Can a Conservative team like the Giants survive in the modern era

[BluesCruz]

Emminating down from the Mara box is an air of take no chances.
on plays or personnel decisions

I recall watching the Lions try 3 reverses on jetsweeps in one continuous set of 3 downs this year. Finally on the last one it went for a 1st down
 
I remember thinking to myself the Giants would never ever do that

The old days of a direct snap to Gary Reasons on a fake punt are gone.  Never to return under this owner.

His father Wellington was more apt to "let them play"

John Mara needs to bring in a "George Young" to run all football decisions.  Maybe once again the league needs to step in to save the franchise or I'm beginning to think there will be no dominant Giants teams again in my lifetime

Maybe Bill Belichick will come in and fill that role?  Any thoughts on this fundamental question.

Im a firm believer success emminates from the top.  Look at Musk for instance.  Everything he touches he drives to gold
Its no accident he became the worlds richest man.  He demands success from his teams.

[katkavage]

Emminating down from the Mara box is an air of take no chances.
on plays or personnel decisions

I recall watching the Lions try 3 reverses on jetsweeps in one continuous set of 3 downs this year. Finally on the last one it went for a 1st down
 
I remember thinking to myself the Giants would never ever do that

The old days of a direct snap to Gary Reasons on a fake punt are gone.  Never to return under this owner.

His father Wellington was more apt to "let them play"

John Mara needs to bring in a "George Young" to run all football decisions.  Maybe once again the league needs to step in to save the franchise or I'm beginning to think there will be no dominant Giants teams again in my lifetime

Maybe Bill Belichick will come in and fill that role?  Any thoughts on this fundamental question.

Im a firm believer success emminates from the top.  Look at Musk for instance.  Everything he touches he drives to gold
Its no accident he became the worlds richest man.  He demands success from his teams.

Tell us something we don't know.

[DaveBrown74]

We have had the Belichick discussion before, so I won't repeat myself beyond just saying very simply that he's not coming here. Certainly not in 2024. We're not firing Schoen and Daboll, and Belichick is clearly going to another team after this season. Moreover Belichick will be 72 at the start of training camp next year. He is nearing the end of his career. George Young took over as Giants' GM before his 50th birthday. I'd forget about Belichick as far as our team goes. He will not, and frankly is not, the answer.

Is the team too conservative? In general, yes. We are slow to adapt to modern trends and often find ourselves at a competitive disadvantage as a result of that. I had thought that Joe Schoen and Daboll would collectively be a good antidote to this issue, and I still think they probably are, but that remains to be seen as this year has obviously not gone well at all, and the decision to re-sign Jones (rather than tag him or try to get him cheaper by letting the realities of his value be determined by the open market) now looks like a pretty bad one in hindsight. I still think we have better people running the team now than at any other time in the post-Coughlin era, so I am choosing to remain optimistic. How we handle this next offseason (in particular the draft) will speak volumes to me.

[BluesCruz]

We have had the Belichick discussion before, so I won't repeat myself beyond just saying very simply that he's not coming here. Certainly not in 2024. We're not firing Schoen and Daboll, and Belichick is clearly going to another team after this season. Moreover Belichick will be 72 at the start of training camp next year. He is nearing the end of his career. George Young took over as Giants' GM before his 50th birthday. I'd forget about Belichick as far as our team goes. He will not, and frankly is not, the answer.

Is the team too conservative? In general, yes. We are slow to adapt to modern trends and often find ourselves at a competitive disadvantage as a result of that. I had thought that Joe Schoen and Daboll would collectively be a good antidote to this issue, and I still think they probably are, but that remains to be seen as this year has obviously not gone well at all, and the decision to re-sign Jones (rather than tag him or try to get him cheaper by letting the realities of his value be determined by the open market) now looks like a pretty bad one in hindsight. I still think we have better people running the team now than at any other time in the post-Coughlin era, so I am choosing to remain optimistic. How we handle this next offseason (in particular the draft) will speak volumes to me.

Do you think the Jones decision was Mara's?  I do

[DaveBrown74]

Do you think the Jones decision was Mara's?  I do

I'm not sure. I think it would be naive (and incorrect) of me to say he had nothing to do with it, but I think we need to remember that Joe Schoen is not Dave Gettleman. Schoen was considered the top GM prospect in the league when we hired him, and he would have very easily gotten a GM job elsewhere if we hadn't hired him or he didn't want the job with us. In other words, he didn't "need" the job from the Giants, and I think if he felt that taking it meant he'd have to become a sycophant to Mara, he would have passed.

So short answer is I think Mara exerted some influence, but I don't think it was singularly his decision. I think if Mara were the sole decision maker we would have exercised Jones' fifth year option back in the 2022 offseason, and I also think we probably would have gotten the deal done with Barkley last spring.

So I think he's part of the process and does have some influence, but I don't think Schoen just rolls over and does what he is told on some of these bigger decisions the way Gettleman did.

[uconnjack8]

Steelers are run by owners just as conservative as the Giants.

[katkavage]

Steelers are run by owners just as conservative as the Giants.

You can be conservative and smart or conservative and dumb. Steelers are the former, Giants the latter.

[uconnjack8]

Yeah Musk really turned Twitter around s/

[BluesCruz]

Steelers are run by owners just as conservative as the Giants.

historically maybe but Mike is his own man

i also dont think Chuck Knoll was dancing to another mans drummer

Cowher neither

so no this argument seems a bit off  plus they have enjoyed dominance and performance we can only sit and envy

they never seem to have a bad year

[katkavage]

Yeah Musk really turned Twitter around s/

Smart guys think they know it all.

[BluesCruz]

Yeah Musk really turned Twitter around s/

Well true but he bought Twitter to re-create Paypal and Amazon
he has not finished the project.  Cant imagine this guys multi-processing abilities

[uconnjack8]

Well true but he bought Twitter to re-create Paypal and Amazon
he has not finished the project.  Cant imagine this guys multi-processing abilities

That's not why he bought it.

[uconnjack8]

Smart guys think they know it all.

Exactly.  I think he is visionary when it comes to his cars, not so much elsewhere.  Even the car company is at risk with a recall and no actual solution available.  And bigger companies moving in to his space. 

It's nice to have the backing of a rich dad to get started too.

[katkavage]

That's not why he bought it.

He's killed Twitter.

[BluesCruz]

That's not why he bought it.

Actually it is.  He always regretted having to sell his stake in PayPal to fund Tesla.

They say you can never go home again.  We will see

Too bad he does not own the Giants

I doubt he has much time for sports but I also doubt we would be in this dilemna if he did

Barkley #2, Jones #6???  I always suspected Gettleman might have still been a Patriots fan sent to destroy us

That Boston accent is a dead give away