Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on Today at 11:10:30 AMRe-read my post and please don't put words in my mouth. I never said he should. I simply said I'd be shocked if he did.

I didn't try to put words in your mouth; I was just asking you if you would blame him for not doing so. I am at a loss as to why you would think otherwise.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on Today at 10:29:57 AMAnd if you are being honest you will admit that there are posters who have written Jones off in no uncertain terms.  As an example I present @Jclayton92 as the poster boy of this group.  He may even be right, but I'm pretty sure he would agree that this is his position.  OTOH, I think you'd be hard-pressed to name any poster who is as sold out on Jones definitely emerging as a franchise QB - it is couched more as a possibility, generally on the hope that the OL massively improves.  But no one has said he will rise to a top 5/10 QB with anything like the certitude of the detractors.

I really hate to jump in on this debate and add a kick to a dead horse. I stand up and admit I have a lot of faith in DJ and believe he can be a great QB...so if you're looking for a believer...here I am!

A meaningless term derived from pundits, beat-writers, and fans alike is the oft-used and misused term, "franchise QB". In political discussions concerning the economy, it is the equivalent of the debaters on one side of the issue to wear "blinkers" (the eye coverings with a peephole that cover a horse's eyes so he won't be spooked - google it if you are unfamiliar with them) and have a "Zero-Sum" mentality (i.e., belief that there is a hard-line, limited amount of money in the world or country, for all to fight over, blah, blah, blah...because it is static instead of variable and growing...which makes no sense because of population growth, etc. In the real world, money is more a concept than actual currency, but I digress). Such is the problem with fans who believe a team is a one-man show, and get that one man, and nothing else matters

There is such a thing as a "dynasty" (Oakland A's, Cincy Reds, Yanks, Celtics, Steelers, Patriots, and lately the Chiefs), but for all those who believe those dynasties happened because of a single player on a team of many players, is stuck in the "zero sum" mentality. To them, Tom Brady would have won 7 Super Bowls whether or not his coaches and players on the Patriots were even there. To them, Brady would have won 7 SBs with the Browns, or the Commanders, the Cardinals, the Chargers, etc., etc. That's because the ONLY thing that matters is a QB

So...a "franchise QB" is actually a "good QB" on a great team (typically a "dynasty") with great management, great coaches, great players all around, and great role players

Like it or not, DJ has never played behind an adequate NFL offensive line. He has never had above average receivers. He has never had continuity in head coaches, offensive coordinators, or QB coaches. The scheme he was supposed to learn, changed by the time he learned it...so he has had to start over, again and again

Impatient fans think there is an instant fix to a struggling team...usually a "franchise QB". To call it short-sighted would be a conciliatory use of the word

Bottom line: please get behind the team and exercise a little patience as this team is being built one piece at a time under assumingly good leadership. It can happen. It happened with the Knicks recently once they abandoned trying to build a team by overpaying aging vets. Shoen is NEVER going to make a decision on the QB because he trusts fans' opinions (or would even waste his time paying attention to it). And no amount of arguing is ever going to change a fan's opinion among other fans. So why do we go through this never-ending debate that's been going on for years now...on a daily basis. Your opinion nor my opinion changes nothing and never will...and the front office doesn't care that you even have an opinion

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Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:40:53 AMConsidering that NYG's failure to protect him contributed to his injury issues, would you blame him for not waiving this part of his contract?

Re-read my post and please don't put words in my mouth. I never said he should. I simply said I'd be shocked if he did.

Quote from: Trench on April 30, 2024, 11:53:47 PMThis is an INCORRECT assessment of those who are questioning Daniel Jones. Speaking for myself, it was not said he is "terrible, or middling and no possibility of having success!"....actually those who are negative on Jones have stated QUITE the opposite!....we are still rooting for the guy and feel he is a good QB but not a franchise QB. Posts like that make me sincerely give pause.

Hi Trench,

We have had some good conversations in the past, and I don't think you have ever said he was terrible. In fact I think you have stated that you do hope he succeeds and you would root for him if he does and want to be proven wrong.

However, some critics against Daniel Jones have said he was terrible.

Within the last couple of days this comment was stated about DJ "If Jones stinks as he is very likely to do."

And this one from a few weeks ago "Well what do you want me to call them? Never in all my life do I remember a fanbase of any NY sports franchise; Football, baseball; hockey ; and Basketball so devoted to a player who so obviously just stinks! Can you name one? ... I can't.

So, as you can see some of the critics of DJ have expressed that he stinks or is terrible.

Once again not naming you, but there have been more than a few that have expressed this.

Marcellus Johnson has the kind of profile which suggests a legitimate shot to make the practice squad. If a rookie UDFA coming off an injury, even a high upside one, challenges to earn a swing T/back-up role that is not necessarily a good sign for us.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 10:55:06 AMHe could have a high qb rating, and qbr but still end up with 3000 yards, 12 tds and 5 ints and that would be successful to you?

With a minimum of at least 15 games, those numbers seem unlikely.  Still, I can't answer that question without knowing why, despite being in the top 10 when throwing the ball, the team elected to have Jones throw so few passes.

Our roster is our roster. Free agency/draft season we get to play at being GM and armchair critics. From Rookie Mini Camp onwards we should embrace being fans again. I intend to support every player on our roster and hope they succeed, irrespective of any personal reservations. Come on Daniel Jones, Evan Neal et al. Play like Giants!

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:46:54 AMI am not a big fan of just statistical measures to say what is a successful season (as that removes context), but I will offer up what I would consider a successful season by Jones:

1)  No more than two games lost to injury, ideally less

2)  A QB rating of at least 95

3)  A QBR of at least 60

4)  As I mentioned previously, I would like to see his YPA hit 7.0 or better


I am not saying Jones will hit these marks, as I can't predict the future.  I do think there is a reasonable chance he will, but I am not going to go far as to say he is favored to do so.

He could have a high qb rating, and qbr but still end up with 3000 yards, 12 tds and 5 ints and that would be successful to you?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 10:41:32 AMSo then what is your baseline expectation for Jones this season?

What will be a good season for you? Is that 4,000 yards 20 tds and 5 int or what?

You obviously think Jones will ascend, so was does that look like in production?

Good question, and thanks for asking it in a respectful and civil manner, that meant a lot.

Considering in 2022 he threw for 3,200 yards and rushed for 700, while only playing in 16 games and not the 17th one as they had already clinched the playoff spot.

I think with the addition of Nabers, and Robinson and Hyatt ascending, combined with them addressing the right side of the line, I'm looking for production something like this:

3,500-4,000 Passing Yards
400-500 Rushing Yards
66%
22-30 TD's
10-12 Int
93.0-98.0 RTG
60.0 QBR

Something along those lines, with the Giants have a winning record.

At least this is what I am hoping for, will it happen? We will just have to see how the season transpires.

and you? What do you think he puts up this year?

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:19:19 AMDJ has an injury guarantee in his contract for 2025.  That fact may push the Giants to bench DJ in the second half if the season is out of hand (as other NFL teams dealing with such guarantees have done).  Here is the explanation by Dan Duggan

It would certainly make sense that IF he hasn't elevated his play over the pre-2023 period (frankly I completely discount the 2023 season because the whole team was unprepared to compete in the early part of 2023) and the Giants are out of the running barring a miracle - 2-6 or even 3-5 - then it would make sense to bench him and conserve CAP resources for 2025.