Big Blue Huddle

If we're looking at his numbers, I think the term "middling" is fair.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 19, 2022, 09:03:36 PMPer Big Blue View
"Daniel Jones had just 160 yards passing and averaged 5.0 yards per attempt. Per NFL NextGenStats, his average pass was 5.2 yards short of the first down marker and was intended to have 3.7 air yards. His average depth of target ranks in the 2nd percentile dating back to 2010 and his average completion traveled just 3.4 yards downfield in the air".

"Per NFL NextGenStats, just four of Jones' 32 pass attempts were thrown to receivers who were covered"

https://www.bigblueview.com/2022/12/19/23516303/2022-week-15-ny-giants-washington-commanders-offense-defense-stats-analytics-analysisYou cannot view this attachment.

Yet the strategy worked and the quick one read passing attack kept off the delayed blitzes, twists and stunts. There was only one play that I was able to see on replay where the Giant's Receiver was open on a go route where DJ had time after a roll out. May have been more.

With all these guys doing podcast analysis with the all 22, I haven't seen any of them looking at each game for other downfield options. The one exception was the Hodkins stop and go. So are we to assume they don't exist? I've seen several on the replay angle.

The game plan is always keep it close and let the other team make the mistakes.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 20, 2022, 08:33:47 AMYet the strategy worked and the quick one read passing attack kept off the delayed blitzes, twists and stunts. There was only one play that I was able to see on replay where the Giant's Receiver was open on a go route where DJ had time after a roll out. May have been more.

With all these guys doing podcast analysis with the all 22, I haven't seen any of them looking at each game for other downfield options. The one exception was the Hodkins stop and go. So are we to assume they don't exist? I've seen several on the replay angle.

The game plan is always keep it close and let the other team make the mistakes.

I agree the one read offense was a good idea as most teams had grasped their rpo/Playaction from previous games. It was definitely the right call, and would have probably been more effective if the run game had been better before that last drive.

There is the commentary here and then there is


https://twitter.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1605258140139884544

https://twitter.com/giantswfan/status/1605253131469815812

https://twitter.com/giantswfan/status/1605253450618572800

and there is

https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7/status/1605247353052532736

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 20, 2022, 02:01:10 PMIt could be, but then if one is going to promote that argument, that same person cannot then post a bunch of low PFF scores for receivers on a given team, then conclusively claim the QB has "no help" or "the worst receivers in the league", and expect to be taken seriously by any sound-minded reader. Those two arguments would be completely self-contradictory in nature.

"It could be"

Why is it so difficult to give Jones any credit?

https://twitter.com/giantswfan/status/1605276801474904064

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 20, 2022, 03:02:38 PM"It could be"

Why is it so difficult to give Jones any credit?

Credit for what exactly? Aren't you of the view that our receivers are literally the worst in the NFL? Now you're asking me to give Jones credit for them actually being pretty good?

I'm confused. Seems a bit all over the place.

Two questions:

1) What do you consider to be a reasonable offer for Jones?
2) Would you be upset if Schoen makes that offer to Jones but Jones goes to another team for more money?

For me, $20 million per year for 3 years is reasonable.
No, I would not be upset if he takes more money from another team.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 20, 2022, 03:21:46 PMCredit for what exactly? Aren't you of the view that our receivers are literally the worst in the NFL? Now you're asking me to give Jones credit for them actually being pretty good?

I'm confused. Seems a bit all over the place.

Well, we know the narrative Jones critics like yourself are pushing.  You claim that the criticism of the WR corps is unfair.   I assume that claim is motivated by the idea that if you convince people, the WRs are good, then you can blame Jones for the lack of offensive production.

Yet, you guys often also fault DJ for "not elevating the players around him."   When I suggest that perhaps the receiver production of the revolving motley cast of PS players, low-round draft picks, and street-free agents is proof of player elevation, all I get is a "could be" and a long lecture about how I am contradicting myself.

Quote from: T200 on December 20, 2022, 03:24:26 PMTwo questions:

1) What do you consider to be a reasonable offer for Jones?
2) Would you be upset if Schoen makes that offer to Jones but Jones goes to another team for more money?

For me, $20 million per year for 3 years is reasonable.
No, I would not be upset if he takes more money from another team.

I'd be more in the camp of two years for $30-$35mm (total). That would make him the 15th highest paid QB in 2022 in terms of AAV. That seems more than reasonable to me. What evidence is there that he is significantly better than average?

More than two years seems too long to me as I'm not convinced Jones is a guy you build around for the long haul. He is a capable game manager with plus athletic ability but not a franchise QB in my opinion. If the contract were more than two years I would want a clear out after the second year.

Here we go again. Another non-Jones thread derailed into another never ending Daniel Jones debate. Take it to the Jones thread that couldn't be any louder and brighter at the top of page 1. 

James 4 catches 42 yards
Hodgins 4 catches 37 yards
Barkley 5 catches 33 yards
Slayton 5 catches 23 yards

Jones average pass was 5 yards and his EPA or expected points added per pass on each throw was .04 as Jones averaged 5 yards a throw, his average Air Yards was like 3.4 and he on average threw in 5.2 yards short of the first down.

So Elevated. Outside the 91 yard drive our offense basically did absolutely nothing all game until the Barkley drive late in the game. This is not just on the QB but the offense as a whole. If anyone is content with a 160 yards passing every week then so be it but that's horrible. As it stands the defense will have to carry this team into the playoffs.

Quote from: TDToomer on December 20, 2022, 03:33:05 PMHere we go again. Another non-Jones thread derailed into another never ending Daniel Jones debate. Take it to the Jones thread that couldn't be any louder and brighter at the top of page 1. 

Comment wasn't even about Jones directly but more at the concept of football being a team game and how a QB's play could impact a WR's production and vice versa.

Quote from: T200 on December 20, 2022, 03:24:26 PMTwo questions:

1) What do you consider to be a reasonable offer for Jones?
2) Would you be upset if Schoen makes that offer to Jones but Jones goes to another team for more money?

For me, $20 million per year for 3 years is reasonable.
No, I would not be upset if he takes more money from another team.

If there is a QB the Front Office loves it's not even a question that I'd just let him walk.

If they don't and just need someone to start next season I offer Jones a similar deal to what Jamie's Winston got in New Orleans which is 2 years $28 million.  Anything over $20 million AAV is a massive overpay based upon what he's done in his 4 seasons as QB.