If we draft Rome Odunze as our number one WR
Does D Jones throw him the ball ?
He main thing is contested catches
And.we all.learn that D Jones does not throw contested catches
If we draft Maye he can miss him by the side of a barn. If we draft JJ, he can bird dog him and get picked. Draft Williams and if Odunze drops a pass, and loses a game, he will climb into the stands and cry in his mommy's arms. Draft Daniels and he will throw the ball, then run past him and make the catch. Penix will pull a hammy and Nix will check down.
Maybe it's better to stay with the devil we know. No guarantees in life as a Giants fan.
DJ will do what he's told. Two years ago, he was told, "you can't throw so many interceptions", and lo and behold, he had one of the least number of interceptions of any QB. Then last year, was going (supposed) to be, "throw to Waller", but the OL was worse, and he spent a lot of time running for his life...Waller got hurt...then DJ got hurt, and the Giants sucked
If DJ is healthy, he will do exactly what he's told to do and if we get Odunze, and he's told to throw at him, he will...providing he's not running for his life again and injuries piling up, as seems to be the nature of our team
No he won't, even in 2022 he didn't throw the ball beyond 6-8 yards. So it's not like it was just 2023 when the line was bad, it happened in 2022 too. The devil we know refuses to throw deep and it's absurd. It's why people thought tyrod played so much better because he actually threw the ball deep when Jones wouldn't. It's why teams basically baited Jones to throw deep and made fun of him afterwards. They solved him period.
This same thing happened when we got Golladay, and Waller, we thought things would change but Jones can't read defenses well enough to throw the ball in tight spaces consistently.
Hyatt and Odunze will be completely wasted with Jones.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 14, 2024, 09:27:52 PMNo he won't, even in 2022 he didn't throw the ball beyond 6-8 yards. So it's not like it was just 2023 when the line was bad, it happened in 2022 too. The devil we know refuses to throw deep and it's absurd. It's why people thought tyrod played so much better because he actually threw the ball deep when Jones wouldn't. It's why teams basically baited Jones to throw deep and made fun of him afterwards. They solved him period.
This same thing happened when we got Golladay, and Waller, we thought things would change but Jones can't read defenses well enough to throw the ball in tight spaces consistently.
Hyatt and Odunze will be completely wasted with Jones.
So Golladay is on Jones now ??
Waller is on Jones now ? Injury prone and obviously heart not all in it Waller is due to Jones ?
Yes Jones plays it too safe but to say Odunze will be wasted because of Jones is simply absurd
Can they be better with a better QB ? yes def
Was Hodgins wasted with Jones ? Or did he become a surprise pickup ??
And not many think Taylor did better than Jones... He just played different than Jones and too many they liked seeing something different. But Taylor was not good
Quote from: killarich on April 14, 2024, 09:47:19 PMSo Golladay is on Jones now ??
Waller is on Jones now ? Injury prone and obviously heart not all in it Waller is due to Jones ?
Yes Jones plays it too safe but to say Odunze will be wasted because of Jones is simply absurd
Can they be better with a better QB ? yes def
Was Hodgins wasted with Jones ? Or did he become a surprise pickup ??
And not many think Taylor did better than Jones... He just played different than Jones and too many they liked seeing something different. But Taylor was not good
They weren't all on Jones but to think Jones play had nothing to do with the downfall of both is kinda laughable. Golladay was a contested catch guy and Jones won't throw that ball, Waller stretches the field and Jones won't throw that ball. Same with Hyatt, he stretches teams vertically but Jones won't throw that ball. I've used the stat before but even in Jones best season 2022, he only threw the ball beyond 20 yards twice by Thanksgiving, that's ridiculous and a waste of the talent we have. Wandale stretched the field and was a yac guy in college along with Hyatt and as long as Jones is qb they will go to waste.
Hodgins had 300 yards, that wasn't a surprise. 300 yards is nothing.
