The truth behind Brian Daboll, Wink Martindale, Mike Kafka and the Giants’ drama

[H-Town G-Fan]

Amazing that Daboll's personality didn't prevent the Giants from having an unexpectedly successful year in 2022. Only now, in 2023, it seems its a problem.

I take all this with a grain of salt. I'm sure many are unhappy with Daboll's fiery nature. And he may indeed need to dial it back. But the team wasn't good this year not because of Daboll's personality, but because they lack talent--his personality just didn't help an already fragile situation with other egos (i.e. Wink) at play.

[DaveBrown74]

Amazing that Daboll's personality didn't prevent the Giants from having an unexpectedly successful year in 2022. Only now, in 2023, it seems its a problem.

I take all this with a grain of salt. I'm sure many are unhappy with Daboll's fiery nature. And he may indeed need to dial it back. But the team wasn't good this year not because of Daboll's personality, but because they lack talent--his personality just didn't help an already fragile situation with other egos (i.e. Wink) at play.

Good point. When you're winning, nothing is an issue. When you're losing, everything is.

I guess the only counterpoint to what you're saying would be that he doesn't handle losing/adversity well, which is less than ideal if true, but we saw him blow up a couple of times in 2022 (and that's just what we see on the TV camera).

I don't think any of this stuff reads very well, but I think you make a good point and a lot of times these things get a bit blown out of proportion by clickbait-seeker types.

[TDToomer]

the big difference between what Coughlin went through to Daboll was that Tom had difficulty relating to the players while Daboll is it almost all between him and his coaches. By all reports the current Giants players love Daboll. Coughlin lost Tiki and almost Strahan and someone came up with the Leadership committee to bridge the gap between Coughlin and his players.

I do find it interesting how Kafka is interviewing for head coaching positions while at the same time there are reports that he lost his play calling duties several times. I really don't know what these teams see in him to think he is ready to be a head coach while the over qualified Eric Bieniemy yet again cannot get an interview. I figured the Commanders not the Patriots would be the team with a successorship clause in one of their assistant's contract. 

[UncannyGfan]

I think the right decision is to recognize Daboll is a toxic employee and should be let go even if there consequences for firing another HC after only two years.

There are a lot of factors that influence the probability of winning a game so it's hard to point to specific outcomes in short period of time. 

You can't turn an organization around if existing staff are toxic or poor performers.  It demotivates/keeps away high performers and brings down moderate performers.  The highest rungs of an organization must set standard of professional respect in addition to performance.

How could anyone respect an assistant coach who comes to NYG after researching Daboll's reputation?  Paychecks are a short term motivator.  Purpose is what truly drives motivation.  If an organization holds onto a toxic leader, the talent that is motivated by winning and respect is going to stay far away.  I don't think the Giants can sustain a turnaround as long as Daboll is there.

Coughlin was transparent in his rules and consequences of breaking those rules and applied them uniformly.  The necessity of which rules were really needed was open for debate during his time as HC.  Daboll is acting capriciously.

[DaveBrown74]

I think the right decision is to recognize Daboll is a toxic employee and should be let go even if there consequences for firing another HC after only two years.

Are you of the opinion that we fans can make that assessment based on reading a couple articles and not by having firsthand access and looking into the matter more closely by talking to other employees etc?

Seems to me we just know a little bit, and what we do think we know may only be partially true, if even at all true.

I'm not saying nothing happened or that everything with Daboll is honky dory. More just that I feel like we fans don't know very much. It's hard for me to have a firm opinion that he should be fired based on a Pat Leonard article and a couple of other soundbites.

[Brooklyn Dave]

I think the right decision is to recognize Daboll is a toxic employee and should be let go even if there consequences for firing another HC after only two years.

There are a lot of factors that influence the probability of winning a game so it's hard to point to specific outcomes in short period of time. 

You can't turn an organization around if existing staff are toxic or poor performers.  It demotivates/keeps away high performers and brings down moderate performers.  The highest rungs of an organization must set standard of professional respect in addition to performance.

How could anyone respect an assistant coach who comes to NYG after researching Daboll's reputation?  Paychecks are a short term motivator.  Purpose is what truly drives motivation.  If an organization holds onto a toxic leader, the talent that is motivated by winning and respect is going to stay far away.  I don't think the Giants can sustain a turnaround as long as Daboll is there.

Coughlin was transparent in his rules and consequences of breaking those rules and applied them uniformly.  The necessity of which rules were really needed was open for debate during his time as HC.  Daboll is acting capriciously.

How can you let Daboll go? He just hired a new OL coach and is interviewing for a ST Coach and running backs coach plus a new DC . What do you tell these people. No, Daboll will be the coach in 2024 unless some devastating news comes out  about him personally . If the Giants do poorly in 2024 then I would expect him gone .

