UK Giant's write up
Prince Amukamara (Nebraska) is 6', 206lb
love it. How can you not? We get a top 10 player.
This is also good news for Aaron Ross who will be freed up to train with his girlfriend.
Russ Lande's summary:
Prince is a very good athlete. He has good size, strength and a musulcar build which allows him to match up against any receiver in the country. He shows great toughness to jam receivers off the line and redirect there route pattern with ease. He also uses his toughness and size to attack downhill against the run and force the ball back inside to other defenders. When tackling ball carriers he shows a physicality that most corners lack and wraps up well to be a sure tackler. He will need to fine tune some technique issues with his backpedal, which should help him to turn and run better with receiver and to transition and close quicker out of his pedal - He has the hips, foot quicks and athleticism to be very good in these areas if he improves his technique. Overall, Prince Amukamara is a sure fire late 1st / high 2nd round selection and if he can become more consistent with his backpedal and improve vs double moves he could become a very good starting CB in the NFL. In the end, I think he will turn out to be a good, solid CB, but will never become an elite, all pro.
Nolan from PFW:
Sculpted, Instinctive, well-coached cover man with the speed, twitch, instincts and takling ability desired in a number 1 cornerback at the next level. Lacks elite defensive play making skills but should be good for a long time. TOP 15
NFL write up:
OVERVIEW
Amukamara has the size, speed and awareness to start from day one and turn into one of the league's finer players at the cornerback position. Takes advantage of his instincts and smarts in zone coverage but also has the ability to hold up when asked to cover on an island. Possesses good overall ball skills and hands. Will help out and support the run. Durable, aggressive, competitive and hard-working. No major weaknesses in his game, but isn't a true burner in terms of straight-line speed. Amukamara will likely be selected early in the first round, possibly in the top 10.
Quote from: jimmyz on April 28, 2011, 10:16:10 PM
love it. How can you not? We get a top 10 player.
This is also good news for Aaron Ross who will be freed up to train with his girlfriend.
Totally agree, this kid didn't drop because of concerns or issues but rather because so many teams were desperate for QB's and pass rushers. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Everyone him going in the top 10. This is a great pick.
TheBlueScreen Ralph Vacchiano
Jerry Reese: "Really surprised that he was there when we picked. We thought he
I hope you guys are right. I think CB was not a day 1-2 need position and that we should have taken Ingrim or an OL. It seems like Reese loads up at some positions (DE, DB, WR) but lets others go thin (LB, RB). Maybe I have more faith in TT than others. We needed to address our aging OL, not a position that is relatively young by NFL standards.
Quote from: TDToomer on April 28, 2011, 10:23:57 PM
I hope you guys are right. I think CB was not a day 1-2 need position and that we should have taken Ingrim or an OL. It seems like Reese loads up at some positions (DE, DB, WR) but lets others go thin (LB, RB). Maybe I have more faith in TT than others. We needed to address our aging OL, not a position that is relatively young by NFL standards.
The Giants have to face the Eagles WRs and Dez Bryant twice a year. That alone is a good excuse to have top notch corner. Hopefully the Giants will be able to pick up O-line tomorrow night.
TheBlueScreen Ralph Vacchiano
Ross: "We never thought this kid would still be on the board at 19. ... I just assumed somebody would have taken him." #NYG
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply
TheBlueScreen Ralph Vacchiano
Marc Ross, #NYG scouting director: "Shock. It was a shock. This one was just completely out of left field. ..."
I love the fact that he has physicality in his game to go along with 4.4 speed.
I think sometime very soon we will be very happy we got this guy.
Also, we can address OL in later rounds and Free Agency. As much as some are exceedingly concerned about OL Will Beatty the games he played before we started O'Hara after being out all season, did a very decent Job. Yes, he had some penalties but as he settles into the position I believe he will be fine.
I am hoping we can land Bruce Carter. GO BIG BLUE!
With all the speed in Philly, this pick is amazing.
This is one stout looking corner
(http://www.vikingsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Prince-Amukamara.jpg)
He can also return kicks and punts. Great value pick.
Nfl network gave us the best value pick. It wasn't a high priority in my view, I like our starting duo and Ross as a corner. Still, we.weve had some defensive collapses and will welcome a solid corner. Id love to see Ross go to safety to round out our defensive backfield. Prince needs to see the field to get a return on him. To go with our stacked dline, we can be looking real good on D.
Quote from: TDToomer on April 28, 2011, 10:23:57 PM
I hope you guys are right. I think CB was not a day 1-2 need position and that we should have taken Ingrim or an OL. It seems like Reese loads up at some positions (DE, DB, WR) but lets others go thin (LB, RB). Maybe I have more faith in TT than others. We needed to address our aging OL, not a position that is relatively young by NFL standards.
The Giants don't pick positions - they pick the highest rated player on their Board at a position of need. There are plenty of other picks to address the OL.
Still no LBs though. I get the pick, he was way too much value to pass up at that spot, but at the same time they still have pretty big holes at OL and LB and there were plenty of OLs at that spot that were more than worthy of the pick. Castonzo in particular seemed like a steal at 19. Maybe not as big of a steal as Prince, but also at a position of much more need than CB. Prince seems like a good player so we'll see, but I'd have gone with an OL there.
Several profiles of Castonzo states that he can start immediately and play for 10 years. I don't see how Prince can be determined to be higher value than that. The value to the team should take precedent over the value on the board.
I'm sure he'll be useful and that he's a quality player, but the big LT was tough to pass on.
Welcome to our new Giant. Prince "Albert In A Can" Amukamara.
Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki: Amukamara slid in large part because of concerns teams had about his perceived quirky personality and questions about how well he would fit into an NFL locker room. Many teams shy away from cornerbacks without interceptions, but the Giants, a value-driven team, recognized his worth and added depth to a battered secondary. He lacks ideal downfield ball skills, but he excels in short areas and could be a solid press corner for the Giants' aggressive defense.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=AmP1BxPKRRuEgAx0nCvaGbVDubYF (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=AmP1BxPKRRuEgAx0nCvaGbVDubYF)
Wes Bunting on Prince:
Impression: A fluid, balanced corner who possesses only average deep speed, but looks like a guy capable of starting at a number of spots in an NFL secondary. However, I don't think he will ever be a real blue-chip corner.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=66949 (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=66949)
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 29, 2011, 07:42:33 AM
Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki: Amukamara slid in large part because of concerns teams had about his perceived quirky personality and questions about how well he would fit into an NFL locker room. Many teams shy away from cornerbacks without interceptions, but the Giants, a value-driven team, recognized his worth and added depth to a battered secondary. He lacks ideal downfield ball skills, but he excels in short areas and could be a solid press corner for the Giants' aggressive defense.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=AmP1BxPKRRuEgAx0nCvaGbVDubYF (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=AmP1BxPKRRuEgAx0nCvaGbVDubYF)
This is utter nonsense, he slipped because so many teams need a QB or a DE to get to the QB. This is simply one of those drafts that broke right for the Giants, period.
