Farewell DJ

[B1GBLUE]

As opposed to making excuses for the terrible environment that caused 3 major injuries to starting QBs in just half a season?

not to change the subject, but this is the main reason im not super keen on caleb williams. i watched the game against washington sat. this dude thinks hes michael jackson out there dancing and spinning around in the pocket. yeah it looks great when it works, but i dont think he'll be able to pull that off in the nfl. the dude fumbles ALOT, which is one of the main things people bring up as one of DJ's weaknesses, even though hes gotten much better with it. I want a traditional qb that has good enough mobility. maybe caleb is the next maholmes. but keep in mind maholmes is WAY bigger than caleb. DJ's injuries generally happened in the pocket, but TT's injury happened on the run. so i guess its tough to say either way. maybe we just need a better oline

[B1GBLUE]

There's plenty blame to go round in the whole DJ story.
He was overdrafted.
Had he been taken mid second or thereby, and gone to a functioning ball club, there's a fair chance DJ might've morphed into a decent standard NFL QB, maybe even an elite one.
Maybe not, maybe the "locking on" and inability to read the field was already ingrained.
Nature/nurture.
We'll never know.
But he was drafted 6 overall into an organisation whose dysfunctionality had squandered the latter, possibly peak, years of an elite QB.

I fear our team is destined for many more years as a "banter club".
After last season I thought we were finally on the right road. Were we the finished article?
Not even close, but I felt we were a well coached, well organised club....finally.
But this season we have been so obviously and hopelessly unprepared, for both the season as a whole and individual games.
On top of that, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong.

So where do we go?
We build, we evaluate, we raise draft capital, we scout.
Schoen has a helluva job on his hands.
Every coach's job is on the line.
Every player's job is on the line.
Harsh, honest, realistic, unemotional evaluation of every single employee of the New York Football Giants is Schoen's job...including self scouting and self evaluation.
If he's not up to the job......

totally agree. everyone should be on notice. mainly the coaches. the way we have been outclassed 90% of the season is completely unacceptable. i remember lots of bad giants teams that we fought hard and just couldnt get the lucky bounce. but this is a new level of pathetic.

[B1GBLUE]

The owner has an agenda and palpable biases. But the Giants didn't "ruin" Daniel Jones--at worst they failed to develop an overdrafted project QB into something he had never been previously.

thats fair.

[Blue Since ‘62]

His biggest fault was being drafted by a team with a bad owner and incompetent football people.

This! Until these change, we'll be having discussions about why the Giants suck year after year.

[Bob In PA]

The owner has an agenda and palpable biases. But the Giants didn't "ruin" Daniel Jones--at worst they failed to develop an overdrafted project QB into something he had never been previously.

H-T: Which was worse - the handling of Jones by the Giants or the case of David Carr in Houston? Bob

[B1GBLUE]

H-T: Which was worse - the handling of Jones by the Giants or the case of David Carr in Houston? Bob

i think the giants. houston was an expansion team. you can only do so much with that. the giants are a cornerstone franchise. its like comparing a bad steak from chili's against a bad steak from peter lugers.

[Bob In PA]

i think the giants. houston was an expansion team. you can only do so much with that. the giants are a cornerstone franchise. its like comparing a bad steak from chili's against a bad steak from peter lugers.

B1: It was once the case that you drafted your supposed "franchise QB" first, expecting he might have to sit for one or two years (because you already had a starter).

In today's football, with the salary cap and other factors, you have to expect that guy to start playing no later than the middle of his first season (or sooner).

Today, IMO, you don't draft your franchise QB until you at least have an OL and one WR set. That was the Giants' mistake.  They were operating oblivious to the changes that were occurring in the pro game, and they paid dearly for it.  Sadly, Jones paid the most for the error (along with a few head coaches). But they were well paid so at least none of them will have to sell used cars for a living. lol

[Doc16LT56]

H-T: Which was worse - the handling of Jones by the Giants or the case of David Carr in Houston? Bob

I will say this about David Carr. The year Houston replaced him with Matt Schaub, Houston's offense improved from 28th to 14th with the same personnel. Then they had a top-5 offense the next 3 years.

It's easy to blame everyone but the QB. The reality is that David Carr was a bad player. Matt Schaub took the same cast of characters Carr had and made them look good. You have to give Houston credit for moving on from Carr and switching to Schaub so the offense could finally prosper. Sometimes it really is the QBs fault.

[EDjohnst1981]

I will say this about David Carr. The year Houston replaced him with Matt Schaub, Houston's offense improved from 28th to 14th with the same personnel. Then they had a top-5 offense the next 3 years.

It's easy to blame everyone but the QB. The reality is that David Carr was a bad player. Matt Schaub took the same cast of characters Carr had and made them look good. You have to give Houston credit for moving on from Carr and switching to Schaub so the offense could finally prosper. Sometimes it really is the QBs fault.