[Ed Vette]

Whatever went on Schoen knew and then so did Mara. I should be surprised if Mara hired BB and fired Daboll but I won't.

[brownelvis54]

Here is a good one


Report: Giants' Brian Daboll makes 'brutal' outbursts 'personal'


https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/01/12/new-york-giants-brian-daboll-makes-brutal-outbursts-personal/

[katkavage]

They would have been much better off with Flores. But Daboll was the flavor of the day and came as a package with Schoen. Better if Schoen hired someone who he wasn't as familiar with and went through the extensive vetting and interviewing process. Daboll got the job soon after Schoen did. Not good.

[Gmo11]

They would have been much better off with Flores. But Daboll was the flavor of the day and came as a package with Schoen. Better if Schoen hired someone who he wasn't as familiar with and went through the extensive vetting and interviewing process. Daboll got the job soon after Schoen did. Not good.

To be fair... this time last year there wasn't a single question about whether they had the right coach or not. While this is obviously a terrible look for Daboll last year he dragged that crap team to not just a playoff appearance but also a win.  So let's see if he takes these lessons to heart and changes his behavior. 

[katkavage]

To be fair... this time last year there wasn't a single question about whether they had the right coach or not. While this is obviously a terrible look for Daboll last year he dragged that crap team to not just a playoff appearance but also a win.  So let's see if he takes these lessons to heart and changes his behavior. 

I agree but his hot seat got hotter and the pressure on him will be fierce next season. Also, can he lure good assistants now knowing he is on the hot seat?

[Messiah717]

Daboll gets another year to turn things around.  My problem is in 2022 they ended the year 2-5-1.  Yes, they beat the Vikings in the playoffs but as some of said they might of set the franchise back.  They then got trounced by the Eagles in the next round. 

Anyway you look at it 2023 was a step backwards and now throw in the turmoil with the coaching staff.  Plus, what still needs to be done with this roster. 

[AZGiantFan]

Amazing that Daboll's personality didn't prevent the Giants from having an unexpectedly successful year in 2022. Only now, in 2023, it seems its a problem.

I take all this with a grain of salt. I'm sure many are unhappy with Daboll's fiery nature. And he may indeed need to dial it back. But the team wasn't good this year not because of Daboll's personality, but because they lack talent--his personality just didn't help an already fragile situation with other egos (i.e. Wink) at play.

And no one seemed to notice or talk about this glaring character flaw in his 20 years of previous NFL coaching?

Meh, I am in the smear and frame-up school.  I trust Pat Leonard about as far as I can throw Dexter Lawrence.

[DaveBrown74]

The problem I have with making 2024 a do or die year for Daboll is the QB position. If we happen to be starting a rookie next year, and he struggles a bit but perhaps shows some improvement over the course of the year and we end up 7-10, would you necessarily fire him?

If we don't draft a QB and Jones struggles again or gets hurt again and we're depending on another backup, and we have a similar record to this year, are you firing Daboll for that? Would you fire both Daboll and Schoen?

If we fire Daboll after next year and then draft a QB in 2025 along with hiring Daboll's replacement, and then that QB struggles in year one and we go 6-11, will that coach be on the hot seat going into his second year in 2026?

You see where I'm going with this right? I feel like we've become the pre-Stefanski Cleveland Browns or the pre-Campbell Lions. We're now firing coaches every two years. One of the staples of a losing franchise.

[Gmo11]

The problem I have with making 2024 a do or die year for Daboll is the QB position. If we happen to be starting a rookie next year, and he struggles a bit but perhaps shows some improvement over the course of the year and we end up 7-10, would you necessarily fire him?

If we don't draft a QB and Jones struggles again or gets hurt again and we're depending on another backup, and we have a similar record to this year, are you firing Daboll for that? Would you fire both Daboll and Schoen?

If we fire Daboll after next year and then draft a QB in 2025 along with hiring Daboll's replacement, and then that QB struggles in year one and we go 6-11, will that coach be on the hot seat going into his second year in 2026?

You see where I'm going with this right? I feel like we've become the pre-Stefanski Cleveland Browns or the pre-Campbell Lions. We're now firing coaches every two years. One of the staples of a losing franchise.

I'm with you.  Daboll has to show he's learned a lesson from all of this and if he does, he'll likely be a better coach and the team will likely have a better record.  If Jones starts all year that record may still not be pretty but I wouldn't hold that entirely against him.  If they draft a rookie who spends the year developing and shows improvement as the year goes on the record might not end up pretty again but at least there's hope for the future.