The truth behind Brian Daboll, Wink Martindale, Mike Kafka and the Giants’ drama

[coggs]

I think the right decision is to recognize Daboll is a toxic employee and should be let go even if there consequences for firing another HC after only two years.

There are a lot of factors that influence the probability of winning a game so it's hard to point to specific outcomes in short period of time. 

You can't turn an organization around if existing staff are toxic or poor performers.  It demotivates/keeps away high performers and brings down moderate performers.  The highest rungs of an organization must set standard of professional respect in addition to performance.

How could anyone respect an assistant coach who comes to NYG after researching Daboll's reputation?  Paychecks are a short term motivator.  Purpose is what truly drives motivation.  If an organization holds onto a toxic leader, the talent that is motivated by winning and respect is going to stay far away.  I don't think the Giants can sustain a turnaround as long as Daboll is there.

Coughlin was transparent in his rules and consequences of breaking those rules and applied them uniformly.  The necessity of which rules were really needed was open for debate during his time as HC.  Daboll is acting capriciously.

He is the head coach of an NFL team.  Not an assistant manager at Shop Rite who berates and bullies 16 and 17 year olds.

[FL GMAN]

There is an article in the Post that tells the Daboll saga from supposedly the NY Giants view. The picture presented is much less harsh than discussed here and also paints Wink in an unflattering light. I know this has been beaten to death but what's been discussed here does not appear to be 100% correct. Worth a look and if true shows how words can get twisted.

[GloryDays]

link?

[AZGiantFan]

As Pontius Pilate famously said, "What is Truth?"

[BluesCruz]

Apparently this all stems from the bad blood between Wink and Daboll.

The players liked playing for both and like playing for Brian.

One article referenced how all the coaches traditionally meet for dinner in the cafeteria but Wink and the 2 brothers would eat in Winks office

Two talented coaches who just did not like each other.

Hopefully Daboll is able to attract assistants who are both talented and blend in.   This whole thing is reminicent of Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka fueding in 1985 but still winning a Lombardi.  Then Buddy (another Blitz guy) took off for Philly.  Seems guys who like to blitz often dont want to report to anyone

[Bill Brown]

I'll preface this with the fact I am almost 76 and memories quickly fade away but wasn't one of the reasons that the Ravens let Wink go was the HC wanted Wink to run a different defense that was less blitz heavy and throughout the year Wink basically said through his actions that he would run his defense the way he wanted it to run. That is not a very good look if true.

Bill

[MightyGiants]

link?

https://nypost.com/2024/01/09/sports/wink-martindale-cursed-out-giants-brian-daboll-after-firings/amp/

[MightyGiants]

For those that may be interested, Pat Leonard discusses his article in his latest podcast

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0KRzMGKJB23zgHTvWPSIQk?si=dbf1c16ef27049ec


I listened, and while I found it interesting, I struggled to say I learned much beyond what he had already laid out in the article.

[Giant Jim]

Joe Judge had a similar problem with Jason Garrett and his "click".

Martindale was wrong to go to the press about the McKinney insentient. It's the head coach's job to meet with the parties behind closed doors and then give the usual non-answer to the press.

Daboll should've conferred with Martindale before firing the Wilkins's brothers. The way it was done was to force Martindale to resign.

Here's the other side of the story from today's Post.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/sports/brian-daboll-needs-to-evolve-after-giants-coaching-mess/

[Brooklyn Dave]

I don't know where to put this post so I just putb it here.

I am wondering if the Giants are waiting to see if Leslie Frasier is going to get a HC job before they hire a DC .

I am told and read that Dennard Wilson the backfield coach of the Ravens would be an excellent hire . I am sure Henderson would not be happy with that though

[MightyGiants]

Joe Judge had a similar problem with Jason Garrett and his "click".

Martindale was wrong to go to the press about the McKinney insentient. It's the head coach's job to meet with the parties behind closed doors and then give the usual non-answer to the press.

Daboll should've conferred with Martindale before firing the Wilkins's brothers. The way it was done was to force Martindale to resign.

Here's the other side of the story from today's Post.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/sports/brian-daboll-needs-to-evolve-after-giants-coaching-mess/

For those wonder about Daboll's near term future, it appears the team is 100% Daboll and perhaps doesn't even believe he needs to change based on this nugget that they leaked (from the link):

Make no mistake, Daboll within the organization did not take a hit for how this all went down. Could Daboll in his second year as a head coach at any level tried to smooth things over more adroitly? Perhaps. But there is a feeling within the organization that Martindale's quirks and what increasingly was viewed as his lack of being a team player grew into issues that had to be expunged, unless Martindale changed his ways.

It appears (since this article is based on NYG-sanctioned leaks) that reports of Schoen's listening in on coaching communications during games is true.

