Shane Bowen our new DC

[MightyGiants]

I involuntarily cringed and groaned when I hit this one.  "Bend but don't break" is right up there with "prevent" in my list of things I hate.  DBs giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 7 and we spend all year hoping to "hold them to three".  Great.

That is what I heard from Pat's guest and fans on a Titans forum.

[Ed Vette]

What evidence is there that Vrabel micromanaged him? I don't know where this notion that Vrabel himself is/was a defensive guru comes from. His sole season as a defensive play caller saw his Texans defense as league worst in scoring. Maybe Bowen was an alright coordinator in spite of Vrabel? If Vrabel was such a a great coach (with a barely .500 career record) why is he unemployed?

To be clear, I don't really care about the Bowen hire. I think the Giants played it relatively safe. But you could have said the same thing about the Wink hire and now people are bemoaning his departure. Simple facts are Bowen has piloted top defenses in the past. Quite possible he fails, but I don't get the reckless negativity.

I listened to a few podcasts this morning.  Pat Traina interviewed a beat reporter for the Titans, and Nick and Dan went over the Xs and Os.   Some thoughts/points

1)  He's young, 37, with room to grow and improve

2)  He ran a bend but don't break defense that struggled between the 20s but did well in the red zone

3)  With the Titans he gave his DBs too much freedom

4)  He had Jim Schwartz as a consultant when he was in Tenessee. That's a pretty good DC to learn from

5)  With Schartz and Vabrel overseeing him, we don't know what he will do now that he is free to run his own defense as the true top man

6) He is likely to bring his own outside LB coach, Ryan Crow, to the team.  Crow did a pretty good job developing edge talent

7) He was described by the beat reporter as a good but not a great coach

8) From all I heard he reminds me of Patrick Graham

[MightyGiants]

What evidence is there that Vrabel micromanaged him? I don't know where this notion that Vrabel himself is/was a defensive guru comes from. His sole season as a defensive play caller saw his Texans defense as league worst in scoring. Maybe Bowen was an alright coordinator in spite of Vrabel? If Vrabel was such a a great coach (with a barely .500 career record) why is he unemployed?

To be clear, I don't really care about the Bowen hire. I think the Giants played it relatively safe. But you could have said the same thing about the Wink hire and now people are bemoaning his departure. Simple facts are Bowen has piloted top defenses in the past. Quite possible he fails, but I don't get the reckless negativity.

In 2020 Vabrel didn't even have a coach with the defensive coordinator title.   Bowen got the title the next season, but that seems like a strong indicator that Vabrel was very involved with running the defense.

[londonblue]

Bowen does look more like Graham than Martindale.

The pluses for us are he continues a base 3-man front. He runs lots of nickel utilising three safeties (McKinney and Simmons might be higher priority to keep now?). He is very good at getting Edge guys against C/G using twists/stunts/loops and Titans were mid league on sacks. He always fields a good run D.

The things we will struggle with as fans is little blitzing, predominantly zone concepts and per their fans annoyingly passive pass D forcing few turnovers but he did not have a bunch of talent at his disposal so that might be more forced than preferred.

You can over simplify and say his D strengths are Wink's weaknesses and vice versa suggesting strongly to me that Daboll's issues with Wink went well beyond personality.

[MightyGiants]

A point I saw on Twitter.   Cowden used to work in the Titan' front office until 2022 and now works for the Giants.   That gave the Giants some insights into their new DC and should give Schoen a headstart on the types of players Bowen likes.

[Ed Vette]

I've been reading a couple of the Titans' message boards. Nobody was happy with this guy. It ranged from he's just ok to he needs to be fired. Complaints about third down Defense, Secondary coverage, and lack of adjustment during a game. They say the Defense was best when Schwartz was there overseeing him. Nobody was sorry to see him go.

He looks to be an inexperienced Pat Graham who needed support. Bend don't Break. Vegetable Lasagna.

Now he's on his own. The only support he will get from Daboll will be encouragement at the start until frustration kicks in and then the same 'ol Daboll. So this is a swim or sink situation.

Seems to me that Daboll strayed away from a former HC or experienced Veteran like Vic Fangio. Is it because he doesn't want another loose-cannon situation? Regardless, Although the Eagles brought in Fangio as a consultant in 2022, I don't see that happening here.   

