If Nabers makes DJ a top 10 QB I will be jacked as I like DJ. If he throws for 2,500 yards, 16 TDs, 9 INTs and is sacked 60+ times, I will really wonder about this pick.
You have to pull DJ out from under the Bus Nabers threw him under first.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 25, 2024, 10:07:33 PMIf Nabers makes DJ a top 10 QB I will be jacked as I like DJ. If he throws for 2,500 yards, 16 TDs, 9 INTs and is sacked 60+ times, I will really wonder about this pick.
If the line proves adequate, the receiving trio of Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson should finally give DJ his first set of NFL-caliber receivers since he got to the NFL.
If Jones can stay healthy and he can overcome the trauma of last season, then there is a potential for Jones to be a top-10 guy
Quote from: Ed Vette on April 25, 2024, 10:11:33 PMYou have to pull DJ out from under the Bus Nabers threw him under first.
I don't think that quote was meant for Jones...I think it was meant for Devito and Taylor
Quote from: Ed Vette on April 25, 2024, 10:11:33 PMYou have to pull DJ out from under the Bus Nabers threw him under first.
What's this about?
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 25, 2024, 10:14:52 PMIf the line proves adequate, the receiving trio of Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson should finally give DJ his first set of NFL-caliber receivers since he got to the NFL.
If Jones can stay healthy and he can overcome the trauma of last season, then there is a potential for Jones to be a top-10 guy
I think you may want to add to your post - if Jones matures, learns how to make quicker reads, throws balls away instead of taking hits, learns to not lock onto receivers, then we will be in lockstep
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 25, 2024, 10:14:52 PMIf the line proves adequate, the receiving trio of Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson should finally give DJ his first set of NFL-caliber receivers since he got to the NFL.
If Jones can stay healthy and he can overcome the trauma of last season, then there is a potential for Jones to be a top-10 guy
If the line proves adequate (by which I mean average) it will finally give DJ his first NFL-caliber offensive line since he got to the NFL. If that happens and they get a modicum of health I think top ten is not out of the question.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 25, 2024, 10:14:52 PMIf the line proves adequate, the receiving trio of Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson should finally give DJ his first set of NFL-caliber receivers since he got to the NFL.
If Jones can stay healthy and he can overcome the trauma of last season, then there is a potential for Jones to be a top-10 guy
If DJ continues to throw 2 yard passes on 3rd and 12, Nabers will not have mattered. DJ needs to throw downfield now.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 25, 2024, 10:23:23 PMIf DJ continues to throw 2 yard passes on 3rd and 12, Nabers will not have mattered. DJ needs to throw downfield now.
Hi Philo,
DJ has played in the NFL for five seasons now.
In two of those years when he had the 17th and 18th ranked offensive line he produced solid numbers.
If they give him just an average o line this year, combined with Nabers, who can take a 5 yards slant for 60, DJ will have a solid bounce back year, and the Giants will win again.
Please be well
Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 25, 2024, 10:26:19 PMHi Philo,
DJ has played in the NFL for five seasons now.
In two of those years when he had the 17th and 18th ranked offensive line he produced solid numbers.
If they give him just an average o line this year, combined with Nabers, who can take a 5 yards slant for 60, DJ will have a solid bounce back year, and the Giants will win again.
Please be well
Let's hope. Schoen job is counting on it.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 25, 2024, 10:22:09 PMIf the line proves adequate (by which I mean average) it will finally give DJ his first NFL-caliber offensive line since he got to the NFL. If that happens and they get a modicum of health I think top ten is not out of the question.
Don't think top 10 is realistic, but top 15 is.
Nabers goes on the field with a warrior mindset. He plays WR like Payton ran the football and finds ways to get the ball and move the ball. He's a scrapper that will fight for the ball...harder than whoever is trying to stop him
We haven't seen the best of DJ. I'm hoping Bricillo can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, and that the two newcomers to the line will gel with the rest of the line
One thing we know...DJ will be out there early and often to work with Nabers so that they will be on the same page
Will he be better? Probably. But that's not exactly a high bar to reach. Will he be excellent? Probably not. He's just not a great QB. Few are. He has flashes that make you realize that the talent is there but that quickly is followed by about 3 or 4 crappy games to bring you back to reality.
They will need to move on from Jones soon but clearly they didn't feel like these other 3 QBs were more valuable than Nabers. I tend to agree that Nabers is a special talent and tough to pass up at #6...but until they get him a guy that con consistently get him the ball there's not much he can really do to help generate wins.
Will he be better? Yes, Nabers should provide some nice YAC to bolster DJ's abysmal passing production. Will he magically elevate DJ into the high-volume passer required to compete for SBs in the modern era...NO!
Probably marginally, but picking Nabers isn't so much about DJ as it is about the next QB.
