Can a Conservative team like the Giants survive in the modern era

[uconnjack8]

Actually it is.  He always regretted having to sell his stake in PayPal to fund Tesla.

They say you can never go home again.  We will see

Too bad he does not own the Giants

I doubt he has much time for sports but I also doubt we would be in this dilemna if he did

Barkley #2, Jones #6???  I always suspected Gettleman might have still been a Patriots fan sent to destroy us

That Boston accent is a dead give away

Might be the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum. 


Can you list a source for the twitter buyout?  I have seen that reason no where I have looked.  Even Musk himself has not mentioned that.

[DaveBrown74]

Steelers are run by owners just as conservative as the Giants.

Yup. And I would argue that, while they haven't embarrassed themselves the way we have in recent years, they haven't been remotely championship caliber for a while now. They have had old school, stodgy types in the coordinator positions for a while now, and that has hurt them. I think their scouts are way better than ours are though, and that is why they've avoided sinking to the depths that we have. Their day two and day three picks have been much better than ours for the past decade or so.

[DaveBrown74]

Just out of curiosity, why are there multiple posts debating the strengths and weaknesses of Elon Musk in a thread about whether the Giants are too conservative of a football team?

[uconnjack8]

Yup. And I would argue that, while they haven't embarrassed themselves the way we have in recent years, they haven't been remotely championship caliber for a while now. They have had old school, stodgy types in the coordinator positions for a while now, and that has hurt them. I think their scouts are way better than ours are though, and that is why they've avoided sinking to the depths that we have. Their day two and day three picks have been much better than ours for the past decade or so.

I guess I would trade places with the Steelers given they havent had a losing record since 2003.

[uconnjack8]

Just out of curiosity, why are there multiple posts debating the strengths and weaknesses of Elon Musk in a thread about whether the Giants are too conservative of a football team?

He mentioned Musk in the post as measuring stick of demanding excellence

[DaveBrown74]

I guess I would trade places with the Steelers given they havent had a losing record since 2003.

Obviously. I wasn't saying we're better or even close to equal, and I highlighted what I believe to be one of the main reasons why that's the case. But they have been a good-but-not-great team for a long while now. It's been quite a long time since they have been a team anyone believed to have a shot at going very deep into the postseason.

To me, "conservative" in the context I believe it is being used in this thread means risk-averse and somewhat old school in approach. While that approach has its merits, it is hard to have a real competitive advantage with that approach against teams that are much more aggressive in their approaches, like the Eagles and Rams.

My personal view is that you ideally want a mixture of the two. I wouldn't want to be all the way to one side or the other. But to stubbornly reject all the modernized ways of thinking about the game and stick to the older school approaches (ie Dave Gettleman's attitude) is a surefire way to cut yourself off at the knees and cap yourself at perpetual mediocrity in this league.

[Jclayton92]

Do you think the Jones decision was Mara's?  I do

The question I have is what other option did the organization have available after making it to the playoffs? If they would have dumped Jones without even offering him then who would have been our Qb 1? Also if they would have dumped Jones without giving him this year to fail there would have been a ton furious that they didn't bring Jones back. It was a lose/lose situation that they made the best of with the two year out.

And I think Jones is a horrible Qb, and I still think it was what they had to do. Yes they could have brought in Mayfield but there was a huge portion of the fan base that were ride or die Jones fans, and until they saw him failing again were never going to acknowledge that we needed someone else.

[BluesCruz]

The question I have is what other option did the organization have available after making it to the playoffs? If they would have dumped Jones without even offering him then who would have been our Qb 1? Also if they would have dumped Jones without giving him this year to fail there would have been a ton furious that they didn't bring Jones back. It was a lose/lose situation that they made the best of with the two year out.

And I think Jones is a horrible Qb, and I still think it was what they had to do. Yes they could have brought in Mayfield but there was a huge portion of the fan base that were ride or die Jones fans, and until they saw him failing again were never going to acknowledge that we needed someone else.

you make a lot of good points and only a team like the Giants makes personnel decisions based upon what the fans think

its ludicrous but with the Giants its real

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when Schoen and Daboll talked this out. 

