Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:27:08 AMI have been saying this every single year Jones has been in the league: he can be evaluated despite what support he has or doesn't have around him. I got a lot of pushback from you and others saying that it was too difficult to evaluate him because of the lack of quality NFL support.

Seems to me the ability to evaluate a player is subjective.

Tim,

I think there is a nuance on this issue.  In a dysfunctional environment, every, or nearly every, QB will look bad.   In a poor environment, people should factor in the poor environment (many do not).

More importantly, the ability to properly evaluate a quarterback is really the purview of that quarterback's coaching staff.  As Daboll once said, people don't know the play calls.  An apparent open receiver may be meaningless because they ran the wrong route.   The fact of the matter is that we can get a sense of QB play by watching the games (or better yet, reviewing the all-22 with an informed eye), but no one outside the organization can evaluate with a strong degree of certainty (lacking the play calls and the QB's instructions).

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:19:06 AMAs a fan, and in general, I try not to engage in it. It's self-defeatist, in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure all GMs and coaches know being second-guessed by fans and the media are a part of the job. They expect it and it probably doesn't phase them.

Tim,

I will confess I like to play armchair GM (and occasional HC).  Team-building just fascinates me.  Although I have my ideas of what I would do, I tend not to second-guess the actual GM or HC because I know they make their decisions wth far more information than I do; plus, they know their profession better than I do.  I think all of us do give in to the second-guessing temptation when dealing with GMs like Gettleman and HCs like Joe Judge.

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:15:53 AM           

I will admit that some of that is assuming that Jones is healthy and will get a chance to operate in at least a minimally supportive NFL quarterback environment this season.  Plus, we have 2022, where DJ did operate in a less-than-ideal, but at least not dysfunctional (like 2023) environment.  Much like Schoen and Daboll were able to evaluate Jones enough in 2022 to give him his big contract.

Talkin' Giants

@TalkinGiants
Giants Reported UDFA signings

Wyoming WR Ayir Asante
West Florida WR Jon Jiles
North Dakota State OL Jake Kubas
Missouri OT Marcellus Johnson
UCLA DB Alex Johnson
Oregon DT Casey Rogers
LSU EDGE Ovie Oghoufo
Rutgers K Jude McAtamney

Giants have room for 1 more signing.
9:10 AM · May 1, 2024
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Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 09:11:43 AMMost of the playoffs team we face are in our division besides Tampa and Baltimore.

That is how you can finish 3rd in your division and still have the 6th hardest, on paper, schedule

Quote from: T200 on Today at 09:02:43 AM1) No

2) No

3) No

Playing the hindsight game is pointless, IMO. Decisions are made with as much information that is available at that time. He made what he thought were the best choices for this team given the many circumstances. He, and we as fans, will live with those decisions. Anybody can sit back and second-guess and we all can sit behind our keyboards with zero pressure and say what we would do. But put us in the spotlight and on the hot seat and things look a lot different.

What's done is done. We press forward and move on.

If one of the three QBs that Schoen (and Mara) passed on has an outstanding season, here's what's going to happen here at the BBH:

- There will be a litany of "I told you so" threads from folks who wanted to move on from Jones
- There will be a ton of pushback from Jones supporters saying, "It's only one season. Daniel had a great 2022 and won a playoff game."
- There will be the same regurgitated arguments for and against Jones. The horse will be resuscitated to only be beaten to death again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Tim,

I can't disagree with your sentiment.   I will say, though, if you don't like being second-guessed, being an NFL GM (or head coach) is the wrong career choice.  Being an armchair GM/HC/QB is part of the fun of being a fan.

Quote from: TONKA56 on Today at 08:55:29 AMI predict that if JJ McCarthy goes on to have an excellent career, the pro-Jones camp will attribute it to the team around him while the anti-Jones camp will put Schoen in the crosshairs for it, with the occasional mention of a Mara ultimatum.

I don't think that will be the case. I assume you put me in the "pro-Jones" camp.  I believe even with disparate support, we can get a sense of how good another QB is.  I don't even think JJ (a prospect I liked) needs to be better than Jones to question passing on him.  There is the issue of the cheap rookie contract that comes with JJ that would have helped the Giants salary cap.

In my opinion, passing on the three QBs comes with significant risk for Schoen and the company.  I have to think that they are banking on Jones having a comeback (or failing that being in a position to acquire his replacement next offseason) or they truly don't see the 3 prospects available to them as being anything special.

1)  Should Schoen be fired for passing on a good quarterback?

