QB pressure rate vs time to pressure

[JT39]

If players are trying harder based off whos QBing.... they should be cut immediately. That is about as unprofessional as an individual can be.

And I doubt this is true anyways, since Jones has been nothing but a great teammate and a standup individual.

[kingm56]

If players are trying harder based off whos QBing.... they should be cut immediately. That is about as unprofessional as an individual can be.

And I doubt this is true anyways, since Jones has been nothing but a great teammate and a standup individual.

Have you considered the human factor?  Jaylen Hyatt has been a true professional; however, who you do you believe he prefers to play with...A QB who provides him with an opportunity to demonstrate his deep receiving skills, or a really nice guy who rarely throws him the ball?  Do you think a 21-year old will try just a bit harder for the former, vice the latter? 

[uconnjack8]

Offensive linemen respond to positive feedback

This chart shows Tommy is getting time to pass
perhaps thats because the linemen try a bit harder for a QB they feel will complete a decent pass most of the time

Why break your back for a QB who dumps it off 60% of the time

Same for Rushing.  Barkley is having a better statistical year than I figured he would at 4.2 YPC....normally he is 3.4 guy.
Again the Oline is helping him find real holes and creases

Human nature- Success breeds Success

This isn't the subject of the discussion, but where did you get that number?  His avg for his career is 4.4 ypc.  He had one year, 2021 that was below 4 ypc. 


As for the OP - There are a bunch of factors that can be contributing to the increased time to through and pressure rate diminishing. Hard for me to look at this and point at one thing.  If you follow the QBs its gotten better over the course of the year.  Is that the OL improving?  QBs making better adjustments at the line? Play calling?  Competition?

I am really surprised by the chart.  Devito has been getting pummeled but it shows he has more time and gets pressured less?

[JT39]

Have you considered the human factor?  Jaylen Hyatt has been a true professional; however, who you do you believe he prefers to play with...A QB who provides him with an opportunity to demonstrate his deep receiving skills, or a really nice guy who rarely throws him the ball?  Do you think a 21-year old will try just a bit harder for the former, vice the latter? 

It does not matter. If you are really insisting that players arent trying as hard for Jones - thats a huge problem.

As regards to Hyatt, the numbers show his playing time has increased once Jones got hurt. And against Raiders - Jones took multiple deep hots to him - albeit unsuccessfully.

Maybe some times we can admit that playing guys like Ezeudu, McKathean, Mayfield, and some of the others signed off other teams practice squads were just really bad at their jobs. Its not to excuse Jones performance this year. He has been bad as well. Its can be a lot of things.

I mean I think Andrew Thomas is a better LT than Ezedu and Jones pretty much didnt have Thomas all year. Lets put it this way. When Taylor started against Buffalo - MNF showed their PFF rankings. The 5 starters were either last or next to last in positional rankings. Thats on them for not doing their jobs.

[MightyGiants]

I find the disconnect sort of interesting.

Some fans want to blame DJ for the terrible conditions he faced.

Then I hear Carl Banks on his podcast saying the offensive line has greatly improved during the season because there was a drastic reduction in free rushers allowed  (due to fewer mistakes being made by linemen).

My own view is that Banks' comments make more sense and certainly do a better job explaining things.  The idea that a QB who went to Duke and has been praised for his smarts and work ethic would struggle reading defenses pre-snap seems pretty far-fetched.

[katkavage]

I find the disconnect sort of interesting.

Some fans want to blame DJ for the terrible conditions he faced.

Then I hear Carl Banks on his podcast saying the offensive line has greatly improved during the season because there was a drastic reduction in free rushers allowed  (due to fewer mistakes being made by linemen).

My own view is that Banks' comments make more sense and certainly do a better job explaining things.  The idea that a QB who went to Duke and has been praised for his smarts and work ethic would struggle reading defenses pre-snap seems pretty far-fetched.

