Big Blue Huddle

In 2022 a managed game plan of a Rushing Attack and a Quick Passing Game of short passes, supplemented with Read Option Runs and allowing Jones to take off when he saw nothing in the field, DJ had a successful season. Would that be referring to him as a Game Manager? In some respects, yes. Not that GM is a dirty term. All QB's need to manage the game from the huddle to the pre-snap reads, to moving protection and calling audibles.

2022 was a year that showed how Daboll could create a system where Daniel Jones could thrive, but it also covered up his imperfections and liabilities. Part of the reasoning behind the plan was the fact that the Offensive Line would struggle to protect Jones in the pocket and not allow time for downfield throws.

When the decision needed to be made on DJ's contract, they knew that he had skills both tangible and intangible that they could win with and felt that with the proper support of a team around him, they could win games. Oddly enough, they weren't completely sold on him so they created a contract that had an escape after two and three seasons.

Their next step was to try to solidify that Offensive line in 2023 and retain the O-line Coach in his second season, while bringing in some passing weapons in Waller, and Campbell, and drafting deep threat Jalin Hyatt. Unfortunately, the O-Line had injuries, Waller was injured, and the expected improvement from key players did not happen. Daniel Jones was injured and did not finish the season.

Jones was replaced by backup Tyrod Taylor who had some success under slightly better conditions but then he went down to injuries and "Flash In The Pan" Tommy DeVito with his enthusiasm rejuvenated the team and they won some games until he was figured out, bringing in Taylor once again to cap the season off on a higher note. Still in all that, it was apparent that the league figured out what they needed to do defensively based on what was successful for them in the later part of the 2022 season.   

In their post-season evaluation, they knew that the Salary Cap on Jones meant that Jones would be their starting QB in 2024. They brought in three veteran Linemen with a history of success to improve the O-Line. The move they didn't make was to retain the best offensive weapon on the team. The man who was responsible for what success they did have in running the ball. They didn't sign their UFA Saquon Barkley.

Based on all this and however you decide to digest some or all of it, does this look like a Franchise that would have long-term plans for Daniel Jones? Is this a year they would pass on drafting a QB somewhere in the first round?

Obviously, they planned to replace Saquon with Devin Singletary. His production was good in Buffalo but he averaged just slightly over 11 attempts a game. Whether they draft a QB or not, what will be the Offensive Game Plan this season for Daniel Jones?

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 16, 2024, 11:52:14 AMWhether they draft a QB or not, what will be the Offensive Game Plan this season for Daniel Jones?

Ed: The quick answer is go back to what worked in 2022, but not so fast... the players are different (Saquon gone - for one important difference) and we don't yet know whether they'll go elite X receiver in the draft.

If they go QB with their first pick, then start putting in the offense for the new guy (i.e., next year's starter). Let the team "practice" the new stuff during the first eight games, then put the new starting QB in. 

If they go elite WR or offensive lineman with their first pick, then see paragraph one. If the first pick is at some position other than QB, WR or OL, that man had better start and contribute immediately, or Schoen will have to find a hard hat to wear when attending games (I say that, not so much because I'd personally react that way, but because I know the vast majority of people here have threatened to do so).

Bob

Here's a question.  Is a QB plying in a West Coast offense like Joe Montana was a game manager versus a QB playing in an Air Coryell offense?

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 16, 2024, 11:52:14 AMBased on all this and however you decide to digest some or all of it, does this look like a Franchise that would have long-term plans for Daniel Jones? Is this a year they would pass on drafting a QB somewhere in the first round?

In answering this question, another question needs to be answered first: Which year was the anomaly: 2022 or 2023?

Me? I see 2022 as the anomaly. The coaching staff had to bring in David Copperfield's smoke and mirrors to hide Jones's deficiencies. The team had the second-most 1-score victories behind the Vikings. The Vikings lost to us and we lost to the Eagles. Smoke and mirrors can win some close games. But beating a more talented team requires more talent.

I agree that they were very optimistic about creating a follow-up game plan for Jones while giving him a little more leash. After the opening drive against Dallas came up short, the wheels in his mind fell off.

There are a couple of reasons that I see that will keep Schoen and Daboll from getting a QB this year:
- They aren't high on any of the prospects
- The cost is too much to get him

If there is a QB they like this year and they can make a deal to get him, it will happen.

I think DJ is a very accurate deep ball thrower.  In my opinion his problem is a fear to gamble to make that throw.

