If we’re sitting at #7 and the draft shakes out

[DaveBrown74]

For you guys who are hell-bent on a new QB at any cost, I suspect you will be very unhappy on draft day. Only my opinion, but I believe the front office and coaching staff like DJ a whole lot more than some fans. The Giants don't have a lot of draft capital to move forward, and even more unlikely to spend it to move for a player to replace the player they appear to be fully committed

I could be wrong...been wrong many times...but I believe Schoen/Daboll believe in DJ for the long haul and have no intentions of getting into a bidding war in order to shoot themselves in the foot at the expense of the rest of the team. Smart GMs and HCs build a team, fans collect football cards and zero in on individual star players. But this game is not an individual sport that requires a collection of stars. It's all about chemistry, coaching, and training that builds a good team. Teamwork always beats letting individual stars run loose

To be abundantly clear, and just speaking for myself, I am only "hell-bent" on drafting a QB if our front office legitimately believes said prospect has a strong chance of being a top end starter in this league. Otherwise I have no interest. I have said this over and over again in multiple threads. So it's only "at all costs" if Schoen and his team have done extensive due diligence, far and beyond what even the most astute fans are capable of, and the opportunity to actually get said QB is possible.

So actually, I won't be "very unhappy" if we don't draft a QB, because I will take that to mean our front office and scouts were not fully sold on whoever was available. Or it will mean that one wasn't available even if we liked him, as there is no guarantee any of these teams will want to trade.

What would make me unhappy is if we are very high on a QB and either don't trade for him, either because Mara gave it the kibosh, or we got sticker shock about the price and can't pull the trigger. But most likely we won't have any way of knowing any of that for sure. If Schoen wanted to do it but Mara wouldn't let him, that is not going to be public info.

[DaveBrown74]

For you guys who are hell-bent on a new QB at any cost, I suspect you will be very unhappy on draft day. Only my opinion, but I believe the front office and coaching staff like DJ a whole lot more than some fans. The Giants don't have a lot of draft capital to move forward, and even more unlikely to spend it to move for a player to replace the player they appear to be fully committed

I could be wrong...been wrong many times...but I believe Schoen/Daboll believe in DJ for the long haul and have no intentions of getting into a bidding war in order to shoot themselves in the foot at the expense of the rest of the team. Smart GMs and HCs build a team, fans collect football cards and zero in on individual star players. But this game is not an individual sport that requires a collection of stars. It's all about chemistry, coaching, and training that builds a good team. Teamwork always beats letting individual stars run loose

BTW, wanting to improve at the most important position in the sport, where we have been nothing short of terrible for several years now, is not "collecting football cards." It's having the best interests of the team at heart. We have been very bad at QB for years now. Yes, there are numerous other problems on this team. That goes without saying. But QB is the single most important position, and we have not been good enough there.

And even if you're right that Mara and Daboll believe in DJ long term, there is no way that any sane adult believes in his durability long term. The guy has had two serious neck injuries, an ACL, at least one concussion, multiple other injuries, and has missed a ton of games already, and he's only 26. Moreover the front office structured his contract in a way that allows them to pivot away from him more quickly than other big second QB contracts being given out allow teams to do.

So while I won't purport to know what is deep inside Schoen and Daboll's minds, I can at least observe and process indisputable facts. The first being that Jones is a brittle player, and that has been amply demonstrated over a meaningful sample size. The second is that his contract is set up with a two year emergency out and an easy three year out.

If you are correct that Schoen and Daboll believe in Jones long term, you'll see them restructure his contract in this offseason by alleviating the $47mmm cap hit that he is going to cost this team in 2024. If they believe in him long term they'll add future years and spread that hit out. If they don't do that, I would dispute the claim.

[Ed Vette]

To be abundantly clear, and just speaking for myself, I am only "hell-bent" on drafting a QB if our front office legitimately believes said prospect has a strong chance of being a top end starter in this league. Otherwise I have no interest. I have said this over and over again in multiple threads. So it's only "at all costs" if Schoen and his team have done extensive due diligence, far and beyond what even the most astute fans are capable of, and the opportunity to actually get said QB is possible.

So actually, I won't be "very unhappy" if we don't draft a QB, because I will take that to mean our front office and scouts were not fully sold on whoever was available. Or it will mean that one wasn't available even if we liked him, as there is no guarantee any of these teams will want to trade.

What would make me unhappy is if we are very high on a QB and either don't trade for him, either because Mara gave it the kibosh, or we got sticker shock about the price and can't pull the trigger. But most likely we won't have any way of knowing any of that for sure. If Schoen wanted to do it but Mara wouldn't let him, that is not going to be public info.

I don't believe Schoen would draft a QB without 100% belief in him. He already has DJ under contract. I also don't see Mara having to bless the pick, who knows jack squat about QBs in this draft.

[DaveBrown74]

I don't believe Schoen would draft a QB without 100% belief in him. He already has DJ under contract. I also don't see Mara having to bless the pick, who knows jack squat about QBs in this draft.

If they don't draft a QB, do you think they'll restructure Jones' contract to get that 2024 cap hit down and lock themselves in for more years?

[Ed Vette]

If they don't draft a QB, do you think they'll restructure Jones' contract to get that 2024 cap hit down and lock themselves in for more years?