What? Duke? Smarts? Come on. I hope you know better than that, MG. No one is doubting DJ's intelligence. And what school you went to has nothing to do with your football intelligence. Since he has been in the league, Jones has not displayed the instincts and decision-making, no matter how brilliant a mind he has, that elite or even franchise QBs possess. Duke, Harvard, Stanford can't teach what Hurts or Mahomes or so many others know instinctively.

[Philosophers]

i didn't draw any conclusion other than to say this metric shouldn't be viewed in a vacuum.  Moreover, pressure doesn't equate to bad QB play, as demonstrated by Burrow, Lawerence, Herbert, Purdy, etc.  Again, fans overcomplicate the simplistic; the OL started playing better when a different QB was inserted, no matter how you parse the data....

When you say pressure doesn't equate to bad QB play, as demonstrated by Burrow, Lawrence, Herbert, Purdy, etc., what are you basing that on, sacks say in a season?

[Ed Vette]

The Pass Protection has improved even though Tommy is getting sacked. He's holding the ball longer and then doesn't throw it away. He's had some decent pockets.

The difference from my perspective between DJ and Tommy is that DJ is a sad sack with no performance or sideline personality. When DJ screws up or it's a bad play, he sits alone on the bench sulking. He doesn't have a short memory. I can only imagine what goes on in the huddle. Does that mean the players try harder for Tommy? No. It's Tommy's confidence and enthusiasm that becomes contagious and they play better because of it. A lot of this game and btw, our own success is about confidence and attitude.

[MightyGiants]

What? Duke? Smarts? Come on. I hope you know better than that, MG. No one is doubting DJ's intelligence. And what school you went to has nothing to do with your football intelligence. Since he has been in the league, Jones has not displayed the instincts and decision-making, no matter how brilliant a mind he has, that elite or even franchise QBs possess. Duke, Harvard, Stanford can't teach what Hurts or Mahomes or so many others know instinctively.

Now, I am seeing some of the disconnect.  You ignored an important qualifier I used, "pre-snap."  While there has been debate over Jones' "post-snap" processing and decision-making, there has been nothing to suggest there is a pre-snap issue.  Pre-snap is about film work and general intelligence.  It's about seeing what is on the field in front of you with enough time to process.  Post-snap things move fast and that takes different skills and abilities to process quickly and correctly.

Of course, the other issue is that those trying to blame Jones seem to be forgetting how many blown-blocking assignments we all witnessed at the beginning of the season in terms of picking up stunts and twists.  Those are not the QB's fault, that is 100% on the O-line.

[MightyGiants]

When you say pressure doesn't equate to bad QB play, as demonstrated by Burrow, Lawrence, Herbert, Purdy, etc., what are you basing that on, sacks say in a season?

It's odd how some people will cite exceptions to create rules.  99% of the time, QB play is negatively impacted by pressure (as Wink says, pressure breaks pipes).  It truly astonishes me that some fans claim pressure doesn't cause problems for a QB.  Any proper review of stats and metrics will clearly demonstrate that isn't the case.

[Doc16LT56]

What? Duke? Smarts? Come on. I hope you know better than that, MG. No one is doubting DJ's intelligence. And what school you went to has nothing to do with your football intelligence. Since he has been in the league, Jones has not displayed the instincts and decision-making, no matter how brilliant a mind he has, that elite or even franchise QBs possess. Duke, Harvard, Stanford can't teach what Hurts or Mahomes or so many others know instinctively.

Exactly. There is a reason the Air Force isn't just recruiting a bunch of Harvard Law School graduates to pilot their fighter jets. It's a completely different type of intelligence needed combined with a physical skill set and mental disposition that very few people have. You wouldn't say, "this kid wrote an amazing thesis paper, so he should be an amazing pilot."

Even pre-snap, there is a unique psychology needed to make split second assessments and adjustments. It has nothing to do with your classroom academics.

[MightyGiants]

Even pre-snap, there is a unique psychology needed to make split second assessments and adjustments. It has nothing to do with your classroom academics.