No.
I think Nabers along with a better OL will cause a significant improvement in the passing game. Not sure I see top 10 though.
Over/under what week the complaints start to roll in via the wrs because the ball isn't getting to them?
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 26, 2024, 07:42:26 AMOver/under what week the complaints start to roll in via the wrs because the ball isn't getting to them?
This QB doesn't seem to have a problem getting the ball to his receivers
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 08:02:40 AMThis QB doesn't seem to have a problem getting the ball to his receivers
Thank you for that Rich, I needed a laugh so early in the morning.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 26, 2024, 07:42:26 AMOver/under what week the complaints start to roll in via the wrs because the ball isn't getting to them?
Is Nabers the kind of guy that will flap his arms, talk smack to his quarterback, and make remarks to the media if things aren't going well?
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 26, 2024, 08:35:38 AMIs Nabers the kind of guy that will flap his arms, talk smack to his quarterback, and make remarks to the media if things aren't going well?
Don't know. But I think we'll find out.
Danny Dimes lives for another day. THIS cat has more than nine lives LOL
Hey on cup half full side, Danny threw for 24 TDs vs 12 INTs as a rookie when main issue was ball security which was cleaned up.
Let's be honest, Giants offense has been an absolute disaster for Danny's tenure. In 50 years of watching football what Danny had to play with between terrible OL talent combined with terrible coaching, absolutely no WRs to speak of, ranks with some of the worst offense I have ever seen.
Giants got Bricillo. I call him 'Brillo pad' because he is going to scrub the stink off of the Bobby Johnson techniques on these poor lineman. Might be our best acquisition of the offseason. 85 sacks should drastically drop.
THen they add an Ace #1 pitcher (WR) to a rotation that lacked an ace starter.
Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson is a nice blend off deep speed , gadget separation guy and a true WR1 who can line up all over the formation and dominate in multiple ways.
:knockONwood:
Giants might actually look like an offense again if DJ can stay healthy.
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 26, 2024, 08:54:29 AMDanny Dimes lives for another day. THIS cat has more than nine lives LOL
Hey on cup half full side, Danny threw for 24 TDs vs 12 INTs as a rookie when main issue was ball security which was cleaned up.
Let's be honest, Giants offense has been an absolute disaster for Danny's tenure. In 50 years of watching football what Danny had to play with between terrible OL talent combined with terrible coaching, absolutely no WRs to speak of, ranks with some of the worst offense I have ever seen.
Giants got Bricillo. I call him 'Brillo pad' because he is going to scrub the stink off of the Bobby Johnson techniques on these poor lineman. Might be our best acquisition of the offseason. 85 sacks should drastically drop.
THen they add an Ace #1 pitcher (WR) to a rotation that lacked an ace starter.
Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson is a nice blend off deep speed , gadget separation guy and a true WR1 who can line up all over the formation and dominate in multiple ways.
:knockONwood:
Giants might actually look like an offense again if DJ can stay healthy.
This is an excellent perspective, Mickey. If the team can enjoy reasonably good health and break their decade-plus-long trend of bad offensive line play, we may finally get to see what Daniel Jones is truly capable of.
The answer to the question is if Jones is not better then he will not be the QB for long. Drew Lock will take over.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 09:05:21 AMThis is an excellent perspective, Mickey. If the team can enjoy reasonably good health and break their decade-plus-long trend of bad offensive line play, we may finally get to see what Daniel Jones is truly capable of.
I think to complete this rebuild on offense at least for this season, the Giants need to draft a good RB and a Guard. Draft Jaylen Wright to blow the top off of defenses with his speed ala Achane and draft a Guard who can step in Day 1 and be a good starter. Someone like Zak Zinter.
I just don't hope the Giants get stupid and waste a draft pick on a Spencer Rattler or Joe Milton type QB. We don't need a lottery ticket. We have other positions to address. If after 2025, DJ is still not getting it done, then it will be 100% QB focus.
I definitely want to see a RB drafted today. If not no lower than the 4th round.
Quote from: TDToomer on April 26, 2024, 09:26:54 AMI definitely want to see a RB drafted today. If not no lower than the 4th round.
A breakaway, pass catching RB would be a nice piece to add to this offense which lost one nice piece in Barkley and needs a healthy replacement. Eric Gray is not the answer.
Maybe a bit, but I don't think that's the point. DJ is here for one more year, the new WR is a long term piece of the puzzle.
This move was not some endorsement of Jones, it was making the best of the situation. I doubt Jones is starting at the end of the year
Quote from: Philosophers on April 26, 2024, 09:30:27 AMA breakaway, pass catching RB would be a nice piece to add to this offense which lost one nice piece in Barkley and needs a healthy replacement. Eric Gray is not the answer.