Quote from: todge on April 28, 2011, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: TDToomer on April 28, 2011, 10:23:57 PM
I hope you guys are right. I think CB was not a day 1-2 need position and that we should have taken Ingrim or an OL. It seems like Reese loads up at some positions (DE, DB, WR) but lets others go thin (LB, RB). Maybe I have more faith in TT than others. We needed to address our aging OL, not a position that is relatively young by NFL standards.
The Giants don't pick positions - they pick the highest rated player on their Board at a position of need. There are plenty of other picks to address the OL.
They should have picked a postion. Unless they let our D play with 12 - 13 guys, I don't see how he improves us much. The run on OTs leaves only leavings for us. I hope Ingram at 28 doesn't start a run on RBs or the O might find itself exactly where it was last year, except one year older.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 29, 2011, 07:42:33 AM
Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki: Amukamara slid in large part because of concerns teams had about his perceived quirky personality and questions about how well he would fit into an NFL locker room. Many teams shy away from cornerbacks without interceptions, but the Giants, a value-driven team, recognized his worth and added depth to a battered secondary. He lacks ideal downfield ball skills, but he excels in short areas and could be a solid press corner for the Giants' aggressive defense.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=AmP1BxPKRRuEgAx0nCvaGbVDubYF (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=AmP1BxPKRRuEgAx0nCvaGbVDubYF)
Not the Giants. We love stone hands DB's who can't catch.
The Giant's value board and we play D Jackson, J Macklin, and D Bryant, M Austin twice a year. He has been widely rated as the second best corner in this draft. I read where BP thought he would turn into a better pro than Peterson taken at #5. The GMEN need speed and athleticism on defense. You can't fill all your needs with one pick.
True to form. No trade up or trade down and the best available player regardless of position. I understand the philosophy and agree with it for the most part. FA and injuries have a way of way of changing perspectives quickly and grabbing the best value at the time usually makes you stronger when those things bite you in the ass.
Quote from: quacker on April 29, 2011, 10:31:44 AM
True to form. No trade up or trade down and the best available player regardless of position. I understand the philosophy and agree with it for the most part. FA and injuries have a way of way of changing perspectives quickly and grabbing the best value at the time usually makes you stronger when those things bite you in the ass.
JPP didn't look like a need until Kiwi was lost for the season
Not a college football follower, so I really can't comment on the quality of this (or any) pick. That being said I wonder if this talk of him not getting many interceptions is a bit overblown. If he's that good a corner maybe he wasn't thrown at that often. What do you folks who know about this stuff have to say?
Quote from: goNets on April 29, 2011, 10:40:50 AM
Not a college football follower, so I really can't comment on the quality of this (or any) pick. That being said I wonder if this talk of him not getting many interceptions is a bit overblown. If he's that good a corner maybe he wasn't thrown at that often. What do you folks who know about this stuff have to say?
That's true but they are also saying that he didn't play the ball well on the few chances he had for an INT.
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 28, 2011, 10:12:17 PM
UK Giant's write up
Prince Amukamara (Nebraska) is 6', 206lb
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 29, 2011, 11:00:15 AM
Sounds like Will Allen part 2.
I'm hoping he's more like that other allpro CB with a name that no one can pronounce. :D
It is all about fit with a scheme and coachability. If I precis all the stuff said and written by the 'analysts' his biggest flaws seem to be:
1. too aggressive (bites on double pumps etc.)
2. not a ball hawk
His biggest strengths are:
1. likes contact
2. fast to close
If I'm interpreting the various talking heads correctly it seems if we ask him to play press, cover man and provide run support in short zones he'll look good. If we make him play off the man and read in deep zones h'll look lost unless our coaches can improve his weaknesses.
The concern is we seem to be back in off/deep zone mode under Fewell rather than press (Spags). Both Webster and Prince (and Rolle at safety) are generally considered to be better in press/cover. Do we need to revisit our style a little to get the most from the considerable talent we now have back there?
IMO, considering where we picked, I believe we just continued to strengthen our "D".
I believe over the seasons, we will be very happy we picked up the Prince.
:ok:
I find it hard to believe anyone could have such poor ball skills as Will (Hands of Stone) Allen did. He (Prince) has to adjust to the 5-yard rule as his film room tapes show, but no biggie with his skill set; an excellent athlete to help combat the realities of the air-it-out offenses that is NFL football. You can't have enough guys that can play in the secondary, of course. KP (although a safety) also got dinged for his "lack" of interceptions in his senior year, but we all know how special he was before his injury. I like the pick considering the nature of the league. Very good to excellent value there at #19. Overall, I'd give it B+ for our heroes.
UK Giants Take:
Marvin Austin (North Carolina ) is 6'1 5/8
Excellent.
Not sure I like this pick. I've followed this guy since he was one of the biggest high school football recruits. His attitude has never been impressive and I don't like how he handled questions about his off-field issues last year, basically saying everyone does it and we just got caught... And do we need another DL? I would have rather seen an interior OL, a RT, a LB, or even Leshoure...
Anyway, I guess this means we have some interior offensive linemen targeted for free agency.
Russ Lande's take:
Austin is a very talented DT who is being talked about as an elite DT prospect, but he needs to play with better technique and aggressiveness on every snap to be as productive as he is physically capable. He has the combination of size, natural strength, foot quicks, athleticism and explosiveness to be productive playing in any defensive scheme, but I believe he fits best at a 3-Technique DT in a 43 scheme where he can use his athleticism to get into gaps to disrupt plays and can use his speed to chase down plays from sideline to sideline. If he can play with leverage and aggressiveness more consistently he could go from being a good starting DT to an elite one who changes games and makes impact plays consistently. Overall, Austin is likely to be drafted higher than I have him rated because of his natural talent and flashes of dominance. If he shines in the spring leading up to the draft he could really move way up draft boards, because strong, athletic and very athletic DT
I hate to be a downer, but 2 picks at low priority spots? Even if Barry wals, we still had 2 solid tackles. How long are we going to ignore the offensive line and linebacker?! Even a running back would have made me happy.
Almost certainly means we're losing one of my Favorite players. See ya Barry....
NFL Network's take:
OVERVIEW
Austin has first round talent, but he did not play football last season and there are concerns about his character and work ethic. He appears to be a prototypical 3-technique defensive tackle, as he is a big boy with outstanding athleticism. He has great feet and the lateral agility to move quickly down the line and make tackles on the edge. He uses his quick heavy hands to shed blocks and has the closing burst to make plays in the backfield. Austin's off the field issues may prevent him from being a first round pick, but he could be a major steal in round two.
Great, our offensive line is old, thin and injury prone and we blow our first two picks on another corner and a DT. Maybe the offensive line ferries will visit us at some damn point. I wouldn't be surprised if we use our third round pick on a rush end as you can never have enough of those guys. :surrender:
May be another BPA strategy. For what it's worth, Gosselin had him ranked 26 on his board. I know there are character issues, but if that's the case it could be another steal.
NICE
Quote from: TXGiant on April 29, 2011, 07:59:06 PM
May be another BPA strategy. For what it's worth, Gosselin had him ranked 26 on his board. I know there are character issues, but if that's the case it could be another steal.
