Has the O Line been a drafting problem?

[andrew_nyGiants]

Or a coaching/development problem?

I submit that we haven't had a decent OL Coach since the Coughlin years.

Teaching and holding accountable to proper technique and developing more burst, strength and phone booth quickness are all critical coaching points.

I'm not certain we've had even an average OL coach over the past 10 years.


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[UKGiantsFan]

I'd say both. In Neal and JMS we took players considered "plug and play" then tried to change their technique. That's a coaching problem.

The fact we identified players who couldn't change technque successfully, even knowing we'd try to, is an evaluation issue.

That's the equivalent of drafting a plug and play zone corner to exclusively play press-man.

[Ed Vette]

Quote from: kartanoman on March 09, 2024, 04:51:36 PM
We beat this subject over and over, insert a Giant entity, today it is Schoen, tomorrow it could be the guy serving the medium Pepsis, I don't know, but laying failure on one person or another just doesn't seem right when we're looking to identify the "right" problem and then go and solve it and verify it has correctly been solved. This ongoing issue with the offensive line appears to have both individual direct causes as well as collective systematic issues.

If I'm off my rocker, then please call me out and correct me, but it all starts with a head coach who hires an offensive coordinator and other offensive position coaches, to include the offensive line coach, to implement an offensive strategy (or something to that objective). There is a master plan, tailored for each game they play, which is broken down to the lowest order unit team (e.g. offensive line). Let's consider the O-Line. In itself, it is an integrated group of five men working together as a cohesive unit during execution for every offensive play. Let's focus on that.

What do you need to have a cohesive offensive line work in tandem as one integrated unit? Feel free to jump in if I miss something. 1. Physical qualifications, 2. Playbook competency, 3. Sufficient on the job training/practice, to include working with your quarterback(s) 4. Sufficient study on your opponents, 5. Effective coaching to continually improve the unit by individual and collectively. 6. Intangibles.

If the Giants are NOT drafting or signing NFL talent that will improve their team, then that falls on the scouting and GM and possibly the head coach depending how much input he has in the process. They have to not only identify talent, but the right talent that will benefit what the head coach and the coordinators are trying to accomplish.

Based on what happened last season, a change in the offensive line coach was needed and not many would argue with that. That may be one of the direct causes for the lost season and we'll find out in September. On the other hand, fixing the O-Line will help, but not solve, the lack of talent on the rest of the offense. It's going to be different in a dramatic way if #26 signs elsewhere.

Don't be surprised if the Giants bolster both lines via free agency which opens the draft up to plenty of other options.

If the Giants could win Super Bowls with David Diehl, Rich Seubert (post-compound leg fracture), and even old Suburbanites Billy Ard and Chris Godfrey, with the right Offensive Line Coach they'll be able to find that diamond in the rough in the 5th or 6th round. But I think having the right head coach, more so than any one person, in the final analysis, will be the catalyst to make that happen, not Schoen.

Peace!

[Philosophers]

I feel like part of the problem is an offensive philosophy.  What is the Giants?

I use Michigan as an example.  They ran inside a lot to set up play action all over the field to all pass catching players then mixed in deep strikes and QB runs.  Create an offensive identity by running effectively to set everything else up.  Pretty straight forward.

What is the Giants?

[Ed Vette]

I feel like part of the problem is an offensive philosophy.  What is the Giants?

I use Michigan as an example.  They ran inside a lot to set up play action all over the field to all pass catching players then mixed in deep strikes and QB runs.  Create an offensive identity by running effectively to set everything else up.  Pretty straight forward.

What is the Giants?

When the Giants had Tiki and then Jacobs/Bradshaw averaging five yards a carry, it made Manning and the passing game so much more effective. It also helped the Oline in Pass Protection. They both go hand in hand. If you can't run, Defenses load the Box and then you have to throw short quick passes and Screens/Swings to set up the deep stuff. Gilbride had to change up the Offensive eventually and then he was scapegoated and enter McAdoo stage one.

It's a shame that Barkley was reduced to human stats after one season. He became the only weapon and Defenses keyed in on him.

Right now, like I said in another thread, the Giants have no identity. Limbo.

[DaveBrown74]

I'd say both. We've made a number of objectively poor picks like Will Hernandez, Josh Ezeudu, and Matt Peart, but we have also had an O line coaching carousel and have seen players leave the team only to improve elsewhere. So I'd say it's all of the above. You kind of need a perfect storm of problems to be as inept as we have been in this area for an entire decade, and I'd say that's been the case with us.

[Ed Vette]

Injury has plagued this Unit for many years and it's difficult to retain quality depth or even pay for it as they become starters in a league that's both talent challenged and poorly coached due to the reduction in practice time because of the Players Union contract.

[Painter]

Would that it would be so easy. The Mara Giants have had just two altogether brief winning periods (Parcells-'84-'90) and Coughlin-'05-12 with two each of their only 4 Lombardis. For the 20 years prior and a decade since, they have been little more than serial losers. Make of it what you will.

Cheers!

[MightyGiants]

Or a coaching/development problem?

I submit that we haven't had a decent OL Coach since the Coughlin years.

Teaching and holding accountable to proper technique and developing more burst, strength and phone booth quickness are all critical coaching points.

I'm not certain we've had even an average OL coach over the past 10 years.


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From all I have read and heard, O-line is the position where scouting most involves the coaching staff.  The reality is that it's a bit of both.  Consider Ezeudu; he was drafted a round or two earlier than expected from a program with a bad offensive line (the Giants drafted not one but two of their starters).  I think there is room to blame both the coaching staff and the people drafting.  However, since the coaches are so involved in the drafting, I think a bigger portion of the blame can be assigned to the poor coaching staff.

[y_so_blu]

The short answer is maybe, but it's been impossible to tell thus far because the coaching was so bad. How some of our guys develop this year will be very illuminating.