I want a guy that can get tough yards between the tackles.
While there is nada to be gained by guessing, if DJ stays healthy and the Oline does a much better job in protection, Nabers should make the Receiving corps much better, indeed topnotch. With 6 QBs taken in the first 12, if that wasn't always the plan, tell me what was?
Unless DJ proves to be no worse than at least half of those new guys that is, have a playoff game winning season- or whatever we decide is so- the Giants will exchange him for the money saved and start over. That is the never in doubt harsh reality of it.
Cheers!
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 09:05:21 AMThis is an excellent perspective, Mickey. If the team can enjoy reasonably good health and break their decade-plus-long trend of bad offensive line play, we may finally get to see what Daniel Jones is truly capable of.
I don't blame the nay-sayers on DJ because you see a bad offense and some invariably just think some HAS to be the QB.
Last year the excuses were SUPPOSED to be over but one the very things folks who thought DJ had talent and those who didn't were saying is let's see him with a better OL.
Most blue feathered fans all admitted he could be better with a better OL. Problem is not only wasn't the OL better when the bar already was pretty low, it was WORSE!!! :what: :angryfire: :banghead:
So if the logic was I'll wait and see when the OL is functional but it turned to be even worse, how can we judge the guy so harshly.
Look I wanted Drake Maye but not because I hate DJ. Its cuz Drake when I watch that tape has 'top 5' QB in NFL written all over him and Daboll could make him Josh 2.0. But short of that when Dimes is a hummin' he's a fine QB in his own right. And one maaaaaybe you could win a Bowl with. My two cents anyways!
I just hope the neck is ok. I worry a bit about another injury and then it's game over.
Healthy though I'd love this year to be a Danny Dimes REDEMPTION TOUR.... :yes:
Quote from: Philosophers on April 25, 2024, 10:23:23 PMIf DJ continues to throw 2 yard passes on 3rd and 12, Nabers will not have mattered. DJ needs to throw downfield now.
I mean DJ didn't have trouble throwing downfield when his OL was blocking even a little better than last years cluster**** That isn't my worry. It's simply staying healthy but that Schoen just brought in 5 OL and the OL coach. That OL coach may have been the biggest acquisition of the offseason including Nabers and I ain't kiddin'
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 26, 2024, 11:34:40 AMI mean DJ didn't have trouble throwing downfield when his OL was blocking even a little better than last years cluster**** That isn't my worry. It's simply staying healthy but that Schoen just brought in 5 OL and the OL coach. That OL coach may have been the biggest acquisition of the offseason including Nabers and I ain't kiddin'
He does not naturally downfield like some throwers and see a typical NFL tight window and throws it there. Instead he bails and throws a much shorter outlet pass. He needs to be bolder mentally. I think he is plenty accurate to make those throws.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 26, 2024, 11:37:40 AMHe does not naturally downfield like some throwers and see a typical NFL tight window and throws it there. Instead he bails and throws a much shorter outlet pass. He needs to be bolder mentally. I think he is plenty accurate to make those throws.
Yet he led the league in tight window throws for like two years under Coach Shurm and had no issues throwing down the field.
No QB is playing confidently behind an OL that gives up 85 sacks. That's like historic level of stink
Quote from: Philosophers on April 26, 2024, 11:37:40 AMHe does not naturally downfield like some throwers and see a typical NFL tight window and throws it there. Instead he bails and throws a much shorter outlet pass. He needs to be bolder mentally. I think he is plenty accurate to make those throws.
The question is, is Jones shell-shocked from being hit, or is he is more worried about turning the ball over?
Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 26, 2024, 11:41:51 AMYet he led the league in tight window throws for like two years under Coach Shurm and had no issues throwing down the field.
No QB is playing confidently behind an OL that gives up 85 sacks. That's like historic level of stink
He was drafted to play in Pat Shurmur's offense. Shurmer is gone.
Look, Jones is what he is, an average passer who doesn't throw a very good long ball. On 10-15 yard passes when the guy is wide open, he hits him, but, to me, he is sort of hesitant to throw and let the WR make a play. He is sloppy with his throws many times and just looks to run a bit too much. Can we win with that, maybe for a while, but winning isn't what we want, a championship is and we will never achieve that with Jones. He just has too many flaws.
Take any average QB, line him up with a very good OL and very good WRs and he had better succeed. Look at Dak on Dallas. He has one of the best OLs, maybe the best WR in the NFL, and an excellent running game, and yet
Dak can't get them even deep into the playoffs. Does anyone here really think Jones is better than Dak? and Dak is basically average with a lot of help.
Sorry guys, the goal is a championship and we will never achieve that with Jones under center no matter how much talent we surround him with.