The "Daniel Jones doesn't throw contested passes" myth was created as a way to blame Daniel Jones for Kenny Galladay being signed to a big free-agent contract after injuries had robbed him of his speed.
The reality is that tight window throws are DJ's bread and butter (out of necessity most likely)
Daniel Jones On Short Passes, 2019-2022
data per Next Gen Stats
SEASON TIGHT WINDOW% RANK
2019 17.8% 1st
2020 16.7% 2nd
2021 14.7% 1st
2022 10.3% 10th
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/daniel-jones-breakout-playoffs-future-daboll-giants/
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 15, 2024, 08:13:56 AMThe "Daniel Jones doesn't throw contested passes" myth was created as a way to blame Daniel Jones for Kenny Galladay being signed to a big free-agent contract after injuries had robbed him of his speed.
The reality is that tight window throws are DJ's bread and butter (out of necessity most likely)
Daniel Jones On Short Passes, 2019-2022
data per Next Gen Stats
SEASON TIGHT WINDOW% RANK
2019 17.8% 1st
2020 16.7% 2nd
2021 14.7% 1st
2022 10.3% 10th
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/daniel-jones-breakout-playoffs-future-daboll-giants/
Context.
https://x.com/kayvonojulari/status/1779175338612027432?
Quote from: ralphpal1 on April 14, 2024, 07:17:56 PMIf we draft Rome Odunze as our number one WR
Does D Jones throw him the ball ?
He main thing is contested catches
And.we all.learn that D Jones does not throw contested catches
he may have been told not to throw them the coaches may not have felt the wr's had the ability to win those 50/50 battles with most DB's.
Rome won't build up the Giants in a day. :D
Do we really not understand that unless Daniel Jones comes back healthy and has remarkable success this season, anything less in terms of cost/performance will ensure that he will not be the Giants QB, or on the roster in the future?
If so, do we- even the most biased of us- not recognize that Schoen & Co. must justify what is still owed to DJ in terms of both money and the best support they can give him re Oline pass protection, and improved WR skills whether with Ondunze, Nabers, or Harrison Jr.?
Whether they will draft a WR at 6 and thus join the Mock WAG consensus, or do otherwise in meeting with our approval, we will know in 12 days and probably no sooner.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on April 15, 2024, 11:59:48 AMDo we really not understand that unless Daniel Jones comes back healthy and has remarkable success this season, anything less in terms of cost/performance will ensure that he will not be the Giants QB, or on the roster in the future?
If so, do we- even the most biased of us- not recognize that Schoen & Co. must justify what is still owed to DJ in terms of both money and the best support they can give him re Oline pass protection, and improved WR skills whether with Ondunze, Nabers, or Harrison Jr.?
Whether they will draft a WR at 6 and thus join the Mock WAG consensus, or do otherwise in meeting with our approval, we will know in 12 days and probably no sooner.
Cheers!
Larry,
Well said. I will say, short of a prearranged trade-up option, not even the Giants know what they will do (no doubt they know their plans based on the possible scenarios), until the first five picks play out.
Fyi. Stats from 2023 season:
G Rec Yds Avg TD
Odunze 15 92 1640 17.8 13
Nabers 13 89 1569 17.6 14
Harrison 12 67 1211 18.1 14
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on April 15, 2024, 12:24:10 PMFyi. Stats from 2023 season:
G Rec Yds Avg TD
Odunze 15 92 1640 17.8 13
Nabers 13 89 1569 17.6 14
Harrison 12 67 1211 18.1 14
Cheers!
My question Larry about those stats for Nabers is that he played slot 50% of thr time. How much production of his came from the slot vs X vs Z? My gut tells me his slot production is disproportionately higher compared to X or Z. If true, i think he is less of a fit given Robinson on the team.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 15, 2024, 12:47:43 PMMy question Larry about those stats for Nabers is that he played slot 50% of thr time. How much production of his came from the slot vs X vs Z? My gut tells me his slot production is disproportionately higher compared to X or Z. If true, i think he is less of a fit given Robinson on the team.
