Which Loss Was Most Telling

[Ed Vette]

Was it Dallas that showed how woefully unprepared this team was entering the season?

Was it the Bills, Raiders or Jets?

I believe it was against the Jets in a game they should have won if not just for the decision to play conservative and one dimensional, but to show how unprepared they were for a backup QB after having weeks to bring in a veteran, not knowing or understanding the condition of the kicker and calling the worst set of plays in overtime after taking the ball and not trusting their Defense.

All that aside, what were the common themes in each of the losses?

[T200]

I'm not laying the blame completely at the feet of Daboll/Kafka because the players still have to play and execute the game plan.

But... the game plan in the season opener was garbage, if they even had one. They did not adjust or adapt to anything that Dallas was doing defensively. Our offense played dead the entire game. This offense will more than likely set a franchise record for futility.

[Ed Vette]

I'm not laying the blame completely at the feet of Daboll/Kafka because the players still have to play and execute the game plan.

But... the game plan in the season opener was garbage, if they even had one. They did not adjust or adapt to anything that Dallas was doing defensively. Our offense played dead the entire game. This offense will more than likely set a franchise record for futility.

With all the criticism Jason Garrett received and even after bringing in Fredo Kitchens, their Offense generated 17.5 and 15 average points per game. This team under the QB and Offense Gurus has averaged 11. Just wrap your head around that for a minute. Then take out the one anomaly of the Cardinals game and it's a whopping 8.75.

[T200]

With all the criticism Jason Garrett received and even after bringing in Fredo Kitchens, their Offense generated 17.5 and 15 average points per game. This team under the QB and Offense Gurus has averaged 11. Just wrap your head around that for a minute. Then take out the one anomaly of the Cardinals game and it's a whopping 8.75.

I'm still stuck on less than 10 passing yards FOR AN ENTIRE GAME!!!!!     

[TDToomer]

With all the criticism Jason Garrett received and even after bringing in Fredo Kitchens, their Offense generated 17.5 and 15 average points per game. This team under the QB and Offense Gurus has averaged 11. Just wrap your head around that for a minute. Then take out the one anomaly of the Cardinals game and it's a whopping 8.75.

The 2023 is the worst offense I have ever seen from the Giants and that says a lot. Think about it. Dave Brown averaged more points per game in every season he started in.

[JT39]

The Dallas game was a huge red flag for me.

Totally unprepared and not ready to
Play.

[Uni]

Dallas game for sure. I had posted before the start of the season that the Cowboys game was the barometer of how well the Giants would do for the rest of the season. After the game I knew this was going to be a bumpy season, but nothing prepared me for what unfolded.

And it's not even halfway through

[Hadron]

Dallas was a disaster and the should've won the Jets game. Still, getting blown out by a Raiders team starting a fifth round rookie QB and within a week of firing the head coach? Pretty freaking bad.

Jones had Barkley, the defense had been playing well, and the offensive line had most of the guys back.

Simply put: Jones stunk. Even Pat Traina is done with him.

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/big-blue-plus/daniel-joness-play-confirms-hes-not-the-long-term-answer

[DaveBrown74]

For me it was the Seattle game. They had 11 days to prepare and it was truly a must-win, and they were at home, and they were just so inept. That was the game that really put the season to bed for me. The Dallas game was obviously a disaster but it also felt like a game that just spiraled out of control. Then we followed that one with a win. The loss in San Fran was a foregone conclusion and at least they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. At that point I was still holding out some hope, but I really felt the Seattle game (especially with the extra rest) had to be a strong performance. And it was the exact opposite. That game really defined the season for me.

[Philosophers]

Dallas - completely unprepared and showed weakest link in OL, right side of OL and Evan Neal.

[babywhales]

Dallas was beyond surprising. 