Yessir. I don't think we hear too many excuses next year when Jones doesn't come through. I just wonder how and when we will find that guy if next year's draft class is subpar? This draft looks like solid work by Schoen and Daboll along with the Jax trade. Slowly but surely we might get to being a "QB away" type team.
Quote from: StompYouOT on April 26, 2024, 10:30:10 PMYessir. I don't think we hear too many excuses next year when Jones doesn't come through. I just wonder how and when we will find that guy if next year's draft class is subpar? This draft looks like solid work by Schoen and Daboll along with the Jax trade. Slowly but surely we might get to being a "QB away" type team.
I believe we may be looking to the 2026 draft and will tread water until then.
I'm guessing Jones is hoping so.
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 27, 2024, 05:39:42 AMI believe we may be looking to the 2026 draft and will tread water until then.
If they are treading water for the next 2 years, do you think Daboll is still around for the new QB?
Quote from: Philosophers on April 25, 2024, 10:07:33 PMIf Nabers makes DJ a top 10 QB I will be jacked as I like DJ. If he throws for 2,500 yards, 16 TDs, 9 INTs and is sacked 60+ times, I will really wonder about this pick.
I Think the pick certainly helps dj, but also puts pressure on him to perform. if he doesnt, we just spent a huge amount of draft capital on nabers, and you HAVE to go get him a qb that can maximize his talent. it puts just as much pressure on jones, as it takes off.
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 26, 2024, 08:35:38 AMIs Nabers the kind of guy that will flap his arms, talk smack to his quarterback, and make remarks to the media if things aren't going well?
why i preferred odunze. much better personality. but time will tell.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 27, 2024, 07:35:37 AMIf they are treading water for the next 2 years, do you think Daboll is still around for the new QB?
That's a damn good question and I almost included it in my comment. I'd have to say yes because Schoen is just as culpable. But I never know what John and Chris Mara are thinking despite all the presumption that surrounds them.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 27, 2024, 07:35:37 AMIf they are treading water for the next 2 years, do you think Daboll is still around for the new QB?
Hard to say.
I don't think Jones will be the QB for the next two years, first of all. It's not impossible, but my base case is he will be gone after this year. Even if he plays like he played in 2022, which I know some here think was really good, I think they will be looking to go in a different direction after the season is over. He'll have to play multiple cuts better than he has ever played before to stay in my opinion.
Of course, if the team is something like 9-8 this year (I am not at all saying they will be, just if), then they'll be in a tough position to draft a QB. They'll be looking at picking up the scraps outside of the top 10, or giving up multiple future first rounders to move up in what figures to be a weaker class than this year. So there is that issue too.
One thing I know for sure is that if they didn't want to preserve the option of cutting Jones after 2024, they would have restructured his contract to not have to absorb a $47mm hit this year. So unless they suddenly do that (I don't know what the deadline is), we know that they're not all-in on him as far as the long term goes. We also pretty much know that they tried to move up to three and weren't able to. All the reliable sources like Rapaport have stated that as basically fact.
So as far as Daboll and Schoen go, I think if they move on from Jones after 2024, they're not going to be in a position where they're expected to suddenly contend with a rookie QB. I guess if this season is a total catastrophe Mara could just clean house, as we have seen him do before, but I think that is far from being base case.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 27, 2024, 08:24:50 AMHard to say.
I don't think Jones will be the QB for the next two years, first of all. It's not impossible, but my base case is he will be gone after this year. Even if he plays like he played in 2022, which I know some here think was really good, I think they will be looking to go in a different direction after the season is over. He'll have to play multiple cuts better than he has ever played before to stay in my opinion.
Of course, if the team is something like 9-8 this year (I am not at all saying they will be, just if), then they'll be in a tough position to draft a QB. They'll be looking at picking up the scraps outside of the top 10, or giving up multiple future first rounders to move up in what figures to be a weaker class than this year. So there is that issue too.
One thing I know for sure is that if they didn't want to preserve the option of cutting Jones after 2024, they would have restructured his contract to not have to absorb a $47mm hit this year. So unless they suddenly do that (I don't know what the deadline is), we know that they're not all-in on him as far as the long term goes. We also pretty much know that they tried to move up to three and weren't able to. All the reliable sources like Rapaport have stated that as basically fact.
So as far as Daboll and Schoen go, I think if they move on from Jones after 2024, they're not going to be in a position where they're expected to suddenly contend with a rookie QB. I guess if this season is a total catastrophe Mara could just clean house, as we have seen him do before, but I think that is far from being base case.
I don't see Mara cleaning house no matter how bad the record is unless it's accompanied by a media meltdown and a lot of dirty laundry.
If they can solidify the OL, establish a running game and pass pro....and he still cannot develop a consistent downfield passing threat and manage to stay healthy...it's time to move on!
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