At some point you actually have to address your weaknesses otherwise your doomed to suffer from the same failures. I understand liking value but having a well rounded team is more valuable in my opinion than just collecting talent. I am so pissed I want to scream.
problem is the fact the giants like the bucs are gloing back to defense, defense, defense.
the giants have to beat both the eagles and dallas to regain the division, so this is why they went defense again, earlky.
the ol will be addressed, as will rb.
rb is a position that you can get someone in late rounds.
ol, depends on beaty and koets, maybe the giants feel they can get the job done.
Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki: With Barry Cofield likely to command too much interest on the free-agent market, the Giants found an explosive penetrator who could replace him. Austin possesses first-round athletic traits and explosive inside-rush ability. He didn't play as a senior for violating NCAA regulations and has marginal football character. However, Tom Coughlin does an excellent job getting the most out of his players, and if he can keep Austin in line the Giants could come away with a very disruptive interior force well-suited for Perry Fewell's defense.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=Ao_Hq3kgmOZa3q_89ftMkaLXb6x_?round=2 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/draft;_ylt=Ao_Hq3kgmOZa3q_89ftMkaLXb6x_?round=2)
Maybe if we were allowed to put 10 D Linemen on the field at once I would be more satisfied with these last couple of drafts.
Giants will be running a 5-2-4 defense (with two hybrid DE at linebacker)
Tuck-Austin-Canty-JPP-Osi
Kiwi (lb) Sintim (lb)
Prince, Webster, Thomas, Rolle
I'm mystified. I guess our OL and linebacker situation is not a problem. /??? /??? /???
Quote from: GiantFan67 on April 29, 2011, 08:31:20 PM
I'm mystified. I guess our OL and linebacker situation is not a problem. /??? /??? /???
No. It is not.
Not that anyone is listening.
DT was the biggest need going into the draft. I LOVE today's first pick.
We missed the playoffs because of bad losses due to defensive collapses.
Quote from: NYSPORTS on April 29, 2011, 08:23:45 PM
Giants will be running a 5-2-4 defense (with two hybrid DE at linebacker)
Tuck-Austin-Canty-JPP-Osi
Kiwi (lb) Sintim (lb)
Prince, Webster, Thomas, Rolle
That's a joke, right PSU? If not, it's going to take more than 9 guys to hide those two LBs.
Quote from: NYSPORTS on April 29, 2011, 08:23:45 PM
Giants will be running a 5-2-4 defense (with two hybrid DE at linebacker)
Tuck-Austin-Canty-JPP-Osi
Kiwi (lb) Sintim (lb)
Prince, Webster, Thomas, Rolle
How many teams have you ever seen run a five man line? Why do people continue to think the Giants are going to reinvent the wheel defensively every year?
Times sure have changed. When Wellington was here, we never would have even had a guy like this on our draft board. We always took pride in the Giants steering away from problem like this BEFORE they even suit up.
Talent aside, is this where we now are?????????????/
Quote from: LennG on April 29, 2011, 09:32:54 PM
Times sure have changed. When Wellington was here, we never would have even had a guy like this on our draft board. We always took pride in the Giants steering away from problem like this BEFORE they even suit up.
Talent aside, is this where we now are?????????????/
He signed Collins who was nothing short of a head case.
They researched it and w
Felt it safe.
I assume they did the same here.
Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki: The Giants face a loss of Steve Smith and Derek Hagan, both of whom could depart in free agency. Jernigan could fill the slot role where Smith has been so effective while also bringing a spark to the return game.
Russ Lande:
I first noticed Jernigan when I was evaluating Troy
God bless you, MG!
4.3 speed
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14772009/notebook-troy-wr-jernigan-blazes-43-in-pro-day-workout (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14772009/notebook-troy-wr-jernigan-blazes-43-in-pro-day-workout)
Quote from: LennG on April 29, 2011, 09:32:54 PM
Times sure have changed. When Wellington was here, we never would have even had a guy like this on our draft board. We always took pride in the Giants steering away from problem like this BEFORE they even suit up.
Talent aside, is this where we now are?????????????/
LT (drug abuse), Dave Meggitt (rape), Jerimiah Parker (murdering a child), Christian Peter (rape), Keith Hamilton (drug abuse), David Tyree (drug dealing), Tito Wooten (choking and beating his then girlfriend), et alia. We drafted/signed guys during Wellington's era that make Marvin Austin look like a choir boy.
Sounds like Eric Metcalf
Quote from: babywhales on April 29, 2011, 09:36:00 PM
Quote from: LennG on April 29, 2011, 09:32:54 PM
Times sure have changed. When Wellington was here, we never would have even had a guy like this on our draft board. We always took pride in the Giants steering away from problem like this BEFORE they even suit up.
Talent aside, is this where we now are?????????????/
He signed Collins who was nothing short of a head case.
They researched it and w
Felt it safe.
I assume they did the same here.
True. The ESPN Hassleback or Dilfer was saying the character bs is over-rated anyway. None of them are saints and if anything they were worse in the old days. If we had more than a need for a DT, I wouldn't mind this pick at all.
NYPost_Schwartz Paul Schwartz
Director of college scouting Marc Ross says Marvin Austin is one of the top 15 players in the draft. #NYG
He's the fastest player on the team now. And, Prince is the second fastest. Speed kills. The Giants just got a lot faster. Must be part of some kind of plan. :what:
I guess I'm one of those guys that let the professionals do their job, especially when I know I can't do any better. Reese was brought on by EA because he (Reese) is a very good scout. Giants management saw fit to make Reese the GM. I'm not here to second guess anyone. But Reese is the GM and until he royally screws up a draft (which he hasn't to this point) then I'm still in his corner.
Jernigan could bring Wildcat to Giants
BY HANK GOLA
At 5-8, 181, third round pick Jerrel Jernigan is going to have to make it on speed and quickness, which he has in abundance. A high school quarterback, Jernigancan thrown the option pass, run it and catch it. He'll also be tried as a return man.
If he works out, you could see the Wildcat in the game plan.
Quote from: vette on April 29, 2011, 10:29:52 PM
He's the fastest player on the team now. And, Prince is the second fastest. Speed kills. The Giants just got a lot faster. Must be part of some kind of plan. :what:
Once some see him they will change their minds. What you want to watch is the broken tackles in this video. He is very tough to bring down for his size.
Jerrel Jernigan Highlight Reel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63lbmKiBWl0&feature=player_embedded#)
and that doesn't include this year's highlights.
Quote from: vette on April 29, 2011, 10:36:16 PM
Jernigan could bring Wildcat to Giants
BY HANK GOLA
At 5-8, 181, third round pick Jerrel Jernigan is going to have to make it on speed and quickness, which he has in abundance. A high school quarterback, Jernigancan thrown the option pass, run it and catch it. He'll also be tried as a return man.
If he works out, you could see the Wildcat in the game plan.
That was great Mitch. How can anyone not get excited about this kid?
Kiper agrees - he stated that if Marvin played this season that he would have been a top 15-20 pick. Once again, the Giants stick to their value Board.
He didn't play last year because he decided that the rules didn't apply to him. I don't care how talented a player is if that is his approach to life. How may talented headaches do we have to suffer through before people realize that self centered guys aren't worth the heart ache. The fact that he lasted as long as he did is because most teams understand that.