2)  Would you say that QBs perform differently in different situations and the Giants offense minus Nabers would have made it difficult to draft and develop a QB (who wasn't at least an elite prospect)?

3)  Would Jones performing very well, give Schoen and company a pass on one of the 3 later drafted QBs doing well?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 30, 2024, 09:03:49 PMA sense of humor is great and all, but I might have waited until I have taken a single NFL snap or possibly even made a single tackle before I started dissing people like Sterling Shepard and even OBJ, both of whom have made material contributions to this franchise.

Schoen talked about Nubin being a "culture setter".   This is exactly how you set a culture, calling out behavior that hurts the team rather than helping it.  I can't wait to see how he is in a couple of seasons.  I have a feeling the Giants have found themselves a true team leader.

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 06:46:55 AMFormer NFL executive and current analyst Michael Lombardi believes that New York Giants co-owner John Mara impacted the club's decision to not spend the sixth pick of the 2024 NFL Draft on a replacement for starting quarterback Daniel Jones.

"And remember, John Mara, the president of the team -- he's the reason why Daniel Jones is making all that money -- he loves Daniel Jones," Lombardi said during a Monday appearance on sports radio station 106.7 The Fan, per Dan Mennella of Audacy. "He drafted Daniel Jones as the sixth pick overall. Nothing would make them more happy than Daniel Jones being successful. They're almost willing it to happen. It won't, but they're hoping it will."

I have to confess, I was left a bit puzzled.  The claim that Mara "impacted" the decision not to draft a QB at 6 wasn't actually supported by the provided quote.  Either the author mischaracterized Lombardi's quote or they left out important parts of the quote.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on Today at 08:38:22 AMSimms is a smart, funny, fascinating guy who really muted himself to fit TV. He's much better when he does relaxed podcasts or is a guest on people's shows, he lets down his hair and is himself. His media career is far from over.

That's an interesting observation.  I tend to agree. I like podcast Simms better than I like broadcast Simms.

While Waller isn't sure his heart is still in football, he seems to be all in on his music career


https://x.com/SNYGiants/status/1748432843326267844

Quote from: todge on April 30, 2024, 10:12:25 PMGM Schneider's claim was rebuked by Lock himself. He said the Giants told him they were bringing him in to be the backup.

I would suggest we don't pay any attention to the football media because we know they make up stories to get attention. We have never received a statement from Schoen and Daboll other than "Daniel Jones is our starter if healthy."


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Ted,

For what it's worth, this my speculative view (I admit to no insider knowledge)

I think Schoen is being honest when he says his expectation is for Jones to be the starter.   

There are two instances where I can see that reality departing from the expectation.

1) If Jones is clearly struggling while Lock is playing lights out in training camp and the PS

2) If the team is realistically out of the playoffs by the half.  There is a sizeable injury guarantee (I think about $20 to $25 million) if Jones isn't physically able to start the 2025 season.   So, if the team is out of it, I could see the Giants benching Jones to protect the team from having to pay out the injury guarantee.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 08:09:42 AMRich,

When you engage in obfuscation, it's more telling than just answering the question.  H explicitly used the term MVP-caliber; the key work is CALIBER.  Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Jared Goff, Brock Purdy, etc, etc have never won MVP awards.  Yet, as top 10/5 QBs, they are absolutely considered MVP-caliber QBs and have received MVP votes/consideration.  More than one or two QBs earn MVP votes every year; just like more than one or two player earns Heisman votes.  I can name at least 8 QBs right now who have earned MVP votes and thus are considered MVP-caliber...

I'm shocked I have to define the word caliber to you.... 

Matt,

Look, I have addressed the slanderous attack on my character.  No amount of spin is going to dispute what I said.  I am done, moving on.  I don't want threads about Daniel Jones to be dragged down into the gutter. I hope you and your other critics of Jones share that desire or will at least respect my wishes.   We should be able to talk about our team's QB in a respectful manner and not take potshots or, encourage those potshots by liking them.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 07:50:00 AMRich,

If you're being honest, you will acknowledge several fans predicted DJ was ascending to become a top 10/5 QB; last year, a few even predicted the DJ-led offense was on the verge of 'lethality.' Any QB who ascends into the top 10/5, or leads a lethal offense, is by definition, an MVP caliber QB. I believe that's what H-Town was referring to when he made his statement; at least, that's how I interpreted it. 
 

Matt, 


MVP is reserved for one or two QBs.   You know that.   That is not remotely the same as potentially being in the top ten.  @tonka was right, once DJ enters the conversation, all naunce is lost.