Am I wrong?

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 16, 2024, 11:52:14 AMIn 2022 a managed game plan of a Rushing Attack and a Quick Passing Game of short passes, supplemented with Read Option Runs and allowing Jones to take off when he saw nothing in the field, DJ had a successful season. Would that be referring to him as a Game Manager? In some respects, yes. Not that GM is a dirty term. All QB's need to manage the game from the huddle to the pre-snap reads, to moving protection and calling audibles.

2022 was a year that showed how Daboll could create a system where Daniel Jones could thrive, but it also covered up his imperfections and liabilities. Part of the reasoning behind the plan was the fact that the Offensive Line would struggle to protect Jones in the pocket and not allow time for downfield throws.

When the decision needed to be made on DJ's contract, they knew that he had skills both tangible and intangible that they could win with and felt that with the proper support of a team around him, they could win games. Oddly enough, they weren't completely sold on him so they created a contract that had an escape after two and three seasons.

Their next step was to try to solidify that Offensive line in 2023 and retain the O-line Coach in his second season, while bringing in some passing weapons in Waller, and Campbell, and drafting deep threat Jalin Hyatt. Unfortunately, the O-Line had injuries, Waller was injured, and the expected improvement from key players did not happen. Daniel Jones was injured and did not finish the season.

Jones was replaced by backup Tyrod Taylor who had some success under slightly better conditions but then he went down to injuries and "Flash In The Pan" Tommy DeVito with his enthusiasm rejuvenated the team and they won some games until he was figured out, bringing in Taylor once again to cap the season off on a higher note. Still in all that, it was apparent that the league figured out what they needed to do defensively based on what was successful for them in the later part of the 2022 season.   

In their post-season evaluation, they knew that the Salary Cap on Jones meant that Jones would be their starting QB in 2024. They brought in three veteran Linemen with a history of success to improve the O-Line. The move they didn't make was to retain the best offensive weapon on the team. The man who was responsible for what success they did have in running the ball. They didn't sign their UFA Saquon Barkley.

Based on all this and however you decide to digest some or all of it, does this look like a Franchise that would have long-term plans for Daniel Jones? Is this a year they would pass on drafting a QB somewhere in the first round?

Obviously, they planned to replace Saquon with Devin Singletary. His production was good in Buffalo but he averaged just slightly over 11 attempts a game. Whether they draft a QB or not, what will be the Offensive Game Plan this season for Daniel Jones?

A couple of assumptions:

1) the Giants draft an elite WR who proves to be a number one WR in his rookie season

2) the coaching change and the veteran additions have the Giants O-line being adequate

3) Waller comes back, or a TE is drafted along with another RB


Based on those assumptions, I would expect a more balanced offense.  I would expect the RB to be by committee.  I would expect that, with adequate protection and proper receivers, more of the playbook will be opened up to Daniel Jones.

If Jones can stay healthy (and I appreciate his history, that is a big if), I could see Jones putting in a top 10 QB performance or top 15 QB performance.  I would expect a running game that is in the middle of the pack.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 16, 2024, 02:59:13 PMA couple of assumptions:

1) the Giants draft an elite WR who proves to be a number one WR in his rookie season

2) the coaching change and the veteran additions have the Giants O-line being adequate

3) Waller comes back, or a TE is drafted along with another RB


Based on those assumptions, I would expect a more balanced offense.  I would expect the RB to be by committee.  I would expect that, with adequate protection and proper receivers, more of the playbook will be opened up to Daniel Jones.

If Jones can stay healthy (and I appreciate his history, that is a big if), I could see Jones putting in a top 10 QB performance or top 15 QB performance.  I would expect a running game that is in the middle of the pack.

To your 1st and 2nd point.

1) Jones didn't throw to the open wrs he did have in 2023, so why would he do it now? In 2022 he refused to push the ball downfield, so why would he do it now? That's why the numbers on Jones in 2022 were so glaring because the ball rarely traveled beyond 10 yards.

2) The Giants Oline was adequate in 2022 and he still didn't go deep ever outside playing one of the all time worst defenses.

If Jones can't adequately run basic protections or process the field, then why would we want to open up more of the pkaybook to a player many see as broken?

I just think at this point him putting up a high completion percentage and QBR because 99% of his passes only travel 5 yards and for another season he ends up with 3,000 passing yards we will be stuck in the same exact position we are in now. Which is without a true franchise QB.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 16, 2024, 03:29:48 PMTo your 1st and 2nd point.