"Boy, I wish we had a game changer in the return game, instead of some fair-catch specialist... don't JR and TC realize this is an important facet to the game?!?!?"
Cofield has already gone on record saying he will not sign another tender and wants to be traded if we don't sign him to a long term deal. He'll get his money - and a lot of it - elsewhere. And deservedly so. He won't get it from us, it would seem.
I like this pick as well. We have two potential game changers on the side of the ball that truly need them.
I'm not excited. I'm not sure he can make the final roster. The Giants should and will bring Steve Smith back, and unless they are willing to write off Ramses BArden completely that makes this kid the 5th WR. He's so tiny he's not likely to impact the coverages teams so unless he's a dynamic return man...how does he make this team?
Gmo, what makes you so sure Smith makes the roster? He's having microfracture surgery. You may recall Phillips missed most of 2009 and was a shell of himself in 2010 - so much so that some here want to replace him?
Remember when we had the "deepest WR corps in the league," then we were starting Hagan and Clayton, two dudes we signed off the street?
Take a look at the bottom half of the current WR roster from last season. That's who Jernigan replaces.
With the injuries the Giants seem to accumulate at WR this seems like a smart pick. If he has decent hands and has run-after-catch ability (which he's supposed to have both of) I can't believe they think he couldn't be a punt returner. His stats make him look like at least a good third-and-long addition to the offense.
The Giants take Jerrel Jernigan, the Eagles take Jaiquawn Jarrett, and the Redkins take Jarvis Jenkins. Weird, huh?
madbadger when, where and what David Tyree (drug dealing), I was not aware!
vette JR and the rest of The Giant brain trust have been incessant about the need to get faster. I have a feeling they know exactly what they are doing and so far all indications are we have very good potential with our first 3 picks.
As of 1979 and until he died, Welly Mara had nothing to do with who the Giants drafted.
Quote from: T200 on April 29, 2011, 10:44:38 PM
Quote from: vette on April 29, 2011, 10:36:16 PM
Jernigan could bring Wildcat to Giants
BY HANK GOLA
At 5-8, 181, third round pick Jerrel Jernigan is going to have to make it on speed and quickness, which he has in abundance. A high school quarterback, Jernigancan thrown the option pass, run it and catch it. He'll also be tried as a return man.
If he works out, you could see the Wildcat in the game plan.
Madbager - Are you going to tell me that you made no mistakes or made any poor decisions when you were in your early 20's?? He got involved with an agent and paid for it by missing a year of college football. Thus, according to you he has character issues. /???
worf....he was caught with marijuana after his rookie season....go Giants!!!!!
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2008/02/ny_giants_david_tyree_made_a_g.html (http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2008/02/ny_giants_david_tyree_made_a_g.html)
And the Cowboys take Jerry Jones.
Does this pick alleviate the need to draft a 3rd down scat back? Perhaps this type of player can loosen the box on 3rd and short with the threat of his speed and shiftiness.
Personally I prefer my 3-technique tackles to be pot smokers. worked out well for Warren Sapp.
greg, the videos I've seen of him show him lined up in the backfield often.
Just resign Cofield. This kid is a rookie and hasn't played in over a year.
Can't understand why you all are so down on Will Allen. Did you forget the time we were playing Minnesota And Culpepper threw a pass at Will's man. Will turned around and saw a hard thrown football headed right for his chest. He put his hands up to protect himself from the ball, but the ball hit him in the chest. Trying to fight the ball off, it got stuck in his hands. His only pick, as I remember.
Quote from: jimmyz on April 30, 2011, 11:06:59 AM
greg, the videos I've seen of him show him lined up in the backfield often.
He's Cam Newton's mini-me.
Coaches are just trying to get the ball in his hands, that's all.
Thanks Bama! Its great to get feedback from those of you who follow college. Hopefully when can see him in mini camps soon if the lockout ends.
My brother actually called the pick. He lives in Pennsylvania and has been talking to me about this guy for months now. He said they would take him in the 3rd Round. I told him he was nuts.
He called this moring to remind me I owe him a beer. :cheers:
At the risk of intruding on MG's territory, here is some stuff from CBS sports on Mr. Brewer.
The link:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243647 (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243647)
And some of their information:
04/04/2011 - Top offensive linemen: 9. James Brewer, Indiana, 6-6, 323, 3, Hoosiers are just born with hoops in their blood. Basketball was Brewer's first love, and he didn't give up the round ball for shoulder pads and a helmet until his senior season at Arlington High School in Indianapolis. Brewer went two years at IU before he got on the field -- he redshirted in 2006 and missed the '07 season with a foot injury -- and his sophomore season in '08 ended in anguish when he went down with an ankle injury at midseason. Brewer didn't completely escape injuries the rest of his career, missing three games in 2010 with an ankle injury, and enters the NFL with just 21 career starts. His size and potential pique the interest of scouts who might be inclined to gamble on his upside in the middle rounds if they're convinced he won't spend more time in the trainer's room than film room and practice field. - Jeff Reynolds, The Sports Xchange
"Overview
James Brewer is an intriguing prospect who settled in as Indiana's best pass protector after a well-traveled high school career, but struggled with injuries at IU. Prior to matriculating to Indiana, he bounced around three different high schools -- he primarily played basketball -- before finally settling in at Arlington High School in Indianapolis and focusing on football as a high school senior.
After redshirting in 2006, Brewer missed the entire season with a foot injury. In 2008, he was a reserve in the first eight games before suffering a season-ending ankle injury. After a strong showing in spring practice as a junior, Brewer realized his potential as the anchor on the right side of an offensive line that gave up just 16 sacks - the second-lowest total among Big 10 teams that season. The 2010 honorable-mention All-Big Ten pick started his senior year playing very well against non-conference opponents but again missed three games -- this time with an ankle injury -- before returning at less than full strength for Indiana's final four games.
Despite Brewer's large frame, he is more of a finesse blocker than a mauler and never really took the leadership reins in 2010 from Rodger Saffold, whom the St. Louis Rams selected with the first pick of the second round of the '10 draft. But despite injury issues, scouts were impressed with his season-ending performance against Purdue's defensive cornerstone Ryan Kerrigan. Brewer may be a relatively high draft pick because of his vast potential but he's not without question marks.
Analysis
Strengths: Has great athleticism for his size and a quick first step off the snap. Has a strong upper body, uses his arms well to knock rushers off their path. Good agility and can move with ease laterally. Has a very quick kick-slide to mirror speed rushers to the outside. Has good awareness and adjusts well to blitzes. Keeps his pad level low and is able to get good leverage for a player of his size. Good quickness and is effective when pulling. Adjusts to spin moves and attacks cut blocks. Gets to the second level quickly. Has quick feet and can lock onto linebackers in the open field. Does not drive defenders out of the play but does a good job occupying them and sustaining his blocks.
Weaknesses: Does not display much aggression. Regularly grabs the outside of the defenders' shoulder pads instead of attacking his chest to drive and steer him out of the play. Does not make the first contact and tends to wait and catch the defender. Lacks a nasty demeanor when run blocking. Doesn't take good pursuit angles and often fails to keep his body square. Fails to explode off the ball in the run game and also struggles to hold his ground against bull rushers. Can open his hips and get beat to the inside. Ineffective when cut blocking and struggles to take down athletic defensive ends. Could do a better job keeping his feet moving once engaged. Missed time in 2007, '08 and 2010 with foot and ankle injuries. Not a vocal leader on the field or in the locker room and his competitiveness has been questioned.
