As of right now, what grade would you give Joe Schoen since he was hired as GM?

[BluesCruz]

He lets/let Mara's twisted logic about Jones and Barkley dominate his thinking

He need to step out and grow a set of brass ones- be his own man

If he lets Wink walk at Daboll's behest he is assuring both he and Daboll will go down in flames.  Neither to ever be a HC or GM again

[Doc16LT56]

I think it's still a bit early to grade Schoen. If I had to grade him at this point I don't think he's earned anything above a C and even that seems a bit generous.

Considering the big areas the GM is responsible for:

1. Hiring a HC. This is still incomplete as it's not clear to me if Daboll is the guy or not.

2. Finding a QB. The Jones contract is a negative. It remains to be seen what happens in the draft.

3. Building a roster. There are some positives (Ekereke, a few promising draft picks, and possibly the Leonard Williams trade), a few negatives (virtually every OL move, lack of run stoppers, and possibly Darren Waller). How the draft picks progress over the next year will help define Schoen's grade in this area. They need Thibs, Banks, JMS, and the receivers to level up to help offset the Evan Neal miss.

4. Cap management. So far it seems like he's done a reasonably good job here (despite the Jones contract), but it remains to be seen how the off-season plays out. If they panic and start overpaying free agents like the previous two GMs, then a decent cap can get ugly in a matter of weeks.

The ultimate measure of a GM is whether he wins or not. Schoen has one winning season and one losing season. If he has another losing season next year and hasn't drafted the next franchise QB, then the entire regime is going to look bad and people will rightly question its future.

[DaveBrown74]

Bill Parcells was thinking of your comment in bold when he famously said-  "You are what your record says you are"

His point was that the record is the ultimate arbitrator, and it can be dangerous when you go down the "yeah, but" road.  It's easy to talk yourself into thinking you are better than you are, that was Bill's warning.

The ironic part is if you applied Parcells' rule about taking the team's record at face value no matter what to the 2022 season, you actually overrated the team vastly.

I would argue that the team and its owner did exactly that, and in the end it hurt the organization.

[DaveBrown74]

I think it's still a bit early to grade Schoen. If I had to grade him at this point I don't think he's earned anything above a C and even that seems a bit generous.

Considering the big areas the GM is responsible for:

1. Hiring a HC. This is still incomplete as it's not clear to me if Daboll is the guy or not.

2. Finding a QB. The Jones contract is a negative. It remains to be seen what happens in the draft.

3. Building a roster. There are some positives (Ekereke, a few promising draft picks, and possibly the Leonard Williams trade), a few negatives (virtually every OL move, lack of run stoppers, and possibly Darren Waller). How the draft picks progress over the next year will help define Schoen's grade in this area. They need Thibs, Banks, JMS, and the receivers to level up to help offset the Evan Neal miss.

4. Cap management. So far it seems like he's done a reasonably good job here (despite the Jones contract), but it remains to be seen how the off-season plays out. If they panic and start overpaying free agents like the previous two GMs, then a decent cap can get ugly in a matter of weeks.

The ultimate measure of a GM is whether he wins or not. Schoen has one winning season and one losing season. If he has another losing season next year and hasn't drafted the next franchise QB, then the entire regime is going to look bad and people will rightly question its future.

Strong write-up. I can't really argue with any of it.

I'd add the Toney trade to the list of roster positives. That guy is a complete bum.

[MightyGiants]

The ironic part is if you applied Parcells' rule about taking the team's record at face value no matter what to the 2022 season, you actually overrated the team vastly.

I would argue that the team and its owner did exactly that, and in the end it hurt the organization.

Jeff,

Parcells' quote was directed at people trying to talk about a team with a poor record, rather than talking down a team with a good record.

[DaveBrown74]

Jeff,

Parcells' quote was directed at people trying to talk about a team with a poor record, rather than talking down a team with a good record.

I understand that was the context under which he used it, but if its such a rock solid truism, it should reliably cut both ways in my opinion.