As I said, I don't agree with this claim.  There is a reason QBs, as a group, have the highest Wonderlic grades.

[BluesCruz]

There is no doubt Tommy is getting cleaner pockets.....there have been plays where he "has all day" but no one is open.  I cannot recall Jones getting ANY clean pockets....always under siege.

Tommys sacks are his "thing"....he will wait until the last possible microsecond to wait for an open target....he trades sacks for yards.  He has said this in interviews...he says there is a fine line between a last second pass and taking the sack.  He prefers not to be distracted by when and where he can throw it away. I think over time he will learn to get rid of the ball.  Eli had this same mode of operation.   The problem with Tommy taking sacks is the injury factor but so far he seems very durable.

Human Nature creates a feedback loop....you show me its worth my while and I will block ferociously

You show me you can advance the ball and I will open the hole you need

I agree lineman should go all out on every play but they do not

[Doc16LT56]

There are very intelligent and accomplished people on this board who have to watch a game multiple times in order to have a good understanding of what happened. Even veteran head coaches often say they need to go back to watch the tape before they can comment on individual plays. It's not that every one of them is lacking in intelligence. It's that there is an enormous amount of information to consume and presumably infinite ways to interpret that information.

Imagine the pressure of lining up at QB in a stadium in front of thousands, with millions more watching on TV. You know that everything you do will end up being parsed and studied and picked apart. The pressure is always there. Then within a matter of seconds you have to read a defense that was designed to fool you, identify potential blitzers, shift protection if needed, identify coverage, look for gaps or weaknesses, adjust the play if needed, look for anyone who is cheating in any direction while considering down, distance, score, tendencies from film, experience gained from all previous plays so far, and any other relevant factors, and do it all in a way that the 10 men around you truly believe you are worthy of following.

If you're really good you might consider the personnel you're going up against. Is the free safety hiding a sore ankle? Is the middle linebacker easily fooled by the play fake? How far back do I anticipate the All Pro nose guard pushing my journey man center in the first 2 seconds?

You have to do this when your coach has been screaming in your ear, and when three different people have just given you advice on what the defense is doing. And you understand that the 11 players across from you are motivated to hurt you and humiliate you.

This is somewhat different than the intelligence needed to sit at a desk and write a complicated algorithm with a mid-day Thursday deadline. Do people here really understand how difficult the QB position is? It's not a test of academic intelligence?

[kartanoman]

There are very intelligent and accomplished people on this board who have to watch a game multiple times in order to have a good understanding of what happened. Even veteran head coaches often say they need to go back to watch the tape before they can comment on individual plays. It's not that every one of them is lacking in intelligence. It's that there is an enormous amount of information to consume and presumably infinite ways to interpret that information.

Imagine the pressure of lining up at QB in a stadium in front of thousands, with millions more watching on TV. You know that everything you do will end up being parsed and studied and picked apart. The pressure is always there. Then within a matter of seconds you have to read a defense that was designed to fool you, identify potential blitzers, shift protection if needed, identify coverage, look for gaps or weaknesses, adjust the play if needed, look for anyone who is cheating in any direction while considering down, distance, score, tendencies from film, experience gained from all previous plays so far, and any other relevant factors, and do it all in a way that the 10 men around you truly believe you are worthy of following.

If you're really good you might consider the personnel you're going up against. Is the free safety hiding a sore ankle? Is the middle linebacker easily fooled by the play fake? How far back do I anticipate the All Pro nose guard pushing my journey man center in the first 2 seconds?

You have to do this when your coach has been screaming in your ear, and when three different people have just given you advice on what the defense is doing. And you understand that the 11 players across from you are motivated to hurt you and humiliate you.

This is somewhat different than the intelligence needed to sit at a desk and write a complicated algorithm with a mid-day Thursday deadline. Do people here really understand how difficult the QB position is? It's not a test of academic intelligence?

Is this why Quarterback get paid along the line of CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Your eloquent post offers compelling reasons why that might be the case.

Well done! I enjoyed the read.

Peace!