1) Jones didn't throw to the open wrs he did have in 2023, so why would he do it now? In 2022 he refused to push the ball downfield, so why would he do it now? That's why the numbers on Jones in 2022 were so glaring because the ball rarely traveled beyond 10 yards.

2) The Giants Oline was adequate in 2022 and he still didn't go deep ever outside playing one of the all time worst defenses.

If Jones can't adequately run basic protections or process the field, then why would we want to open up more of the pkaybook to a player many see as broken?

I just think at this point him putting up a high completion percentage and QBR because 99% of his passes only travel 5 yards and for another season he ends up with 3,000 passing yards we will be stuck in the same exact position we are in now. Which is without a true franchise QB.

I guess time will tell if you are correct or not

I've said this since day 1:  Jones has all the tools, Height / Good Arm / Accuracy / Mobility / Smarts / Dedication / Toughness / Etc.  The one tool he is missing is Processing speed and that is one item that can be improved with time but will always be an issue.  This is why just looking at him and seeing his tools can get some people excited about his ceiling only to watch him bump his head pretty quickly   

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 16, 2024, 03:29:48 PMTo your 1st and 2nd point.

1) Jones didn't throw to the open wrs he did have in 2023, so why would he do it now? In 2022 he refused to push the ball downfield, so why would he do it now? That's why the numbers on Jones in 2022 were so glaring because the ball rarely traveled beyond 10 yards.

2) The Giants Oline was adequate in 2022 and he still didn't go deep ever outside playing one of the all time worst defenses.

If Jones can't adequately run basic protections or process the field, then why would we want to open up more of the pkaybook to a player many see as broken?

I just think at this point him putting up a high completion percentage and QBR because 99% of his passes only travel 5 yards and for another season he ends up with 3,000 passing yards we will be stuck in the same exact position we are in now. Which is without a true franchise QB.

I understand where you are coming from, but may I share something regarding your first point.

As far as Jones not pushing the ball down the field in 2023. If you noticed in his final game before getting hurt he started to push the ball deep.

I believe he saw the positive effects that Taylor had doing that before he got hurt, and so he began to open it as well, but sadly he tore his acl I believe in that game.

So in 2024 I believe DJ knows in order for him and the Giants offense to be successful and explosive, he's got to take some shots down the field, and I believe he will do that.

However as Mighty said time will tell, and we will have to see what happens.

Quote from: WheresDayne on April 16, 2024, 04:08:58 PMI've said this since day 1:  Jones has all the tools, Height / Good Arm / Accuracy / Mobility / Smarts / Dedication / Toughness / Etc.  The one tool he is missing is Processing speed and that is one item that can be improved with time but will always be an issue.  This is why just looking at him and seeing his tools can get some people excited about his ceiling only to watch him bump his head pretty quickly   

That was obvious immediately and has not changed. Hard to teach that.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 16, 2024, 02:15:59 PMHere's a question.  Is a QB plying in a West Coast offense like Joe Montana was a game manager versus a QB playing in an Air Coryell offense?

It's hard to answer that since the term "game manager" doesn't really mean anything. It changes based on context. To some it's a pejorative for a quarterback who plays in an offense designed around masking the quarterback's weaknesses. It could also be a quarterback who can't play beyond the Xs and Os. To others it's interchangeable with "system quarterback" e.g. Troy Aikman.

I think moves (the OL signings for example) point to more of an emphasis of the passing game.

Ultimately I think Kafka and Daboll want to run some blend of what they were part of in their previous roles.  I think they are going to try to play that style but with attention to the personnel and knowing they dont have Mahomes or Allen. 

Whether or not its successful or they can really open up the play book is to be determined.   

This is why my first guess for the 1st round is a WR.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 16, 2024, 05:44:54 PMI think moves (the OL signings for example) point to more of an emphasis of the passing game.

Ultimately I think Kafka and Daboll want to run some blend of what they were part of in their previous roles.  I think they are going to try to play that style but with attention to the personnel and knowing they dont have Mahomes or Allen. 

Whether or not its successful or they can really open up the play book is to be determined.   

This is why my first guess for the 1st round is a WR.

You hit on the point that that have to know the differences in the QBs they had prior to Jones. As well as the similarities. Do they see something in Jones that compels them to envision more from him?

Jones has been the Giants QB for five seasons now.

Time already has told.