Or are we done with that ridiculous narrative after he's taken a QB void of any and all elite traits and won games with him?
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 11, 2023, 11:55:11 PMOr are we done with that ridiculous narrative after he's taken a QB void of any and all elite traits and won games with him?
I know some people mentioned it but I don't really think it was a "narrative" on here
Maybe a hot seat kind of situation but how many people actually wanted him fired after this season ?
Quote from: killarich on December 11, 2023, 11:57:26 PMI know some people mentioned it but I don't really think it was a "narrative" on here
Maybe a hot seat kind of situation but how many people actually wanted him fired after this season ?
There were more than a few as I recall.
I am liking the progress of Robinson, Banks, Hyatt, etc. It helps to play all these young kids. Accelerates their development.
Quote from: killarich on December 11, 2023, 11:57:26 PMI know some people mentioned it but I don't really think it was a "narrative" on here
Maybe a hot seat kind of situation but how many people actually wanted him fired after this season ?
There multiple people who wanted him gone. No need to call anybody out obviously. But I think it's a good reminder of the dangers of being overly knee-jerk in reactions to small sample sizes. Especially with a guy who won coach of the year last year.
If we fired Daboll he'd be unemployed for about five seconds. And we'd be the biggest joke in American sports.
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 11, 2023, 11:55:11 PMOr are we done with that ridiculous narrative after he's taken a QB void of any and all elite traits and won games with him?
If I might inject.....that is a strange thing to say about a QB who is improving by the game
Has us on a playoff possible trajectory and has everyone in the organization turned around
What would you like to see? Walk on water?
Yesterday was extremely windy and did not lend itself to long downfield passing which I predict will be his next transformation. Who thought he could run the ball like that? He has a magical arm. Elite? Close enough
If you want to call someone out its Barkley
He fails to advance the ball on 80% of his carries, cannot break a tackle and yesterday fumbled the ball with no one near him nearly costing us the game
Tommy had to pull one more rabbit out of his hat to correct that hot mess.
Barkley should be part of a rotation. This desire to keep him out there for 99% of the snaps despite his faults is mindboggling- making Tomy's job unnecessarily more difficult
I submit our inability to sustain drives comes directly from Barkleys inability to run to a manageable 3rd down attempt. We are always in 3rd and long
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 07:39:15 AMIf you want to call someone out its Barkley
He fails to advance the ball on 80% of his carries, cannot break a tackle and yesterday fumbled the ball with no one near him nearly costing us the game
Barkley should be part of a rotation. This desire to keep him out there for 99% of the snaps despite his faults is mindboggling- making Tomy's job unnecessarily more difficult
I submit our inability to sustain drives comes directly from Barkleys inability to run to a manageable 3rd down attempt. We are always in 3rd and long
Barkley's fumble was inexcusable and the team prevailed despite that.
Barkley has been a feast-or-famine type of runner since he got here, in large part due to being hit behind the line of scrimmage on way too many of his rush attempts. If
excuses, err umm,
reasons can be made for DJ and his inefficiencies, then the same needs to be afforded to the most talented offensive player we have had the past five years.
Barkley makes every QB's job easier because the defense knows that he is the focal point of the offense and they don't respect the QB no matter who it is. They crowd the line to stop 26. Period. When he's on the field, Tommy TD has favorable coverage options. To his credit, he has made good reads and excellent throws.
To suggest that Barkley is somehow a problem with this offense and is potentially holding TD Tommy back, I wholeheartedly disagree.
I never wanted Daboll fired. I wanted Kafka fired. :ok:
I wanted him fired - or at least saw no reason to keep him. I'll own it.
Fire Thomas McGaughey
Like this morning....
After last night I suppose Bobby Johnson can stick around until the end of the season.
Firing Daboll wasn't going to happen and the only scenario where it could have was if he lost the team. The second Dallas game might have been the opportunity for this if not for a kid named Tommy Chicken Cutlet who kept on battling and laid two touchdowns on Dallas' defense before going home that day. Perhaps insignificant to most, at the time, I think you can now see why those two scores were important when he marched the team down the field, last night, to set up the game winning FG.
But no, Schoen and Daboll came in as a package and they'll build this thing up together for the Giants' organization. I still believe they need the opportunity to do what they laid out in their plan. Once they have most of the pieces in place, I think we're all going to really like what we'll see. But we're not there yet. I'd venture to guess they are only about 30% of the way there, right now.
Peace!
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 08:00:31 AMI never wanted Daboll fired. I wanted Kafka fired. :ok:
I'm in this mindset! I don't like Kafka's playcalling and game planning!
Didn't like it last night despite the win!
Our OLINE is not good and you send DeVito out wide with SB in the wild cat late in the game when we need to move the ball? Now is not the time to get cute!