I expected a passionate, fired up team to build off last year and play with a purpose on their home field.  To be 100% unprepared when there was so much to play for was horrible.

and then there was the Raiders Game


Getting blown out in such a lopsided affair by an underachieving, down in the dumps franchise that just fired their coach after the loss to the Jets was very telling about what this team is. The Giants first 3 drives to star the game were a disgrace (turn over on downs, sacks to end up in 3rd and 27, and a 3 and out).  Jones comeback game with everything to play for, seeing TT handle the reality of the offense much better than he had been to date came out looking like crap again only to get knocked out.   No urgency, no will, no desire; just more horrible uninspired, passionless football from the leader on down.

Just horrible.   

I honestly thought the team looked half way decent vs buffalo and could turn the season around off that game despite the loss.

[Giant Obsession]

Very simply, the Eagles playoff game to end our season was a foreshadowing of everything we have seen this year.

We are so far behind the curves in talent and coaching it should make everyone shudder.

Quit thinking playoff competitive and start aiming for middle of the pack beg Dafore dreaming of beating the Philly and Dallas of this league.

Right now our rebuild Year 2 has completely stalled and even to some degree regressed.

[kartanoman]

Dallas game for sure. I had posted before the start of the season that the Cowboys game was the barometer of how well the Giants would do for the rest of the season. After the game I knew this was going to be a bumpy season, but nothing prepared me for what unfolded.

And it's not even halfway through

Not since the 1995 season opener (0-35) was a game more telling than 0-40.

Peace!

[UncannyGfan]

For me it was the Seattle game. They had 11 days to prepare and it was truly a must-win, and they were at home, and they were just so inept. That was the game that really put the season to bed for me. The Dallas game was obviously a disaster but it also felt like a game that just spiraled out of control. Then we followed that one with a win. The loss in San Fran was a foregone conclusion and at least they were still in the game in the fourth quarter. At that point I was still holding out some hope, but I really felt the Seattle game (especially with the extra rest) had to be a strong performance. And it was the exact opposite. That game really defined the season for me.

I agree with you entirely.  After that game it cut through my denial that the Giants are a bad football team.  The Dallas game was a red flag but with the shortened preseason and all the disastrous opening night games against Dallas in the past I gave them a mulligan.  After the first half of the AZ game, I thought wow this is going to be a long season but then they won and put me right back into denial.  The SF game echoed Dallas where it seemed like if they needed to pass the ball it was going to fail, to the point I wondered why should they bother? Was that feeling caused by them playing another great defense or their OL being bad or QB decisions or play calling or some combo of all?

After the Seattle game I felt the Giants could not win a game without Barkley and Thomas and once they returned, they needed to focus on keeping games close from clock eating running plays and give themselves a 50/50 chance in the 4th quarter.  It also had me reflect on last season and conclude Barkley was the reason for their success and Jones' contract extension.  Jones does well in a running system with a good deep ball late in games and depending on a great defense.  The team failed for a number of reasons when they put the offense on Jones to deliver.  When the Giants were in a passing situation, pre-snap it felt inevitable that the play would be an ugly sack, an awkward scramble, a throw short of the 1st down marker, or an interception.  The team seemed hopeless until Barkley returned. The season seemed lost and became more evaluating what was happening rather than playoff hopes after Seattle.

At least for the Bills, Washington, and Jets games I enjoyed watching the entire games up until the last few seconds.  I couldn't say that about any of preceding five games (AZ was not four quarters of thrilling football).  They were good games because they avoided placing themselves in obvious passing situations or would just run during them anyway.  It also gave us a chance to evaluate the team without Jones until Taylor got hurt (it's not fair to anyone to expect anything from Devito).

I'm now watching to see which players give their best under terrible circumstances and thinking about future seasons rather than any sort of playoff hopes this year.  I watch for the competitive spirit and people working together to put their best effort forward.  There are so many circumstances outside of our control but giving up is a choice.  Quitting is contagious and if the team quits I'll quit watching.  I don't think the team is far away from being competitive next season as it seems at the moment.

