above.  Still, his new contract also increases the expectations

nb: Three good reasons (no doubt).

As for the bold print part (dumbing down the offense): first, that could have affected all 11 guys, so even if he fixed it for himself it's still up to the other ten guys to do the same.

Second, if you're right & it slowed down his mental processing then we have to also (as you said) "see 1 above."

Bob

[andrew_nyGiants]

Have you ever pondered... he's just not NFL starting caliber and a draft mistake by Gettleman? Bad QB drafting happens all the time around the league and it's been that way for decades. So it's not really an outlier that the Giants had a bad eval on DJ and probably shouldn't have drafted him. That's more likely than nursing this idea he's a great QB but hasn't had the support to develop it. I've never seen anything more than flashes from DJ for 5 years now.

I never said that he is a great QB nor have I accused the organization of not supporting him.

This is simply a look from a different angle as to whether the short coming is more mental/emotional than it is physical.

I thought it to be an interesting discussion. If you're not into it, that's cool. There are plenty of other threads.


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[Bob In PA]

I am pretty sure he thinks he is a better QB than Eli Mannning especially when they played together. Eli Manning also had his brother and was always in his shadow. It always seems like it is something.

I think this year Jones has had the RPO option taken away from him for whatever reason since most defenses were not respecting the pass for whatever reason. Jones has always been an RPO heavy player. I have some strange feeling that he will overcome it this week against the Raiders . I watched some of them last night and they really suck.

Fletch: I don't have stats on how much RPO they ran last year vs. so far this year.

If you're right saying teams don't respect the pass option, I agree that he should do well most of the rest of this yr because (except for Philly twice & Dallas once we already played the best secondaries, so IMO you're likely correct.

As for the bold print, you're just guessing. I also do a lot of guessing here so I'm not complaining. My only reply is... there are a few areas where he IS better than Eli. One is... he's not just a threat to scramble but also a true weapon as a runner (certainly one of the top running QB's).

That doesn't mean he's a good scrambler, however. In that category, he's barely in the NFL's top half IMO. His average scrambling results are tied to less-than-adequate pocket awareness. IMO, that is his greatest failing.

But remember: you need practice to develop pocket awareness. With the generally lousy and often-injured OL's Giants have given him during his career, there has been NO chance to develop it.  Mostly, he has no choice but to take off running within an instant of planting his back foot.  You can't develop pocket awareness unless there's a pocket !!!

Bob