Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 01:50:18 PMDJ hasn't flashed any more brilliance than Mitch Trubisky or other QBs of their ilk.

Just last year Jones accomplished something no QB in the NFL's 100+ year history ever accomplished (against the Cards)


Jones became the first quarterback ever to throw for 250 yards, rush for 50 yards, throw multiple touchdown passes, rush for a touchdown and not commit a turnover in the second half of a game.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 01:50:18 PMCall me Matt, my friend.  I think we disagree on flashes of brilliance.  DJ hasn't flashed any more brilliance than Mitch Trubisky or other QBs of their ilk. I have maintained for 3+ years that DJ, like virtually all NFL starters, will benefit from improved supporting talent. However, in 60 games, I have yet to witness any element of his game that gives me any confidence he's a championship-caliber QB. IMO, it's very obvious that he is what he is, and has always been.

Again, I really appreciate your post.  Just because we don't agree on this one subject, I look forward to engaging with you on areas we agree.

Thanks Matt, I see some really really pretty balls come off of that arm. Throws with zip, throws on the run , in tight windows etc. Is he perfect? Absolutley not! But he is absolutely capable of making high level NFL QB plays with his arm and his legs. I truly think it's there. The hope is the consistency part increases with WRs who beat their defenders more consistently and a properly coached OL that more consistently protects than be a free for all turnstile right to the QB.

I think we DO agree that the support system around him has a strong chance to be significantly better. If we are in agreement there then we probably can both agree this year will be a 'cementer' either way. Either DJ balls out or he continues his inconsistency and the 'excuse' of no-talent or proper support around him is gone.

Cancelling Total Access - wow.

They sold this product internationally. It was carried by Sky Sports in the UK for the vast majority of the season.

I haven't seen the names involved in this latest round of cuts, but I wonder what is going on with all the shake up going on at NFLN? Something has to be brewing to "upset the applecart" so to speak with this much turnover.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on Today at 01:29:53 PMThanks King! I appreciate all the varying opinions here on the matter. As long as folks make arguments that have some level of substantiation to it, I'm cool with it.


The way I see it is no two QB situations are exactly alike. And the level of ineptitude that DJ has had at OL coaching, OL talent and the WR talent is pretty much unprecedented in my 40 some odd years watching Giant football. With that said, I can draw at least a bit of correlation when I see a cat like Tua or Josh Allen or Geno or when you see a guy like Baker Mayfield get some OL protection and go from not really having a top WR1 to having one and all of a sudden they go from kinda mediocre to franchise looking QBs. Its not a perfect analogy mind you, but there is enough similarity (at least in my perspective) to where I have hope for DJ in a better situation. It's not like none of us have never seen flashes of brilliance from him. Everyone of us has. The kid has thrown some absolute laser throws that crossed the 'i's and that dotted the 't's!

 I just don't think that's an unfair assessment for some to have even though it's taken this 'abnormally' long time to improve the offense around him.

Lastly confidence is a very interesting thing when it comes to a QB. Let's see what a significantly better coached OL combined with a hopefully no doubter elite WR1 in Nabers , a 2nd year Hyatt, a 3rd year Wan'Dale do for DJ.

I think we all can at least agree the support system has a chance to be significantly better in numerous areas for DJ this year.

Call me Matt, my friend.  I think we disagree on flashes of brilliance.  DJ hasn't flashed any more brilliance than Mitch Trubisky or other QBs of their ilk. I have maintained for 3+ years that DJ, like virtually all NFL starters, will benefit from improved supporting talent. However, in 60 games, I have yet to witness any element of his game that gives me any confidence he's a championship-caliber QB. IMO, it's very obvious that he is what he is, and has always been.

Again, I really appreciate your post.  Just because we don't agree on this one subject, I look forward to engaging with you on areas we agree.

Quote from: 4 Aces on Today at 12:31:23 PMLike the offense as a whole, I'm willing to give him a mulligan for last year.

The entire year, from the start of camp, was a calamity.

Sometimes a team just has a "bad year". What can you say when, in less than 20 days, you lose Darren Waller, Andrew Thomas and Saquon Barkley? I realize there's not a lot of patiences for that given the larger picture/10+ years of futility.