2010 Season
Received honorable mention All-Big Ten from the league's coaches and media
He was more highly touted earlier in the year. I think some of the reports are a bit hard on him. At the least, he's a guy for the goalline and short yardage or could develop into the next starting RT.
I don't believe Diehl, O'Hara or Seubert had very flattering scouting reports either.
Injury prone, inexperienced, non nasty, non aggressive, questionable competitiveness and sounds like he's going to get flagged for holding on a regular basis and he's not a drive blocker. Score. I give everyone a shot, but, this reads like they drafted a career backup no better.
Another project? Strikes me as a reach.
He was in Ceri's Top 100 and a projected 3rd rounder by some. Are we seeing a pattern here?
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 29, 2011, 08:57:28 PM
Quote from: GiantFan67 on April 29, 2011, 08:31:20 PM
I'm mystified. I guess our OL and linebacker situation is not a problem. /??? /??? /???
No. It is not.
Not that anyone is listening.
DT was the biggest need going into the draft. I LOVE today's first pick.
Special teams and pass coverage was the real biggest problem and even though you don't just draft for special teams we have gotten 2 guys who could be difference makers on special teams while also playing active roles from scrimmage.
Guys I am taking classes this weekend for my emergency medical tech cert
Cannon just went to New England. Ugh, ya know, this one really hits me. 2012 this kid will likely be a wrecking ball.
Not happy about this one, at all. :boooo:
If you think anyone knows anything for sure at this point, just read the scouting reports on this guy. Absolutly all over the place. Everything from good work ethic and athletic to underperforming and unable to reach the second level.
:surrender:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81f25e7c/2011-Draft-Profile-LB-Greg-Jones-Michigan-State (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81f25e7c/2011-Draft-Profile-LB-Greg-Jones-Michigan-State)
As near as I can tell, we just drafted a tackling machine. =D>
Hopefully this will end all of the "Plaxico Back to Giants" talk. ~X(
Percy Snow II?
Let's hope not.
Where we landed this player is beyond a steal.
Here's Russ Lande's take:
Brewer is a two-year starter at RT for the Hoosiers in 2010. He has outstanding overall size with very good arm length for the position at the NFL level. He is an outstanding overall athlete with just above average lateral range in his play. He has excellent initial quickness, lower body flexibility, body control, balance, lateral quickness, recovery ability, & agility for the position. He is a strong run blocker at the POA. He has the lower body strength & finish ability to
gain movement off the LOS. He is inconsistent to strike & stick to the defender with his hands inside the frame. However, he does an excellent job of controlling his man. He moves easily with proper angles to his 2nd level blocks. He can search, fit, & sustain blocks on the move. He showed excellent power as a run blocker on the GL & in SY situations in my views. He flashes a quick, strong punch with the ability to anchor down against bull rushers in pass protection. He has very quick feet to slide & mirror with speed rushers off the edge. He has the lateral agility & recovery ability to sustain his block against stunts, but is late to react at times in his play. He does an excellent job of dropping his hips when pulled by the DL. His lack of durability & starting experience is a concern. Overall, he is a mid-to-late 2nd round draft consideration in 2011. He has the ability to start at RT in his first season at the NFL level and could eventually become a good LT. He is a bigger, stronger version of former Irish Ryan Harris, who was a 3rd round pick by Denver back in 2007.
Pro Football Weekly draft analyst Nolan Nawrocki: With Kareem McKenzie and David Diehl both on the wrong side of 30, the Giants needed to add some depth to the position. Brewer lined up at right tackle in college but could offer swing backup versatility at either OT since he has good length, mass and agility. He will be best sitting and learning for a year and could benefit highly from the tutelage of OL coach Pat Flaherty.
Russ Lande's take:
Jones is a three-year starter at MLB for the Spartans in 2010, after serving as their starting SLB back in 2007. He also competes on special teams as the LG on punt & as the L5 on kickoff coverage. He has an undersized frame with good arm length & limited growth potential to develop for the position at the next level. He is an outstanding overall athlete with just good play speed & lateral range in his play. He shows outstanding lateral quickness, lower body flexbility, & cod ability on the move. He is a very instinctive & a highly productive player within his college scheme. He is most effective as an inside run defender & as a pass rusher. He plays with excellent leverage, body control, & balance as a run defender. He is more of a lateral, flow player, than a nasty, violent, downhill thumper in his play. He has quick hands & feet to slip & avoid larger blockers within the box. However, when he does square-up on a blocker, he has trouble getting free due to his lack of size & bulk. He will back-door a run play, but lacks the speed & acceleration to chase plays down from behind. He makes a lot of his plays as a run blitzer, showing excellent timing & awareness. He has a definite short burst to close, but is not an explosive athlete. He is a build-up speed athlete in his lateral pursuit. He shows some anticipation & closing quickness as an underneath zone defender, but lacks the speed, range, & recovery to drop in the deep middle in TB cover 2. He is quick to pick-up a RB in the flat & does a good job with his jam on crossers. He has very little career production on the ball in the
air. He shows natural interior pass rush ability to win vs. OC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6u01i9OwUU&feature=player_embedded#at=42 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6u01i9OwUU&feature=player_embedded#at=42)
From NFL.com
OVERVIEW
Sash brings impressive football intelligence and excellent effort in run support to the table but probably lacks the range and athleticism in coverage to become a full-time starter. However, he'll likely provide excellent depth and contribute on special teams coverage units. Can play the deep half but is a liability in centerfield or when asked to matchup with tight ends or slots in man coverage. Does possess hands when he limits separation and is around the football. Flies to the ball in run support and is a sound tackler. Coachable player who will learn your system quickly. Sash carries a mid-round grade.
From Russ Lande:
Sash is a junior who came out early for the 2011 NFL Draft who definitely could have helped himself and his draft stock by staying another season in college. He is a well built kid who can be a very hard hitter and good form tackler when he stays over feet and under control, but too often he gets upright running to the ball and ends up missing tackles he should make. He definitely has the foot quicks, acceleration, playing speed and closing burst that NFL teams look for in a safety as it gives him the sideline range to make plays all the way outside, but the issue is that he does not make as many plays as he is capable of because he does not consistently read the play as quickly or accurately as he needs to. He has experience lining up deep in coverage within 5 to 7 yards of the LOS, so I do not believe smarts or ability to learn assignments are an issue. Overall, I am always concerned by safeties who are inconsistent in both coverage and tackling because if you are not at least very good in one of those areas you often struggle to become a consistently productive starter in the NFL. I am sure that Sash will be drafted significantly higher than I have him rated, but I doubt he will become a good, all around starting safety. I think in time he will be an excellent backup safety who makes big plays and hits on special teams.
Quote from: NYSPORTS on April 29, 2011, 08:23:45 PM
Giants will be running a 5-2-4 defense (with two hybrid DE at linebacker)
Tuck-Austin-Canty-JPP-Osi
Kiwi (lb) Sintim (lb)
Prince, Webster, Thomas, Rolle
So Austin leapfrogs Joseph?