Kafka is not back next year is my prediction! Dabs hires the Bills OC they just canned and who he wanted to begin with but the Bills blocked. Could be wrong! Wouldn't be the first time lol
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 07:59:38 AMBarkley's fumble was inexcusable and the team prevailed despite that.
Barkley has been a feast-or-famine type of runner since he got here, in large part due to being hit behind the line of scrimmage on way too many of his rush attempts. If excuses, err umm, reasons can be made for DJ and his inefficiencies, then the same needs to be afforded to the most talented offensive player we have had the past five years.
Barkley makes every QB's job easier because the defense knows that he is the focal point of the offense and they don't respect the QB no matter who it is. They crowd the line to stop 26. Period. When he's on the field, Tommy TD has favorable coverage options. To his credit, he has made good reads and excellent throws.
To suggest that Barkley is somehow a problem with this offense and is potentially holding TD Tommy back, I wholeheartedly disagree.
Barkley is a very average RB. Often comes up small when the chips are down or the game on the line. Ive seen him duck oncharging lineman he should have blocked
His record on 1st down is awful- another Dayne for no gain
He is wayyyyyyyyyyyy overrated
He has value but the Barkley hype is way over the top. Im sick of watching one mediocre RB get 99% of the snaps and dont buy the opponents overreacting to Barkley story....Balderdash!
Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 12, 2023, 08:27:28 AMI'm in this mindset! I don't like Kafka's playcalling and game planning!
Didn't like it last night despite the win!
Our OLINE is not good and you send DeVito out wide with SB in the wild cat late in the game when we need to move the ball? Now is not the time to get cute!
Kafka is not back next year is my prediction! Dabs hires the Bills OC they just canned and who he wanted to begin with but the Bills blocked. Could be wrong! Wouldn't be the first time lol
My issue with Dab/Ka is that despite knowing how porous the offensive line was, they made zero attempts to try and provide additional support. Or, if they did, they stopped trying. At least until the kid started playing. The offensive play calls were more aggressive and not safe. Sure, part of that was Jones but they should have also told him to take some shots downfield.
I mentioned in the game thread that I don't recall the guard pulling on a run like Bredeson did on Saquon's early run for 10 yards. That's the stuff that was missing earlier in the season and the reason I was fed up with Kafka. The calls he's made since Tommy TD has been starting are much different than what he was calling earlier in the season. If he had called games like this sooner, I think we would have been better off.
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 08:32:52 AMBarkley is a very average RB. Often comes up small when the chips are down or the game on the line. Ive seen him duck oncharging lineman he should have blocked
His record on 1st down is awful- another Dayne for no gain
He is wayyyyyyyyyyyy overrated
He has value but the Barkley hype is way over the top. Im sick of watching one mediocre RB get 99% of the snaps and dont buy the opponents overreacting to Barkley story....Balderdash!
Well, all I can say is that we root for the same team but have very different views. :goteam: :cheers:
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 08:38:29 AMWell, all I can say is that we root for the same team but have very different views. :goteam: :cheers:
Look Barkley was picked #1
projected for a Gold Jacket
Mara loves him
Do you think he has really held up his half of the bargain? Compare his numbers with the leagues best year after year. Better yet compare his numbers to Tiki's
He is an average back...Stats dont often lie.....certainly not here. There is no such position as "face of the franchise"
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 08:45:00 AMLook Barkley was picked #1
projected for a Gold Jacket
Mara loves him
Do you think he has really held up his half of the bargain? Compare his numbers with the leagues best year after year. Better yet compare his numbers to Tiki's
He is an average back...Stats dont often lie.....certainly not here. There is no such position as "face of the franchise"
I can't change your mind. Your view is your view and I respect that. :cheers:
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 11, 2023, 11:55:11 PMOr are we done with that ridiculous narrative after he's taken a QB void of any and all elite traits and won games with him?
Who are you talking about? From what I have seen, the membership, by an overwhelming majority, was NOT calling for Daboll to be fired.
I just can't understand the Barkley being average talk. If he's drafted to Buffalo, KC, or San Fran he would have been the best back in yhe league period. Instead he was drafted here, and was a large reason why we were even remotely relevant last year as the 1st half of the season he was easily the best back in football. Yes he frustrates everyone occasionally but average is kinda absurd.
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 07:39:15 AMIf I might inject.....that is a strange thing to say about a QB who is improving by the game
Has us on a playoff possible trajectory and has everyone in the organization turned around
What would you like to see? Walk on water?
Yesterday was extremely windy and did not lend itself to long downfield passing which I predict will be his next transformation. Who thought he could run the ball like that? He has a magical arm. Elite? Close enough
If you want to call someone out its Barkley
He fails to advance the ball on 80% of his carries, cannot break a tackle and yesterday fumbled the ball with no one near him nearly costing us the game
Tommy had to pull one more rabbit out of his hat to correct that hot mess.