I assume they knew that Jones was not the ticket to the SB and
he had zero upside but they folded and took the "safe" route

Now the fans have to blame themselves (me included)

[jgrangers2]

The question I have is what other option did the organization have available after making it to the playoffs? If they would have dumped Jones without even offering him then who would have been our Qb 1? Also if they would have dumped Jones without giving him this year to fail there would have been a ton furious that they didn't bring Jones back. It was a lose/lose situation that they made the best of with the two year out.

And I think Jones is a horrible Qb, and I still think it was what they had to do. Yes they could have brought in Mayfield but there was a huge portion of the fan base that were ride or die Jones fans, and until they saw him failing again were never going to acknowledge that we needed someone else.

Last year put them in QB no man's land. Ended up drafting way too low to get the top guys or even think about moving up. I don't know if they HAD to re-sign Jones but I think simply letting him go after winning 9 games and a playoff game would have looked terrible optically but may have been the prudent move. That said, we all know he wasn't getting close to that contract from anyone else. I also didn't mind the contract since it gave us an out after 2024 and allowed us to start the process of finding our next QB after 2023 if this year went sideways.

[andrew_nyGiants]

Steelers are run by owners just as conservative as the Giants.

The difference is the Steelers ownership doesn't meddle. They assign qualified people to run the football operation and stay out of their way.

That's in large part why they've had the lowest HC turnover in the entire history of the league.


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[kartanoman]

Just out of curiosity, why are there multiple posts debating the strengths and weaknesses of Elon Musk in a thread about whether the Giants are too conservative of a football team?

I agree. Especial

He mentioned Musk in the post as measuring stick of demanding excellence

Excellence compared to whom? Why don't we poll the folks of Boca Chica, TX to see how excellent they believe Musk and his SpaceX space port is working out for that community, all the Federal Regulations he's thumbed his nose at, and the environmental disasters which now exist in the region. All this, not to mention the local inhabitants whose lives have been impacted by the noise and/or being forced to sell.

But what's a little environmental stuff, a few families having to move for building a space constellation so every azimuth and elevation on planet Earth has internet access. What's making a mess on our Earth compared to making a mess in our Low Earth Orbit space, right?

 

Peace!

[Jclayton92]

you make a lot of good points and only a team like the Giants makes personnel decisions based upon what the fans think

its ludicrous but with the Giants its real

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when Schoen and Daboll talked this out. 

I assume they knew that Jones was not the ticket to the SB and
he had zero upside but they folded and took the "safe" route

Now the fans have to blame themselves (me included)

You didn't answer the question, after making the playoffs last year, and having virtually the same team plus pieces added what other option did they have at Qb besides Jones? They picked to late to draft anyone, there wasn't any Big time FA? So what would have been the correct move since this was the wrong move in your opinion?

[Painter]

Before we start indulging our personal conceits whether it involves an amateur banalyses or a meander down the back corridors of logic, we should be aware of and appreciate no less than the following:

1.Even with the stuttering reflex that was Gettleman, the Giant are notably a less conservative organization today than at any time in the 37 years that it was in the iron grip of its HOF Owner, Wellington Mara which more or less ended in 1979 when George Young became the team's first G.M. and, while not completely ending, began to narrow the nepo-cronyism of the past. Never has it been near as complete as it is with Schoen & Daboll today.

2.Never mind the cockadoodle about this or that kind of play calling when it all depends on whether the Oline can do an adequate job in opening a hole for a runner not to mention sustaining it when needed and, of course, to give the passer the speck of time needed to go to a second option when the first isn't available. Or has too often been the case for a Giants QBs in more recent times, simply keeping him from being harassed, banged around, sacked and/or turning the ball over.

So what then is a good Oline considering that at best there may be no more than 2 on the current chart who qualify? It's hard to say, but Diehl, Seubert, O'Hara, Snee, and McKenzie might be a good model to use.

Incidentally, what was our conservative index for the staff today, not that it matters bubkes?