[MightyGiants]

I understand that was the context under which he used it, but if its such a rock solid truism, it should reliably cut both ways in my opinion.

The truism that Parcell's folksy comment is founded on is the endowment effect.  The endowment effect describes how people tend to value items that they own more highly than they would if they did not belong to them.

So, people with good records are rarely going to be talking down their team.   When it comes to the idea that you are as good as your record, that can be a more complex issue.  Often you are, sometimes you're not.

[GloryDays]

If he gets himself some solid scouts who can evaluate O line talent, he will soon get much better results.

[BluesCruz]

with Wink resigning

 solid F

[MightyGiants]

Would anyone change their grade if they used Mike Lombardi's GM criteria?


https://x.com/mlombardiNFL/status/1744776130031173894?s=20

[T200]

Would anyone change their grade if they used Mike Lombardi's GM criteria?


https://x.com/mlombardiNFL/status/1744776130031173894?s=20

Using that criteria, it would be 'inconclusive' for me. This is the end of the second year of his tenure. He was brought in to undo 10+ years of failure. Unless he had a crystal ball or the world's biggest rabbit's foot, expecting a huge turnaround in 2 years is not remotely realistic. Santa would drop his fat ass down my chimney first. And I don't have a chimney.

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I think it's still a bit early to grade Schoen. If I had to grade him at this point I don't think he's earned anything above a C and even that seems a bit generous.

Considering the big areas the GM is responsible for:

1. Hiring a HC. This is still incomplete as it's not clear to me if Daboll is the guy or not.

2. Finding a QB. The Jones contract is a negative. It remains to be seen what happens in the draft.

3. Building a roster. There are some positives (Ekereke, a few promising draft picks, and possibly the Leonard Williams trade), a few negatives (virtually every OL move, lack of run stoppers, and possibly Darren Waller). How the draft picks progress over the next year will help define Schoen's grade in this area. They need Thibs, Banks, JMS, and the receivers to level up to help offset the Evan Neal miss.

4. Cap management. So far it seems like he's done a reasonably good job here (despite the Jones contract), but it remains to be seen how the off-season plays out. If they panic and start overpaying free agents like the previous two GMs, then a decent cap can get ugly in a matter of weeks.

The ultimate measure of a GM is whether he wins or not. Schoen has one winning season and one losing season. If he has another losing season next year and hasn't drafted the next franchise QB, then the entire regime is going to look bad and people will rightly question its future.

Nice summary. Schoen took over a bad, bad team with bad players, bad culture, and mired in cap-hell. Last season was a fluke as we caught other teams off guard early on (but they figured us out in later games), sprinkled with a heavy (and I mean heavy) dose of luck. A lot of fans thought it was a peek into a great future, but we got ahead of ourselves. However, no matter how you cut it, the turn around was always going to be a 3-year project just to become a playoff team...not win it all

He has changed the culture and brought technology up to the 21st century and beyond. He had precious little time in his first year to build a coaching staff and prepare for the draft. His drafting prowess showed in his second draft. He hasn't been building a house, but rather pouring the foundation. The building of the walls comes next, and in a few years he'll be putting shingles on the roof. You can't put shingles on a house with no roof yet!

We are adding depth to positions that were filled with street agents. He has made hard decisions to get the team in cap health vs. the cap hell that he inherited. He recognized that the program was built around 20th century successes and changed all that and is taking the team to the modern age using modern technology and using statistics to the fullest

Right now, we are all seeing the reality of the situation after seeing the team flail this season, while being a bit blinded with over-expectations, by the great (and unlikely) season we had last year, that in my opinion, was a fluke. And even though we basically sucked this year, we made adjustments and the team ended up showing us there's still hope. They were actually an exciting team to watch towards the end of the season, and all I have ever asked is that we play well enough to be entertaining and not be an embarrassment of an NFL team

I'm the eternal optimist and I proudly picked "A"