Mike Lombardi on team building

[katkavage]

kat: I haven't been following everyone else's thoughts on that issue.  Are you expecting a QB next year in the high first round -or- are you almost demanding it?  Bob

If they think their man is there when they pick. Yes. They must. No reaches though. I won't retread why.

[Bob In PA]

If they think their man is there when they pick. Yes. They must. No reaches though. I won't retread why.

kat: Unless a college QB proves himself better than he has shown so far, I don't see a high 1st-rounder yet.

If Schoen and Daboll do on draft day, that's great and I'm with you.

But right now I want Marvin Harrison, Jr. I see him as generational, unless HE proves to be a mirage during the rest of the season (and/or in the college playoffs, assuming Ohio State gets there).

Bob

[katkavage]

kat: Unless a college QB proves himself better than he has shown so far, I don't see one as of today.

If Schoen and Daboll do on draft day, that's great and I'm with you.

But right now I want Marvin Harrison, Jr. I see him as generational, unless HE proves to be a mirage during the rest of the season (and/or in the college playoffs, assuming Ohio State gets there).

Bob

Receivers are temtepermental When they don't get the ball they get pouty. Giants currently don't have a QB that can get him the ball.

[andrew_nyGiants]

If you are building a team,the QB is the most critical position. But if you can't find that QB in year one, yes go to offensive line and defensive line. Understand the a rebuild is not an overnight process. Receivers and running backs are the last pieces to worry about. Giants have been doing it wrong for the last decade. Gettleman, after realizing Eli was done after year one reached for Jones.  I hope Schoen, in year three gets that QB.

You can always pick your QB to build around and let him sit while you're building a competent OLINE. It also depends on how the positions fall in the draft.

If it is a shallow QB pool in a given draft and you can snag a pro-bowl LT where you're sitting, doesn't it make more sense to do that instead of reaching for a middling QB?

I believe it was Parcells/Young who agreed during their hey day that you build from the inside out on both sides of the ball with QB, C, DT, and ILB being the priorities. Not sure how that plays today with premiums being set at LT (because of LT), Edge (because of LT), and CB.


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[andrew_nyGiants]

Giants have addressed the OL in multiple drafts. The can't keep using first or second round picks on them. But they can, with smart scouting, fill holes in the later rounds and free agency. Time to get it right.

If you were addressing me Kat, I was speaking in generalities, not specifically how the Giants should build moving forward.

Good seeing you on the board!


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[katkavage]

You can always pick your QB to build around and let him sit while you're building a competent OLINE. It also depends on how the positions fall in the draft.

If it is a shallow QB pool in a given draft and you can snag a pro-bowl LT where you're sitting, doesn't it make more sense to do that instead of reaching for a middling QB?

I believe it was Parcells/Young who agreed during their hey day that you build from the inside out on both sides of the ball with QB, C, DT, and ILB being the priorities. Not sure how that plays today with premiums being set at LT (because of LT), Edge (because of LT), and CB.


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Absolutely. Do not waste a pick on a middling QB. Giants already did that five years ago. He has to be a QB you really believe become elite.

[Bob In PA]

Receivers are temtepermental When they don't get the ball they get pouty. Giants currently don't have a QB that can get him the ball.

kat: That may be true but I don't see any on the Giants now and have no idea about Harrison, Jr. in that regard.

One way he could lower his standing for me would be to show what you're talking about between now & draft day.

But barring that, I think if he's open even Jones will throw him the ball.

We have only our own views to rely on concerning who's "fault" it is that Jones hasn't gone deep more. We don't know what the coaches think and so far opportunities to go deep have been few and far between.

Our best possible source of what might be "inside info" is IMO Banks/Papa/Cross. They occasionally let something slip, and even when they don't, stuff they say allows us to make certain inferences. So far this season, they have not been on the "Jones's fault" bandwagon.  They're mostly up in arms about the OL.

Bob

[katkavage]

kat: That may be true but I don't see any on the Giants now and have no idea about Harrison, Jr. in that regard.