As for Neal - he got a concussion that lasted a while (I was disappointed with missed practices vs. Hutchinson), then more injuries. If you watch some of the film breakdowns by knowledgable OL people (like Skinner on Talkin Giants) - it appears he started settling down and was showing improvement over year 1. (Trending in the right direction.)

I think there's reasons to be optimistic and pessimistic, and I agree with the above comment if he struggles early again, you've got to pull the plug. The goal isn't Evan Neal at RT, the goal is to win football games.

The other performance driver is Schmitz. Quite frankly, it's tough not to be underwhelmed by his play last year considering the hype. He does things well, but looked like a liability in other areas and his play declined as the year went. For me, it was shades of Weston Richburg just never quite making it. Big year for him, to prove he can get this thing turned around.

Not one young player developed under Booby.

I'm gonna wait to see what Brill-o- Pad does cleaning the techniques of this OL especially the young'ins'

I keep saying this but Brillo might have been the most important acquisition of the off-season. And I'm not a jokin' 

Giants success normally was a result of good 1st/2nd round picks and a few mid-rounders that became very good players.

Under Schoen/Dabs they've missed (at least early reviews) on some 1sts/2nds) and seem to have nothing to show for any of their mid-round picks.

When will this change?

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 11:31:08 AMUncle Mickey,
I absolutely love your posts and appreciate your perspective...you have added a lot of value to this board; however, in this situation, I fundamentally disagree with you.  We have discussed this premise ad nauseam over the last 2 years; when said subject arises, I ask posters to cite just three veteran QBs over the last 3 decades that significantly improved with an elite QB and/or OL.   For DJs situation, in the last 40 years, I cannot think of a single example of a player who played 60+ games that meets your description.  There are examples of very young QBs who benefited from elite WR/OL play, but we should avoid viewing those improvements in a vacuum. For example, on average, QBs make significant leaps between their 2d and 3d seasons; thus, how much of Josh Allen's improvement was due to Diggs vice the organic evolution of a young QB? I am not going to pretend Diggs did not help, but he was hardly the sole reason for Allen's improvement.  In addition, I bet Allen will continue to be good without Diggs, which reinforces the notion he had the goods to begin with, so to speak.   

The only viable examples cited over the last few years are Alex Smith and Geno Smith; however, the former was 'fired' twice after said 'improvement', which begs the question how much did he really improve? Plus, Smith emergence was more about finally staying healthy than being paired with an elite WR.  As @Jess highlighted in a different thread, his per game average was consistent after his second season.  Geno Smith enjoyed just 23 starts before being replaced; from his 25th start on, his per game averages were consistent, including his one start with our Giants.

Talking Heads yap about this premise all the time; however, the data simply doesn't support this notion for vetern QBs.  I'm not saying an Elite OL/WR won't help, but will it fundamentally alter the QBs trajectory (i.e. make them into a championship QB)?  Am I missing a veteran QB who evolved into the player you described? 

Thanks King! I appreciate all the varying opinions here on the matter. As long as folks make arguments that have some level of substantiation to it, I'm cool with it.


The way I see it is no two QB situations are exactly alike. And the level of ineptitude that DJ has had at OL coaching, OL talent and the WR talent is pretty much unprecedented in my 40 some odd years watching Giant football. With that said, I can draw at least a bit of correlation when I see a cat like Tua or Josh Allen or Geno or when you see a guy like Baker Mayfield get some OL protection and go from not really having a top WR1 to having one and all of a sudden they go from kinda mediocre to franchise looking QBs. Its not a perfect analogy mind you, but there is enough similarity (at least in my perspective) to where I have hope for DJ in a better situation. It's not like none of us have never seen flashes of brilliance from him. Everyone of us has. The kid has thrown some absolute laser throws that crossed the 'i's and that dotted the 't's!

 I just don't think that's an unfair assessment for some to have even though it's taken this 'abnormally' long time to improve the offense around him.

Lastly confidence is a very interesting thing when it comes to a QB. Let's see what a significantly better coached OL combined with a hopefully no doubter elite WR1 in Nabers , a 2nd year Hyatt, a 3rd year Wan'Dale do for DJ.

I think we all can at least agree the support system has a chance to be significantly better in numerous areas for DJ this year.