Barkley should be part of a rotation. This desire to keep him out there for 99% of the snaps despite his faults is mindboggling- making Tomy's job unnecessarily more difficult
I submit our inability to sustain drives comes directly from Barkleys inability to run to a manageable 3rd down attempt. We are always in 3rd and long
Barkley literally broke through a tackle to score one of his...checks notes...two TDs in the game. He screwed up at the end but there wouldn't be an end to screw up if not for him.
Your cousin Tommy is not playing great...he's just not the train wreck the Giants were dealing with before. If not for a ridiculous amount of turnovers by the opposition these past few weeks they'd still be losing games. It's not like the offense is carrying this team, if anything the defense is. That last TD was the first time I looked at him and thought THAT is what a QB should look like. And it's great that he did it. But we are far away from handing him the keys to the castle.
Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2023, 08:00:31 AMI never wanted Daboll fired. I wanted Kafka fired. :ok:
Tim: Although IMO Kafka called a nice game last night, he also called that ONE stupid play (at a crucial time) where the Giants sent DeVito flanked out wide on first down. It was just a wasted down. I'm sure there's a variation for situations when the CB is backed off and somebody throws him a pass, and maybe they just showed that play so they can use the variant in the near future, but a close game is IMO not the time to waste downs. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on December 12, 2023, 12:18:32 PMTim: Although IMO Kafka called a nice game last night, he also called that ONE stupid play (at a crucial time) where the Giants sent DeVito flanked out wide on first down. It was just a wasted down. I'm sure there's a variation for situations when the CB is backed off and somebody throws him a pass, and maybe they just showed that play so they can use the variant in the near future, but a close game is IMO not the time to waste downs. Bob
Totally agree, Bob. I'm all for a little wrinkle but that was just plain foolishness. Was he planning to actually throw to DeVito and potentially get him killed??? There's no situation in my mind where you would put your QB out on the edge like that. Otherwise, I was OK with the majority of the play calling.
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 12, 2023, 10:17:00 AMBarkley literally broke through a tackle to score one of his...checks notes...two TDs in the game. He screwed up at the end but there wouldn't be an end to screw up if not for him.
Your cousin Tommy is not playing great...he's just not the train wreck the Giants were dealing with before. If not for a ridiculous amount of turnovers by the opposition these past few weeks they'd still be losing games. It's not like the offense is carrying this team, if anything the defense is. That last TD was the first time I looked at him and thought THAT is what a QB should look like. And it's great that he did it. But we are far away from handing him the keys to the castle.
You are right. Tommy could win the SB and Mara would insist Jones get the keys back in September. Mara is and has always been our biggest problem in Giantsville. I think he thinks of Jones as part of the family. Such a clean cut QB
Oh well.....live for the present. La Dolce Vita
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 12:31:05 PMTommy could win the SB and Mara would insist Jones get the keys back in September.
Oh well.....live for the present. La Dolce Vita
BC: I believe you've gone a little "overboard" on this one. lol
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 12, 2023, 12:31:05 PMYou are right. Tommy could win the SB and Mara would insist Jones get the keys back in September. Mara is and has always been our biggest problem in Giantsville. I think he thinks of Jones as part of the family. Such a clean cut QB
Oh well.....live for the present. La Dolce Vita
Just like his father the franchise does best when someone not named Mara is making the big decisions.
I'm happy they got some wins but let's not go overboard. The three wins are against teams that are a combined 13-26. I give the coach credit for keeping them from giving up and revolting. I just hope the brass can add the right pieces moving forward.
Quote from: Gmo11 on December 12, 2023, 10:17:00 AMBarkley literally broke through a tackle to score one of his...checks notes...two TDs in the game. He screwed up at the end but there wouldn't be an end to screw up if not for him.
Your cousin Tommy is not playing great...he's just not the train wreck the Giants were dealing with before. If not for a ridiculous amount of turnovers by the opposition these past few weeks they'd still be losing games. It's not like the offense is carrying this team, if anything the defense is. That last TD was the first time I looked at him and thought THAT is what a QB should look like. And it's great that he did it. But we are far away from handing him the keys to the castle.
Is anyone calling for him to be handed the keys?
I think the highest that anyone has gone is to the effect "let's see what we have".
TD is a fantastic, feel good story.
My thought is, if the lad can win himself a back up gig, here or elsewhere, then that's great for him.
If he can be another outlier, and develop into something more I'll be delighted.
But his achievements thus far, such as they are, are showing DJ in a not great light.
I'm not making direct comparisons here, but Brady's early success was on the back of a high end D, rather than Tom Terrific putting the team on his back.