One way he could lower his standing for me would be to show what you're talking about between now & draft day.

But barring that, I think he's open even Jones will throw him the ball.

We have only our own views to rely on concerning who's "fault" it is that Jones hasn't gone deep more. We don't know what the coaches think and so far opportunities to go deep have been few and far between.

Our best possible source of what might be "inside info" is IMO Banks/Papa/Cross. They occasionally let something slip, and even when they don't, stuff they say allows us to make certain inferences. So far this season, they have not been on the "Jones's fault" bandwagon.  They're mostly up in arms about the OL.

Bob

Sorry, Bob. We all know the OL issues. Many NFL teams have them and it's a reason QBs are dropping like flies. But I'm done with the excuses for Jones. He has to own up to his obvious issues. It's been five plus years. One nice season spurred mainly by Barkley, the defense, and some lucky wins over not so good teams.

[madbadger]

He drafted a coke head quarterback that refused to watch film. He was so bad at "team building" that he didn't even last two years before getting fired. He is one of the few GMs who's opinion I could care less about.

[kartanoman]

In his latest podcast, Mike addressed team building.   A few points he made:

If he was a GM now, he would focus on first finding a QB.   After that, he would pour resources into building the O-line and the D-line.   The rest of the team he would build out with what is left

He also shared a pearl of wisdom from Bill Walsh.   It's that you don't add an elite WR to your team until it's nearly done, in terms of building out.

I find that last statement quite interesting because there is some debate that Walsh didn't need have to have a Jerry Rice to "build out" in order to win in 1981 or 1984. He inherited an already solid, respected and competent receiver in Freddie Solomon who was a quiet but effective receiver for the 49ers dating back to their dark era (NOTE: Miami actually drafted him in 1975). Walsh, the "Genius," knew the kind of receiver he was looking for. When scouting quarterbacks prior to the 1979 draft, Walsh worked his way to Clemson to look at Steve Fuller and ended up more impressed with the receiver who was catching his passes - Dwight Clark. So, in round 10 of the '79 draft, Walsh selects Clark and the 49ers have their two key receivers who will be instrumental in Walsh's offensive scheme as the 49ers rose from the ashes to become Super Bowl Champions in 1981 and 1984. No "elite" receiver required.

But even after Jerry Rice and John Taylor took over for Clark and Solomon, it still took a few years for these "elite" receivers to kick their game into high gear. But, by then, Walsh was retooling his team to be able to contend with the NFC bullies who kicked around the "West Coast Offense" team in the mid-1980s.

So, Lombardi might want to go back and check his notes, or read Walsh's book Finding the Winning Edge to make sure he fully understands what Walsh was all about in building his Camelot.

Peace!

[LennG]

Dancing elephants, remember

[LennG]

We have serviceable hrs so I would not waste a high draft pick there. We have a lot more important issues glaring at us. Again, while not great, with the right QB they can be a very good group.

[TDToomer]

He drafted a coke head quarterback that refused to watch film. He was so bad at "team building" that he didn't even last two years before getting fired. He is one of the few GMs who's opinion I could care less about.

Manziel?

[DaveBrown74]

Manziel?

Yes, although wasn't Lombardi replaced with Ray Farmer in Feb of 2014? If I have the dates right, that would have meant Farmer took Manziel, not Lombardi.

Unless Mad was referring to some other QB in a different stint of Lombardi's on some other team. Not sure.

Got this on Wikipedia:

"In October 2012, sportswriter Jason La Canfora reported that the Cleveland Browns were considering Lombardi for their vacancy at general manager.[10] He was hired for that position five months later.[11] On February 11, 2014, the Browns replaced Lombardi with Ray Farmer.[12]"

Manziel was drafted in May of 2014.

[T200]

I'll go on record again: for me, it's offensive line first, then QB.

Look at Jones; he's been running for his life since he put on a Giants uniform. His clock has been sped up to the point where even when he does have a clean pocket, he rushes.

If an average QB has time and isn't pressured on every play, he can be effective. It all starts up front. If the line can run block, it makes play-action more effective.