It is true that Schoen for four games — victories over the Commanders, Patriots and Packers and a loss to the Saints — sensed there could be trouble brewing and donned a headset to monitor the communication amongst the coaches. He did this on his own

It also appears the claim of Daboll pointing a finger of blame has merit:

During the 31-19 victory in Washington, Jihad Ward (offsides) and Kayvon Thibodeaux (roughing the passer) were called for penalties and Daboll complained to Martindale about the lack of discipline from the outside linebackers — the position coached by Drew Wilkins — reminding Martindale about Thibodeaux's costly offsides penalty in the 10-7 overtime loss to the Jets. Daboll, though, did not blame Martindale for the loss to the Jets.

[MightyGiants]

I will add one more thought-  Leaking out a counterpoint to Pat Leonard's scathing article was less than smart, in my opinion.   All they did was prove many of Pat's claims were true, and they kept the story going.

I guess the only partially positive accomplishment from the report they leaked to Schwartz was that they killed any talk about Daboll being held accountable for their behavior or that he might be fired or punished.   I say partially because it would be helpful for the team long-term if they put some real pressure to get Daboll to clean up his act.  When Coughlin changed his ways, everyone, including Coughlin, knew he was on the hot seat.   That was part of what motivated Coughlin to change and improve. 

[Ed Vette]

For those wonder about Daboll's near term future, it appears the team is 100% Daboll and perhaps doesn't even believe he needs to change based on this nugget that they leaked (from the link):


It appears (since this article is based on NYG-sanctioned leaks) that reports of Schoen's listening in on coaching communications during games is true.


It also appears the claim of Daboll pointing a finger of blame has merit:

That OLB incident was setting up the firing. Daboll is a lot more cunning than people give him credit for. As for Daboll's consequences, Rich? Don't believe that there aren't any. I'm sure he was spoken to about his sideline demeanor and maintaining his composure. Any future incidents and he will be looked at as the most common denominator.

[MightyGiants]

That OLB incident was setting up the firing. Daboll is a lot more cunning than people give him credit for. As for Daboll's consequences, Rich? Don't believe that there aren't any. I'm sure he was spoken to about his sideline demeanor and maintaining his composure. Any future incidents and he will be looked at as the most common denominator.

The problem with cunning is that I know very few people who want to work for a cunning boss, especially if that cunning is directed at them or their coworkers.  I have repeatedly heard how Daboll got over on one of his assistant coaches and that other coaches see that and are turned off by such behavior.

I suspect the game-playing turns off his coaching staff far more than being cursed out.  Most people prefer to work with straight shooters.

As for the, if it happens again consequences.   Now that the word is out there as to how Daboll treats his coaches, the people who will take interviews will either have no problem working for a less-than-straightforward HC or are desperate for work and will tolerate anything.  So I doubt we will see another Wink style blowup.   I am mindful that when Wink took the job, how Daboll would conduct himself as a head coach was unknown.

I am interested in seeing who replaces Wink.  Many who were supportive of Wink's departure seemed to believe there was an opportunity to upgrade.   The list of candidates, to date, has been less than impressive.  If they don't pull a rabbit out of their hat, it seems the quality of the defensive coaching staff may decline a bit this offseason. 

[T200]

The problem with cunning is that I know very few people who want to work for a cunning boss, especially if that cunning is directed at them or their coworkers.  I have repeatedly heard how Daboll got over on one of his assistant coaches and that other coaches see that and are turned off by such behavior.

I suspect the game-playing turns off his coaching staff far more than being cursed out.  Most people prefer to work with straight shooters.

As for the, if it happens again consequences.   Now that the word is out there as to how Daboll treats his coaches, the people who will take interviews will either have no problem working for a less-than-straightforward HC or are desperate for work and will tolerate anything.  So I doubt we will see another Wink style blowup.   I am mindful that when Wink took the job, how Daboll would conduct himself as a head coach was unknown.

I am interested in seeing who replaces Wink.  Many who were supportive of Wink's departure seemed to believe there was an opportunity to upgrade.   The list of candidates, to date, has been less than impressive.  If they don't pull a rabbit out of their hat, it seems the quality of the defensive coaching staff may decline a bit this offseason. 

I agree that there are those who are and would be turned off by Daboll's personality and his behavior. But there are those who aren't. We all have our preferences and there are many people who cannot handle a straight-shooter who gives them the honest truth without fluff. Regardless of their preference, whoever chooses to stay on Daboll's staff will undoubtedly perform to the best of their ability, as it reflects on them, not Daboll.

Regarding Wink's replacement, you know all too well that this is a 'what have you done for me, lately' business. If the new guy gets the defense to show improvement, we will care even less about Wink. I would advise folks to give the new guy a chance to see what his defense actually does before comparing him to Wink. Personally, I'm not a fan of being 'better on paper.' I want to be better on game days.