Here:
QuoteRecently, when I was at EFT Performance in Highland Park, a player I didn't recognized jumped out at me.
He was a smooth athlete, and I even thought he might have been a big receiver. But the player was Jacquian Williams, an outside linebacker from South Florida. You could tell he was explosive, which was confirmed at the South Florida Pro Day, when he ran a 4.53 and 4.72 in the 40-yard dash. But he also had a 36 1/2 inch vertical leap.
SNIP
QuoteHe came to South Florida as a junior college transfer, and he was named a team captain for his final season. Former USF head coach Jim Leavitt called him the "fastest linebacker" to ever play at the school.
He finished second-team All-BIG EAST, and he led the team with 71 tackles, including 11 for loss, 2 1/2 sacks and one interception.
USF coach Skip Holtz called him "his hero," according to the St. Petersburg Times.
"He's an incredibly unselfish young man. I don't know that I've ever been around anybody as committed as he is, with the heart he has," Holtz told the paper. "I hope my son grows up to be like Jacquian Williams. I feel that strongly about him as a young man."
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/04/south_florida_lb_jacquian_will.html (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/04/south_florida_lb_jacquian_will.html)
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2011, 02:07:56 PM
Guys I am taking classes this weekend for my emergency medical tech cert
Rich, best of luck. Try not to kill the practice dummy. <:-P
I hope Clint reads that.
RB Da'Rel Scott. Maryland. had the fasted RB time in the 40...4.35 or so.
we'll keep BJ, AB, ware and Scott at RB.
Yes, I'm a Maryland grad [Ph.d., 1988]. Go Terps. GO GIANTS.
It's just me, but of all the picks, this is the one I think may help the least or possibly last the shortest time. From what's been written, is he really worth a 4th round pick?? /???
In that case Rick, I hope he sticks.
For what it's worth- CBS Sports had him rated the number uno strong safety and a third round projection ( number 77).
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243712/tyler-sash (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1243712/tyler-sash)
A terrapin (turtle) who runs a 4.35 40-yard-dash? :what:
Hares beware. ;)
So now we have two Scotts in the backfield. I think everyone has already forgotten about Charles Scott from LSU who was signed late last season.
Quote from: President Rick on April 30, 2011, 05:58:28 PM
RB Da'Rel Scott. Maryland. had the fasted RB time in the 40...4.35 or so.
we'll keep BJ, AB, ware and Scott at RB.
Yes, I'm a Maryland grad [Ph.d., 1988]. Go Terps. GO GIANTS.
A gentleman and a scholar. Well, at least a scholar.
I'm looking forward to seeing what Da'Rel can do also. More so than most of the guys picked before him. A sub-4.4 RB would be a real weapon. Small, but so is Desean Jackson. That's probly why he lasted till the 6th. If he has the ability and we have the same to employ it, he'll be a a very welcome addition.
From Russ Lande
Scott is a three-year starter at RB for the Terrapins in 2010. However, he played in a 3-man rotation & finished as only their 2nd leading rusher this season. He has adequate size with some growth potential to develop for the position at the NFL level. He is an explosive, straight-line athlete with outstanding long speed, acceleration, & big-play potential to consider as a pro prospect. However, he shows marginal lateral quickness, cod ability, & elusiveness to be anything more than a back-up, role player at the next level. He is not a naturally instinctive runner; more like a track star playing football. He appears to run with blinders on, often missing the chance to cutback or bounce a ball outside. He is most effective in their offense, when he can make one cut, follow his FB, & accelerate up-field. He doesn
I read somewhere that...
" Williams is 6-1 and 216. That is not a typographical error. He weighs 216 pounds. The Giants have safeties who weigh more than he does."
You never know. Has special teams written all over him. It doesn't take much to upgrade the incumbents and any upgrade would be welcome.
"He's an incredibly unselfish young man. I don't know that I've ever been around anybody as committed as he is, with the heart he has," Holtz told the paper. "I hope my son grows up to be like Jacquian Williams. I feel that strongly about him as a young man."
I can see why Coughlin would want him. Discipline.
Da'Rel Scott Highlights 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hleY7FV8Lhk#ws)
Da'Rel Scott Mix [2008] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vNu1O6tWA#)
Problem is, if he contributes at all it will be on specials and 4.6 or whatever is only OK for that.
As a Hawkeye fan I think this is a great pick considering they got him in the 6th round. I don't know how he'll do in the NFL but he was pretty good with Iowa, from what I can remember, anyway.
Nice video, Vette. Fast, but straight line fast. Looks like some receiveing skills. I'd like to see how he does when defenders actually touch him.
I wonder what it's like to run that fast.
The pass catching ability made my eyes light up. Interesting pick.
Maybe he'll coach someday. Didn't see him do anything except clean up bad plays.
Quote from: Hooper74 on April 30, 2011, 01:29:44 PM
Injury prone, inexperienced, non nasty, non aggressive, questionable competitiveness and sounds like he's going to get flagged for holding on a regular basis and he's not a drive blocker. Score. I give everyone a shot, but, this reads like they drafted a career backup no better.
I think this pick is rather upsetting. As you said, injury prone and inexperienced. The Giants already have an offensive line full of guys with previous or current injuries and then they draft another who missed significant playing time due to injuries. Surely they could've found a more suitable pick to sub for an aging OL. Doesn't sound like one of JR's better picks.
According to Ralphie V, Williams apparently weighed in at 235lbs
Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2011, 08:09:42 PM
From Russ Lande
Scott is a three-year starter at RB for the Terrapins in 2010. However, he played in a 3-man rotation & finished as only their 2nd leading rusher this season. He has adequate size with some growth potential to develop for the position at the NFL level. He is an explosive, straight-line athlete with outstanding long speed, acceleration, & big-play potential to consider as a pro prospect. However, he shows marginal lateral quickness, cod ability, & elusiveness to be anything more than a back-up, role player at the next level. He is not a naturally instinctive runner; more like a track star playing football. He appears to run with blinders on, often missing the chance to cutback or bounce a ball outside. He is most effective in their offense, when he can make one cut, follow his FB, & accelerate up-field. He doesn
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Fastest-RB-at-Combine-falls-to-7th-round.html (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Fastest-RB-at-Combine-falls-to-7th-round.html)
So glad that early in the draft we got a tiny WR to work out of the slot who is quick, explosive, and returns kicks. Welcome to the G-men Sinori.... huh? wha? What year is this? Redfaced
MEDIA Q&A WITH GENERAL MANAGER JERRY REESE: (Video) Jacquian Williams
MEDIA Q&A WITH GENERAL MANAGER JERRY REESE: (Video) Da
MEDIA Q&A WITH GENERAL MANAGER JERRY REESE: (Video) James Brewer, Indiana
MEDIA Q&A WITH GENERAL MANAGER JERRY REESE: (Video) Tyler Sash
They've already laid the law down to him as they did for Bradshaw,who has been a perfect citizen. He didn't molest children,sell weapons to terrorists, beat his mother up, or torture and kill dogs,so give him a chance. He probably never saw a dollar until some sleezy agent flashed a few in front of him.