I don't.

[Philosophers]

If we get better OL pass blocking AND average QB play, I think we are at least a 0.500 team.  We won't get average QB play with an OL giving up likely 80 sacks in 17 games.  No way.  Do folks here even realize how high 80 sacks are over 17 games?  How many times can you find 70+ sacks over 16 games in NFL history?

I would be more worried about our QB play of he were getting sacked say 45 times in a season (still fairly high) but at 80, the entire OL should be forfeiting as that is close to unprecedented.

[DaveBrown74]

If we get better OL pass blocking AND average QB play, I think we are at least a 0.500 team.  We won't get average QB play with an OL giving up likely 80 sacks in 17 games.  No way.  Do folks here even realize how high 80 sacks are over 17 games?  How many times can you find 70+ sacks over 16 games in NFL history?

I would be more worried about our QB play of he were getting sacked say 45 times in a season (still fairly high) but at 80, the entire OL should be forfeiting as that is close to unprecedented.

We got collectively better QB play from our QB2 and QB3 behind the same line than we did from our QB1. I personally find that very problematic. Moreover the QB1 simply cannot stay on the field. He routinely sustains very serious injuries. It has happened in four out of his five years as a pro. I find that very problematic as well.

I fully agree that the line needs to be addressed (we have been saying this for a decade), but that doesn't automatically mean you don't take a QB in the first round. We have two second round picks and a day three pick. Those are all good spots to draft O linemen, and good O linemen can also be found on day three.

[Jclayton92]

We got collectively better QB play from our QB2 and QB3 behind the same line than we did from our QB1. I personally find that very problematic. Moreover the QB1 simply cannot stay on the field. He routinely sustains very serious injuries. It has happened in four out of his five years as a pro. I find that very problematic as well.

I fully agree that the line needs to be addressed (we have been saying this for a decade), but that doesn't automatically mean you don't take a QB in the first round. We have two second round picks and a day three pick. Those are all good spots to draft O linemen, and good O linemen can also be found on day three.

I think a lot of fans think because people want a new Qb that they don't think the Oline Is an issue. Obviously the oline is an issue with all the injuries etc that I think they fix in FA. The problem with the Oline doesn't change the fact that there is also a huge glaring problem at Qb.

I just don't see how anyone could be sold on any Qb on the roster currently. Jones has consistently been a below average Qb for his duration as a Giant. I mean look at Sam Howell, Washington is likely going to replace him in the draft and in his first full year starting is going to finish with more passing yards and passing Tds than Jones has ever had in a season. Last year for Jones "magical year" he basically had the same passing product that Davis Mills had, who the Texans replaced with Stroud. That's absolutely embarrassing that the fanbase is ok with the production we've had the past 5 years at Qb.

[andrew_nyGiants]

IMVHO the Jones contract extension has the stink of Mara meddling all over it.

Gun to their heads, I believe Schoen and Daboll admit as much.

This franchise has struggled for 10 years because various front office and coaching staffs have never been handed the baton with ownership blessing.

"It's your team, keep me in the loop on the Financial's and what you need...go build me a winner"

A new QB in the 1st few days of the '24 draft, combined with some key coaching and medical staff changes, will signal to me that Mara is finally ready to concede the error of his ways.


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[DaveBrown74]

IMVHO the Jones contract extension has the stink of Mara meddling all over it.

https://twitter.com/SmoothZCBV/status/1739152026511049169

[andrew_nyGiants]

https://twitter.com/SmoothZCBV/status/1739152026511049169

LOL! Good one!


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[katkavage]

The Oline needs help but you can draft a QB in the first round and easily fortify the line with later picks and free agency.

[Jclayton92]

The Oline needs help but you can draft a QB in the first round and easily fortify the line with later picks and free agency.

I agree, the two issues can be solved at the same time, it shouldnt be a one or the other situation. Plus I think the Giants need plug and play high level starters now. They don't currently have the luxury to draft a 5th round guy and give him time to acclimate. They need bodies now that can produce at least above average now.

[andrew_nyGiants]

I agree, the two issues can be solved at the same time, it shouldnt be a one or the other situation. Plus I think the Giants need plug and play high level starters now. They don't currently have the luxury to draft a 5th round guy and give him time to acclimate. They need bodies now that can produce at least above average now.

I'll take it a step further RE the OL:

I'm not 100% that there's not enough on the roster. Bring in a legit OL coach and let's see what we have.


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[Philosophers]

I think a lot of fans think because people want a new Qb that they don't think the Oline Is an issue. Obviously the oline is an issue with all the injuries etc that I think they fix in FA. The problem with the Oline doesn't change the fact that there is also a huge glaring problem at Qb.

I just don't see how anyone could be sold on any Qb on the roster currently. Jones has consistently been a below average Qb for his duration as a Giant. I mean look at Sam Howell, Washington is likely going to replace him in the draft and in his first full year starting is going to finish with more passing yards and passing Tds than Jones has ever had in a season. Last year for Jones "magical year" he basically had the same passing product that Davis Mills had, who the Texans replaced with Stroud. That's absolutely embarrassing that the fanbase is ok with the production we've had the past 5 years at Qb.

No what I am saying is feel free to invest in a QB but you wont get average play behind that existing OL.  It has to be addressed.