I think his ability to line up anywhere is one of his strengths. Wan'Dale took a lot of snaps out wide at Kentucky. With Nabers, they can move everyone around and keep Defenses guessing. And if Waller decides to play in 2024 and can maintain his heath through the season......what's up with that anyway? Is Waller retiring or not?
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 15, 2024, 02:04:57 PMI think his ability to line up anywhere is one of his strengths. Wan'Dale took a lot of snaps out wide at Kentucky. With Nabers, they can move everyone around and keep Defenses guessing. And if Waller decides to play in 2024 and can maintain his heath through the season......what's up with that anyway? Is Waller retiring or not?
Waller is still an unknown (at least publicly, the Giants may be keeping it quiet for the draft)
As for slot WR, the slot is an easier position to play. You are lined up off the line of scrimmage (which makes it easier to get off the LOS jams), and unlike the outside, where the boundary helps the CB, slot receivers have a two-way go. Plus, slot CBs tend not to be as good as the ones playing outside.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 15, 2024, 02:04:57 PMI think his ability to line up anywhere is one of his strengths. Wan'Dale took a lot of snaps out wide at Kentucky. With Nabers, they can move everyone around and keep Defenses guessing. And if Waller decides to play in 2024 and can maintain his heath through the season......what's up with that anyway? Is Waller retiring or not?
My concern is if they play Nabers at slot, they still lack an outside the hashmarks go up and make a catch typebWR.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 15, 2024, 12:47:43 PMMy question Larry about those stats for Nabers is that he played slot 50% of the time. How much production of his came from the slot vs X vs Z? My gut tells me his slot production is disproportionately higher compared to X or Z. If true, i think he is less of a fit given Robinson on the team.
I know of nothing, nor have I seen anything to suggest that Nabers played slot anything like 50 percent of the time, Joseph. Indeed, he rarely ever did.
Aside from agreeing with Mitch that it would hardly matter if he did- just look at his production- Nabers was LSU's wide side Z-Receiver. That, by the way, was where OBJ played at LSU and initially for the Giants. That was until they added Rueben Randle and decided to move OBJ to the X-. Thereafter, it didn't take long before they started toggling him between X, Z, and Slot.
I may be sticking my neck out, and I am an Odunze fan- but I think Nabers can be every bit as good a pass catcher as was OBJ.
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on April 15, 2024, 07:22:00 PMI know of nothing, nor have I seen anything to suggest that Nabers played slot anything like 50 percent of the time, Joseph. Indeed, he rarely ever did.
Aside from agreeing with Mitch that it would hardly matter if he did- just look at his production- Nabers was LSU's wide side Z-Receiver. That, by the way, was where OBJ played at LSU and initially for the Giants. That was until they added Rueben Randle and decided to move OBJ to the X-. Thereafter, it didn't take long before they started toggling him between X, Z, and Slot.
I may be sticking my neck out, and I am an Odunze fan- but I think Nabers can be every bit as good a pass catcher as was OBJ.
Cheers!
I think your point of OBJ changing a bit once Randle came in to play X is my question. Frankly Nabers can play all three positions but if he plays Z (Hyatt's position) or slot (Robinson's) we lose one of them and I still dont know who plays X.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 15, 2024, 02:17:05 PMWaller is still an unknown (at least publicly, the Giants may be keeping it quiet for the draft)
I don't know all that's going on but from a fan's point of view this Hamlet-esque stuff is really ticking me off.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 15, 2024, 07:27:46 PMI think your point of OBJ changing a bit once Randle came in to play X is my question. Frankly Nabers can play all three positions but if he plays Z (Hyatt's position) or slot (Robinson's) we lose one of them and I still dont know who plays X.
If the Giants add Nabers, he will be WR1 wherever he lines up. That might be at Y in addition to, or in place of Slayton, or X if they decide to switch Hyatt to the Y. Moreover, it's not like SWR is necessarily of lesser importance as that's where we usually find guys like CeeDee Lamb, Keenan Allen, Cooper Kupp, and Adam Thielen.