From the film I saw of him he could be a true beast on the field. If he's not smart enough to realize that a fortune awaits him for playing a game,then he deserves to have to depend on his college education to make a living,which should shortly have him living in a shelter.
He along with Joseph will be the starters next year,and the position will be secure for several years. Cofield can take his overinflated ego to another team.I don't blame him for wanting to get his free agent payday,but he was nothing more than a solid tackle,which is good,but he has convinced himself that he's a great tackle,which he's not. If he returned at a fair price the position would be very strong,but he's reaching for the moon.Good luck with that.
Anybody wanting complete profiles on all the draft picks go to Giants .com.
The difference here PSU is night and day. Watch the film on this kid. You're gonna love what you see.
I'm really excited about this pick.
I like this pick. He won't win a beauty contest,but despite his lack of athleticism he looks like he can play the game. Nothing flashy,but he strikes me as a player you'll like having on your team.Something like Chase Blackburn. He plays a position that needs depth,he will make the team.
Herb Welsh II?
Quote from: squibber on April 30, 2011, 11:33:36 PM
Herb Welsh II?
Good one, maybe he'll block a punt against the Packers.
Quote from: Slick on April 30, 2011, 09:44:29 PM
They've already laid the law down to him as they did for Bradshaw,who has been a perfect citizen. He didn't molest children,sell weapons to terrorists, beat his mother up, or torture and kill dogs,so give him a chance. He probably never saw a dollar until some sleezy agent flashed a few in front of him.
From the film I saw of him he could be a true beast on the field. If he's not smart enough to realize that a fortune awaits him for playing a game,then he deserves to have to depend on his college education to make a living,which should shortly have him living in a shelter.
He along with Joseph will be the starters next year,and the position will be secure for several years. Cofield can take his overinflated ego to another team.I don't blame him for wanting to get his free agent payday,but he was nothing more than a solid tackle,which is good,but he has convinced himself that he's a great tackle,which he's not. If he returned at a fair price the position would be very strong,but he's reaching for the moon.Good luck with that.
Cofield was our best DL last year. I guess I just haven't seen the "overinflated" ego that you have witnessed.
Well I'm sure Sinorice had a highlight film when he came out of college too. And he came out of Miami not Troy. Now I'm not saying this guy is as horrible as Moss, but the comparison is fair. Both small, fast, WRs who will have a tough time seeing the football field.
Look harder...he was the best lineman,but that doesn't make him Allen Page.
Jesse Armstead was a converted safety. He grew into the position over time.
From 2010 roster at USF web site:
57 Williams, Jacquian LB 6-3 216 Sr. Tampa, FL (Fort Scott CC) (Riverview HS)
The Sun Belt conference isn't exactly the NFC. I guess I'll wait and see.
I know it is a ridiculous comparison, but he reminds me a little of Jerry Rice or Chris Johnson with the way he runs away from people. Nothing shifty or fancy, just one move and then.......see ya.
not enthused about this guy but hope he proves me wrong...
Quote from: GiantFan67 on May 01, 2011, 10:04:00 AM
The Sun Belt conference isn't exactly the NFC. I guess I'll wait and see.
I agree but it is much a much better conference than some might think. Troy alone has produced guys like Umenyiora, Demarcus Ware, Tynes, and Leodis McKelvin. There are some athletes down there.
Wait.....I think I just called Lawrence Tynes and athlete. :confused:
Quote from: squibber on April 30, 2011, 11:33:36 PM
Herb Welsh II?
I was thinking more along the lines of Craig Dahl II. Very similar speed, size, and skill set.
great pick in the 7th round, a guy who can be a homer run hitter.
also everyone, the giants did sign, if they still have him, that kid from the canadien league as a back.
Guys, look at the physicality of the player. You should see that's where the comparisons end.
From today's NFP:
Things I Didn
The comparison between Moss & this kid is fair when you are comparing size --5'8"
One Difference is that Moss was fearful--this kid is fearless
Fladan
From today's NFP:
My Sunday Best: Value picks
Prince Amukamara, Giants
Quote from: Gmo11 on May 01, 2011, 12:46:21 AM
Well I'm sure Sinorice had a highlight film when he came out of college too. And he came out of Miami not Troy. Now I'm not saying this guy is as horrible as Moss, but the comparison is fair. Both small, fast, WRs who will have a tough time seeing the football field.
Agreed, hopefully he turns out to be better than Moss. If he ends up being a bust this was a very bad pick especially when you consider the other needs the Giants have.
The player had some ongoing injuries that kept him from getting on the field. Then Meggett's son got playing time shared. There were reasons his production went down. Go to Giants.com and under the player evaluations, the whole story is there. Coach Coughlin didn't want to throw anyone under the bus, so see it for yourself. It's there.
This kid is going to be a solid player for the giants.
I swear, some of you guys just are looking for an "I told you so" down the road.
Ok, I get the joke. The entire draft sucks and Reese all the way down to the Scouts on the road have no clue. Our season is shot because we don't have any good Linebackers and the O-line is in Depends Diapers. We should have taken Costanzo even though he was picked up before we could pick. Or, Ingram.
Ugh!
and the beat goes on........
Your all right he will get blown over like a stick in those stiff winds at Giant Stadium. Wasted pick, ripe for an "I told you so".
Hey wait just a second, I have a thought. Do you think it's possible that he might just be able to cover TE's from the Sam position? Maybe contribute to the putrid special teams everyone so loudly exposed last season while he learns the trade and puts on some muscle? Nahhhh. What a stupid ignorant thought.
some tidbits about jerrel......i can't wait to see him in the return game.....go Giants!!!!!
________________________________________________
"Jerrel Jernigan's 350 all purpose yards in the GMAC Bowl was the best ever in Troy universities' rich 100 year football history.
His 154 reception yards gave him 1101 for the season, the second most in school history and the only Sun Belt Conference receiver in 2009 to amass over 1000 yards.
His now total of 2264 all purpose yards in a season is the best in school history and the only Trojan to ever eclipse the 2000 yards plateau. Jerrel's season average of 159 all purpose yards per game is again record setting and Troy's best.
He broke the single season record of former Troy standout and current Buffalo Bills' return specialist Leodis Mckelvin's kickoff return yards total in a season with 897 (record 765).
Jerrel's on track to be the most prolific receiver in Troy University's history already having broke many records, as a junior, some that stood for more than 40 years old.
Quote from: dasher on May 01, 2011, 10:49:43 AM
From today's NFP:
My Sunday Best: Value picks
Prince Amukamara, Giants
I'm not saying he won't be a good pro and I don't know enough about the guy. I think my problem is that I was excited just a few years ago to get Moss, who I thought would do the things this guy is supposed to do.
And the fact that he broke records at Troy doesn't really impress me. PSU just sent their all-time leading rusher to the Redskins in the 6th round. This is a guy who amassed more yards than Curt Warner, Ki-Jana Carter, Lydell Mitchell, Lenny Moore, Curtis Enis, Larry Johnson, Blair Thomas.... Anyway, records can be deceiving and are not great indicators of future NFL success.
Quote from: vette on May 01, 2011, 11:12:47 AM
Your all right he will get blown over like a stick in those stiff winds at Giant Stadium. Wasted pick, ripe for an "I told you so".