That's a really interesting point, Doc and not one that's ever been pointed out re: Carr comparisons.

[Ed Vette]

I will say this about David Carr. The year Houston replaced him with Matt Schaub, Houston's offense improved from 28th to 14th with the same personnel. Then they had a top-5 offense the next 3 years.

It's easy to blame everyone but the QB. The reality is that David Carr was a bad player. Matt Schaub took the same cast of characters Carr had and made them look good. You have to give Houston credit for moving on from Carr and switching to Schaub so the offense could finally prosper. Sometimes it really is the QBs fault.

But Doc, didn't Houston break David Carr?   

[Woody]

Say what you want about Jones at this point ....but the hard fact remains that the organization and  football different game from not that many years ago  are the also to blame.....back when Giants were pretty good from year to year and completive most years...the game has changed ...from players union rules , player safety rules, meaningless summer camps and preseason games ....a different type of player coming out of college and so on etc.etc.
To blame all of the woes of this team on a QB is not seeing the whole problem ....Football is a team game ...  more so than most sports. while the QB is a very very important part of a football team ...he is not the only reason teams win or lose.
Now I liked Eli and thought during a different era.,,, yes , the Coughlin years(rules and practice were much different then) He played well most of the time and really good when it matter the most during SB runs. But remember he finished his career with a just a win or two over 50 % winning record. 
and the last 7 or so years of his time with Giants was mediocre at best. In fact I think in the last 11 years...  The Giants have made playoffs just twice. Once with Eli and once with Jones.
While I am not comparing the QB's I am comparing the Giants organation then and now...the game seems to have past by the Maras as they continue to influence many decisions on this team. .. In my opinion holding back GM's decisions as well as coaching decisions.
Until the ownership of a team lets their football people make football decisions they think are best for the team...winning becomes a challenge more often than not.
looking at this team ? do you see ant leaders ? Maybe Barkley. But when the coach has six or seven captains ? really ?
Is the coach and GM allowed to look hard at their staff ? and make changes ?
Maybe they are .  not sure ... But this team is in trouble again and another high draft pick won't fix everything.

[Bob In PA]

Square peg, round hole. Just because he looks the part doesn't mean he was equipped for the role. Nice guy, but pretending he's the future because he says the right things despite being a habitual loser is ridiculous.

H-T: I would eagerly agree with your analysis, and have a lousy memory, but from I can recall the same coaches and football people supposedly told Gettleman et al. the same things about Jones as they did about Eli.  If true, then you can't limit your comment to only looking the part, IMO.  Bob

[H-Town G-Fan]

H-T: I would eagerly agree with your analysis, and have a lousy memory, but from I can recall the same coaches and football people supposedly told Gettleman et al. the same things about Jones as they did about Eli.  If true, then you can't limit your comment to only looking the part, IMO.  Bob

Eli Manning never had a losing season as a starting QB at Ole Miss. He was arguably QB #1 in the top of a draft that produced 3 Hall of Fame-caliber players (in addition to Rivers, Roethlisberger). He threw for 10,000 yards in college. Daniel Jones was a 0-star recruit who did nothing of note in college and was in contention for QB #2 in his draft with a guy whose addiction issues were so bad he is now no longer with us. Sorry, but I can't get on board with any comparison between the two.

[Bob In PA]

Eli Manning never had a losing season as a starting QB at Ole Miss. He was arguably QB #1 in the top of a draft that produced 3 Hall of Fame-caliber players (in addition to Rivers, Roethlisberger). He threw for 10,000 yards in college. Daniel Jones was a 0-star recruit who did nothing of note in college and was in contention for QB #2 in his draft with a guy whose addiction issues were so bad he is now no longer with us. Sorry, but I can't get on board with any comparison between the two.

H-T: All good points. I suppose all we can conclude is that they might have placed more value on the word of the coaches and other football people than on Jones' production in college.  A factor could have been the composition of the teams on which Jones played (Duke not exactly being a football powerhouse).  If so, then it's a lesson to be learned... better to take a guy from one of the professional college programs than from elsewhere (though as we both know a good number of truly elite NFL QB's have come from non-football-powerhouses). Bob

[TDToomer]

Eli Manning never had a losing season as a starting QB at Ole Miss. He was arguably QB #1 in the top of a draft that produced 3 Hall of Fame-caliber players (in addition to Rivers, Roethlisberger). He threw for 10,000 yards in college. Daniel Jones was a 0-star recruit who did nothing of note in college and was in contention for QB #2 in his draft with a guy whose addiction issues were so bad he is now no longer with us. Sorry, but I can't get on board with any comparison between the two.

Haskins was a drug addict?