The Defense has played and can play at an elite level, how can they sustain an elite level for all of next season?  They have to cut down on their snap counts and rotate Dex more often and let their depth develop this season.  Dex is going to be under more pressure this season without Williams going forward.  Williams was a free agent anyway so hopefully they can find another DL with their newly acquired 2nd rounder to complement Dex.  With Dex's contract, a rookie is the way to go align beside him.  Re-signing Jackson or Mckinney in the off season is a big decision point.  I don't think they get lucky finding a starting outside CB after the first round but might get lucky on a safety so I'm leaning towards Jackson or another FA at CB.  Banks and Flot have been homeruns this year and this has to be the best linebacker play we've seen since their super bowl teams, right?  Ojulari's injuries were a bad draw (there were concerns over his knee that may have pushed him to the 2nd round and at that point was a gamble that didn't pan out).  Even if he was healthy he should have been in for passing situations only rather than when opposing offenses had 50/50 run or pass odds.  I think lack of depth at the outside position opposite Thibodeaux is why he lined up on the DL on first downs.     

Barkley can take on the full attention of a defense and single handily give the offense hope on any given drive.  Signing him gives the Giants a chance of being competitive in any game as long as the Defense remains elite and the QB doesn't turn the ball over.  They have to watch his snap count though.  Jones being a running quarterback with a good arm but having sustained two significant neck injuries and a torn ACL is obviously not the answer for the team next season.  I think they take the best available rookie QB and sign a veteran free agent QB whose play style most closely resembles the strengths of the rookie they select.  They'll need to add complementary players to Barkley such as more run block first TEs, good run blocking IOL, and another starting quality back to get his snap count much lower then it has been.  Hyatt and Robinson are good.  Maybe they can sign a possession type of outside WR to line up opposite of Hyatt and is a relatively great run blocker for the position?

In sum, the Giants were a legitimate playoff team last year that ran out of steam once the super high snap counts wore down their defense and Barkley ahead of a fresh Philly team.  They can get back to that state by sustaining the defense with a high draft pick IDL, a FA outside CB whose contract expires once Banks is eligible, and maybe some luck late in the draft with safeties and edge rushers.  They'll need an offense that can give them a rest, which a Barkley driven offense can do as long as he has another quality starting caliber RB teammate to shoulder the snap count and a couple of running blocking focused additions to IOL and TE.  A veteran QB can helm the ship until the rookie is ready.  They don't have to pretend to be the greatest show on turf next season, they just need to start winning ugly games again like they did in 2022.  They have most of the ingredients, they just need to return to the formula.  If they end up with a special QB, they can tailor the offense around his talents after next season when they'll have a better understanding of what types of players will be best complement him.             

FA: a #2 CB, Barkley, vet QB, a blocking TE, a #2/3 possession outside WR.  None of these moves will put a ton of pressure on the cap.  Barkley won't be cheap, but a very expensive RB is going to be much cheaper than a very expensive WR contract and probably not much more than his current annual rate.  The CB and WR additions can be towards then end of their careers rather than in their primes and TEs are a low-cost FA position.  The QB would be a post-draft signing, which aren't typically high priced in a bidding battle. 

Draft:
Rd 1 QB
Rd 2 IDL, OL
Rd 3 RB
Rd 4 TE or S
Rd 5-7 hope they get lucky

I think the above pathway can get them back to the playoffs next season and give their rookie QB a good situation to develop in. 




           

[TDToomer]

Not since the 1995 season opener (0-35) was a game more telling than 0-40.

Peace!

So many similarities. The Giants were kind of expected to build off their 9-7 1994 team that would have made the playoffs under todays format with Brown taking the next step at QB. With Hershel Walker brought in and Wheatley drafted in the first round to complement Hampton some predicted the Giants would lead the NFL in rushing. Phil Simms number was retired that game. It was so deflating. I think Emmett Smith took the very first play of the game to the house.