Exactly where Nabers will play if not as the Y will be decided in due course, if and when. And in the event, it should be thought of as a benefit not a problem.
Cheers!
Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 15, 2024, 08:20:01 PMI don't know all that's going on but from a fan's point of view this Hamlet-esque stuff is really ticking me off.
"Alas, poor Waller! I knew him, Horatio: a fellow
of infinite JEST, of most excellent FANCY...
Cheers!
Anyone know what Nabers hand size is? OBJ was only 5'11" but played X well because he could leap and had 10" hands which are very large for a person his size who could really snatch the ball.
Quote from: Philosophers on April 17, 2024, 06:30:22 PMAnyone know what Nabers hand size is? OBJ was only 5'11" but played X well because he could leap and had 10" hands which are very large for a person his size who could really snatch the ball.
Reported to be 9-7/8".
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 15, 2024, 07:59:55 AMThey weren't all on Jones but to think Jones play had nothing to do with the downfall of both is kinda laughable. Golladay was a contested catch guy and Jones won't throw that ball, Waller stretches the field and Jones won't throw that ball. Same with Hyatt, he stretches teams vertically but Jones won't throw that ball. I've used the stat before but even in Jones best season 2022, he only threw the ball beyond 20 yards twice by Thanksgiving, that's ridiculous and a waste of the talent we have. Wandale stretched the field and was a yac guy in college along with Hyatt and as long as Jones is qb they will go to waste.
Hodgins had 300 yards, that wasn't a surprise. 300 yards is nothing.
It wasnt just 300 yards .... it was a portion of the season ... and he played decent in the playoffs ... we all also thought highly of Bellinger his rookie season
Jones 100% has issues.... but Galloday flop is not on Jones... Waller has barely been here ..and when he has played he almost certainly ailing from something
Lets be real here
Quote from: killarich on April 18, 2024, 09:32:31 AMIt wasnt just 300 yards .... it was a portion of the season ... and he played decent in the playoffs ... we all also thought highly of Bellinger his rookie season
Jones 100% has issues.... but Galloday flop is not on Jones... Waller has barely been here ..and when he has played he almost certainly ailing from something
Lets be real here
So then we haven't been wasting Slayton, and we didn't waste Hyatts rookie year?
Any other team and Slayton is a 1000 yard wr every year and a solid #2. Any other team and Hyatt has a productive rookie year.
Yes a little has to do with the oline but if the qb refuses to go downfield then there's really nothing anyone else can do. Because Slayton and Hyatt ran open a lot last season because teams knew we wouldn't go deep.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 18, 2024, 10:02:25 AMSo then we haven't been wasting Slayton, and we didn't waste Hyatts rookie year?
Any other team and Slayton is a 1000 yard wr every year and a solid #2. Any other team and Hyatt has a productive rookie year.
Yes a little has to do with the oline but if the qb refuses to go downfield then there's really nothing anyone else can do. Because Slayton and Hyatt ran open a lot last season because teams knew we wouldn't go deep.
I agree. The lack of downfield shots was atrocious. No way Hyatt should have had as quiet a year.
https://x.com/bykevinclark/status/1780962540589056190
Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 18, 2024, 10:02:25 AMSo then we haven't been wasting Slayton, and we didn't waste Hyatts rookie year?
Any other team and Slayton is a 1000 yard wr every year and a solid #2. Any other team and Hyatt has a productive rookie year.
Yes a little has to do with the oline but if the qb refuses to go downfield then there's really nothing anyone else can do. Because Slayton and Hyatt ran open a lot last season because teams knew we wouldn't go deep.
How many snaps did Hyatt play his rookie season ? And how many of those were in Jones games ?
I do agree that Jones does not go deep like he should... but Galloday was a bust ... Waller and Hyatt barely played with Jones... This really is NOT a point to be made here