[Philosophers]

So what kind of defensive players will we need to add to make Bowen's 3-4 effective? Since he blitzes less and wants his DL/edge olayers to generate the rush, U think we will need a good 3 tech DT who can win at LOS and rush as well as stop the run.  Believe we may also need to find another LB.

[Ed Vette]

So what kind of defensive players will we need to add to make Bowen's 3-4 effective? Since he blitzes less and wants his DL/edge olayers to generate the rush, U think we will need a good 3 tech DT who can win at LOS and rush as well as stop the run.  Believe we may also need to find another LB.

Another edge rusher for sure along with that DE.

[MightyGiants]

So what kind of defensive players will we need to add to make Bowen's 3-4 effective? Since he blitzes less and wants his DL/edge olayers to generate the rush, U think we will need a good 3 tech DT who can win at LOS and rush as well as stop the run.  Believe we may also need to find another LB.

It's tough to say for certain because we don't fully know what he will do on his own.  However, the Giants will need to bolster their safeties (and, to a lesser extent, their CBs) because he ran a lot of nickel and dime with the Titans.   The DBs will need to be strong run defenders and be able to handle man and zone.  The blitzing ability of LBs and DBs will become less important.  His edge rushers are likely to be lined up wider and asked to run the arc so you want edge rushers with that talent. 

[nb587]

A point I saw on Twitter.  Cowden used to work in the Titan' front office until 2022 and now works for the Giants.  That gave the Giants some insights into their new DC and should give Schoen a headstart on the types of players Bowen likes.

I think you could have carried your point to a different and maybe better conclusion.  Having Cowden on staff and hiring Bowen gives me alot more confidence than what a beat writer on a podcast or a random fan.

Also, this continued harping on the bend dont break defense really overlooks what good teans are trying to accomplish which is winning the game.  In todays passing NFL, holding a team to a FG is considered a win by a defense.  Its one of the reasons, why Belichick is still considered a defensive guru around the league.

[Philosophers]

Can Isaiah Simmons be an effective edge pass ruaher from 9 tech spot given how fast he is?

[Ed Vette]

Can Isaiah Simmons be an effective edge pass ruaher from 9 tech spot given how fast he is?

That's interesting. I don't believe he was ever put at that position in AZ. His inability to shed blocks would seem to be a hindrance. 

[MightyGiants]

Can Isaiah Simmons be an effective edge pass ruaher from 9 tech spot given how fast he is?

He might also be a good safety option when they go nickel or dime packages

[H-Town G-Fan]

In 2020 Vabrel didn't even have a coach with the defensive coordinator title.   Bowen got the title the next season, but that seems like a strong indicator that Vabrel was very involved with running the defense.

In the 2020 season without a DC, the Titans ranked 24th in scoring. The next season with Bowen as DC, 6th. If anything, there's a correlation between Vrabel helming defenses and underperformance. So I'm still not convinced that failing to get him is a miss or that Bowen is a bad hire. Milquetoast? Sure. But 2 months ago no one knew Dennard Wilson's name, and now failing to secure him is a most lamentable tragedy. I just am not going to get bent out of shape about most of this stuff when Bowen ticks most boxes... except "exciting," apparently.

[brownelvis54]

I listened to a few podcasts this morning.  Pat Traina interviewed a beat reporter for the Titans, and Nick and Dan went over the Xs and Os.   Some thoughts/points

1)  He's young, 37, with room to grow and improve

2)  He ran a bend but don't break defense that struggled between the 20s but did well in the red zone

3)  With the Titans he gave his DBs too much freedom

4)  He had Jim Schwartz as a consultant when he was in Tenessee. That's a pretty good DC to learn from

5)  With Schartz and Vabrel overseeing him, we don't know what he will do now that he is free to run his own defense as the true top man

6) He is likely to bring his own outside LB coach, Ryan Crow, to the team.  Crow did a pretty good job developing edge talent

7) He was described by the beat reporter as a good but not a great coach

8) From all I heard he reminds me of Patrick Graham

For those that want to see what Rich was listening to, the video is on page 2