Big Blue Huddle

Mike Francesa's case for why Eli should be in:

Starts at 18:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sXKGKrDCRQ

Quote from: coggs on Today at 08:45:42 PMHave heard a few people over the year refer to "1/4 of the season".  Last game in September.

I see. Makes sense I guess.

The first sentence is odd. Why 0-4 instead of 0-5 or 0-3? Seems like a strangely precise number around which to be predicting "losing the locker room."

Quote from: 4 Aces on Today at 06:04:41 PMSlayton's a coach killer.

How is Slayton a coach killer? How many players have the Giants drafted in the 5th round or later in the last decade who have had more successful Giants careers than Slayton has to this point?

I know this isn't a new topic here, but now that Eli is officially eligible and this subject is currently in the news and national discussion, I thought it would be worth taking a fresh poll to see where people stand.

Does Eli belong in the Hall of Fame?

Please remember, you are voting on what you think SHOULD happen, not what you think WILL happen.

I would love to hear all opinions. Thanks.

There seem to be many that have the view that it's coaching's fault that Hyatt isn't more productive. Is it not possible that maybe he's just not a very good NFL receiver? Not every player who was productive in college and runs a blazing 40 ends up being good in the pros.

Prior to getting here, Burns missed I think a total of three games through his first five seasons in the NFL. The guy has been the model of durability, and now as a Giant he's suddenly hurt very early in the season.

Oh well. I'm sure it's just bad luck.

Connections
Puzzle #467
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It's just a pleasure to watch Rodgers play.

Complete mastery of the position.

I'm not sure which three I'd call, but I know who I don't want. I don't want guys in their mid 70s who have a max lifeline of 2-3 years with the team, and I don't want guys with no NFL experience.

Would you trade Daniel Jones plus an additional first round pick for the guaranteed rights to Arch Manning after the 2025 Texas season right now?

Absolutely not.

Jones is not nearly good enough to justify his cost, and he is not nearly durable enough. I have said before that you can easily replicate Jones in the free agent market (give or take) for a fraction of the price. And that's if you aren't in a position to draft a top QB prospect and put him on a rookie contract, which we might be.

People can argue that the Giants "ruined Jones" if they want to, and maybe there is an element of truth to that, but the fact of the matter is that this is year six now, and it hasn't worked out. We gave him a contract he didn't earn and has not lived up to, and the franchise very badly needs to go in a new direction.

I won't be shocked if he makes it on the first ballot. It's not my base case, but I won't be shocked if it happens. Two time Super Bowl MVP is an extremely rare thing. The company he shares for that distinction is extremely scarce and impressive. I understand a lot more goes into the evaluation than the absolute high points of a candidate's resume, but the high points matter a lot. And Eli's are pretty high.

Quote from: coggs on September 18, 2024, 09:28:52 PMOn my end, it is not that I am a "fan" of Ronnie Barnes.  If he left or was fired tomorrow, I would not care.  I just think people are overrating the role he plays here.  Remember, there is a difference between a player being hurt and being injured.  By the time he warmed-up, it was too late to activate the Practice Squad guy it seems.  If I had to place a wager on what happened in conversation Sunday, I would bet Gano said something like, "It hurts, but I can kick.."  Now, should they have told him to not get involved in the coverage?  Yes.  Would he have had his normal range on fg's?  doubt it, but still a better range than anyone else they had available to kick.

I hear you.

I'm not really isolating the Gano incident though in making the above comment. More the last decade and the giants' big data results versus the league. My comment was more general.

And to be clear I didn't even pin it all on Barnes. I just think when the results of any department in a big organization are consistently worst or near worst in class among the competition over a very large sample, which is 100% the case with the Giants and player health, at some point it's more than fair to question leadership of said department. I mean that happens in any well run organization that tends to get good overall results versus its competitors.

People are obviously free to have whatever subjective opinion they want to have on any topic. I totally respect that, and I would never dream of suggesting otherwise.

I am free, however, to ask questions though, and people may choose to answer them or not, either of which is obviously fine.

What I don't get and what I would love to have help understanding is why the intense defense from fans of Ronnie Barnes? I don't really get this, and I'd love to understand it better.

If it's personal, and you just like him and respect him, and you don't want to see a really nice guy whom you like and respect fired, I can understand that on a personal level. If that's all it is though, at what point does that start to conflict with your interests as a Giants fan who wants the absolute best for this team no matter what?

If it's because you think he's really good at his job and that the criticism of him is unfounded, great, I would love to understand that better. Please help me do so. I am open minded, but the data simply is not on your side in this argument, and we're talking about a very material amount of data, well more than enough from which to draw conclusions.

Here is what I see: I see a justifiably beloved figure within the organization. A man who is not just loved by the players but who has a special relationship with ownership. Any reasonable person who has watched a video with him in it can see pretty quickly that he is a great guy. And I have no doubt that for most of his career he was a great trainer. His reputation is sterling.

But all of the above doesn't mean he's great at his job today. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests he is not. Or, at the very least, the evidence overwhelmingly suggests the Giants do a poor job (relative to the league) at keeping their players healthy, and that characterization is applicable to a very large sample size. He is the leader of the department responsible for this part of the team.

Is it all Barnes' fault? I don't know, but I do know that he is in charge. Generally speaking, in any large organization, when the end results of any one unit are substandard, leadership justifiably gets questioned. If performance is poor, it doesn't automatically mean the person who is at the top is bad at his job, but it usually means something in the process isn't working. And that falls on leadership.

This is how I view Barnes right now. I don't know for sure if he's personally doing a bad job when he come in to work every day. I am pretty confident he is doing his best. That doesn't mean it's good though. And I don't see why people have such a hard time with that. If Barnes is such is such a beloved figure, give him some fancy "senior consultant" title and keep his salary intact and allow him to keep a seat at the table. I'm not suggesting anyone disrespect him. But if the results are not up to scratch, a leadership change is a reasonable thing to call for. We as fans call for it all the time with coaches and GMs. Why would training and medical staff be spared the same judgement?