Hey wait just a second, I have a thought. Do you think it's possible that he might just be able to cover TE's from the Sam position? Maybe contribute to the putrid special teams everyone so loudly exposed last season while he learns the trade and puts on some muscle? Nahhhh. What a stupid ignorant thought.
Getting a little exasperated?
LOL
Relax, some guys can't be happy if they aren't being negative.
Of course ot is far too simplistic to try and extrapolate from the benchmark with Leodis McKelvin but I'd certainly settle for something similar to the impact he made in his rookie season on kick returns. However, the same comparison gives some reason for worry as McKelvin has had some injuries and become less effective on returns, although increased playing time at CB last year was probably a factor as well.
Quote from: troyfan on April 30, 2011, 08:14:41 PM
Problem is, if he contributes at all it will be on specials and 4.6 or whatever is only OK for that.
I think it can be too easy to be negative sometimes with a kid like this. He's raw so special teams is where he'll start but if you look at the film he is pretty good in coverage (athleticsm like his really helps there as well) and he has a great motor and willingness to hit. Given decent coaching and appropriate opportunities to develop he could shape up as a very good WLB two years out. At least he isn't a DE-LB tweener or four year mediocre big school starter which makes a refreshing change for us! My biggest fear is that I think our LB coaching is below average so he may not get what he needs to develop.
I hope someone shows Osi and Prince this! (yes, as a Brit I know Osi was born on London, UK...but we all know how proud he is of his roots). I like to see defenders playing with a chip on their shoulder 8))
I like Cofield a lot but if you made me pick between him and Keith Hamilton in his prime than I know who I'd choose ;)
Having said that, it is a big stretch for a rookie and/or a second year guy with almost no rookie playing time to step in and improve a D if it loses an above average NFL performer like Cofield. Not impossible, but I'd judge not probable (unless the rookie is named Suh!).
In the Sporting News - NFL Draft Preview edition - Russ Lande assigned the "best" label to Prince in the following categories:
Zone Coverage - Amukumara
vs. the Runn - Amukumara
I still think he fell in the Draft due to incredible reaching for the QB position. Every player has "negatives" - there are no exceptions - so I don't buy the whole soft because he is Nigerian garbage. He is labeled as the most physical CB in this Draft - so where is the legitimacy in that claim?
That's why they play the game. Talk is cheap. All we can really want at this stage is to be able to see something in them that gives some cause for guarded optimism. The thing about Sash, and our other R6 picks, is they all seem to be high effort, committed and professional guys. Of course they all have either athletic or experience limitations but the odds are that one or more of them will find a way to really help the team. We don't have to buy into all the post draft waffle and hype to agree that we have to give all these guys a chance before either condemning or annointing them.
In the Sporting News - Draft Preview Edition, Russ Lande assigned the "best" tag to Jernigan in "after the catch". As to being small, DeSean Jackson is smaller than Jernigan and how is he making out?
In the Sporting News - NFL Draft Preview edition, Russ Lande assigned the "best" category to Jones in two categories: (1) vs. the inside run, and (2) versatility. So the Giants may try him at the Sam spot - barring any Free Agents signed. It looks as iif his strengths are similiar to Goff - so I would suspect that if they slot Jones at MLB, whoever can cover the pass better will win the starting job.
I said yesterday that I saw this kid play vs UCONN--I saw him run down and catch Jordan Todman--I know, I know Todman is no Heisman candidate but if you believe the numbers from the Combine--Todman ran a 4.4--so maybe we shouldn't always believe the numbers--maybe Williams is faster than 4.6 or Todman is not a 4.4 guy--but I know what I saw--but what impressed me the most about this kid was his relentless motor--He never quit on any play--he went full bore all the time and was all over the field--but more impressive is everything I have read about this kid --he is an exceptional character kind of guy
I am rooting for him
Fladan
I can see the after the catch ranking. When you watch the tape he just makes people miss, even when he is stood still. I know some of the competition wasn't elite but the numbers he put up shows that he has talent. Can he be durable? He has been but the pros are bigger and tougher on average. If he can stay on the field he'll be fun to watch.
Quote from: vette on May 01, 2011, 11:12:47 AM
Your all right he will get blown over like a stick in those stiff winds at Giant Stadium. Wasted pick, ripe for an "I told you so".
Hey wait just a second, I have a thought. Do you think it's possible that he might just be able to cover TE's from the Sam position? Maybe contribute to the putrid special teams everyone so loudly exposed last season while he learns the trade and puts on some muscle? Nahhhh. What a stupid ignorant thought.
Ed, you're right. It seems the Giants are adding some speed and youth to their special teams. The bonus for guys like this will be if they can add to the defensive packages in certain situations.
Quote from: vette on May 01, 2011, 11:07:16 AM
The player had some ongoing injuries that kept him from getting on the field. Then Meggett's son got playing time shared. There were reasons his production went down. Go to Giants.com and under the player evaluations, the whole story is there. Coach Coughlin didn't want to throw anyone under the bus, so see it for yourself. It's there.
This kid is going to be a solid player for the giants.
I swear, some of you guys just are looking for an "I told you so" down the road.
Ok, I get the joke. The entire draft sucks and Reese all the way down to the Scouts on the road have no clue. Our season is shot because we don't have any good Linebackers and the O-line is in Depends Diapers. We should have taken Costanzo even though he was picked up before we could pick. Or, Ingram.
Ugh!
Ed, I am sensing you're getting frustrated, which of course is not easy to do around here. :laugh: It will all prove itself on the field, one way or another, in time. The only thing I would add is, although I am very happy with the Price pick, Costanzo was picked by Indy at 22, we could have had him. Although, as I said, I have no problem with Prince. We needed a qualtiy CB. But, isn't this fun? LOL
I don't know why you guys are down on this player. He was a basketball player who only started playing football later on than most. So there is plenty of opportunities to grow into the position. As MG pointed out - former NFL Scout Russ Lande had him as solid 2nd Rounder and has "the ability to start at RT in his first season at the NFL level".
This is a 4th Round selection - so the value is certainly there. Of course time will tell what we actually have, but regardless, this kid has the potential to be a very good player in this league.
I think we have to keep in mind that this is a 6th Round Draft pick. If he can upgrade STs and provide some LB depth, then what is there not to like? As has been pointed out - the Special Teams were putrid last year. All of the latter Round Draft picks can provide some help to that unit. Now if we can find a coach!
Quote from: todge on May 01, 2011, 01:22:33 PM
In the Sporting News - NFL Draft Preview edition - Russ Lande assigned the "best" label to Prince in the following categories:
Zone Coverage - Amukumara
vs. the Runn - Amukumara
I still think he fell in the Draft due to incredible reaching for the QB position. Every player has "negatives" - there are no exceptions - so I don't buy the whole soft because he is Nigerian garbage. He is labeled as the most physical CB in this Draft - so where is the legitimacy in that claim?
But I do think it might have been his dad, the King, who sent me a letter about $23,000,000 he was trying to get out of Nigeria into the US and if I helped him by sending him all of my banking information I would get half of it. LOL
His false steps will result in more big plays for the offense than it ever did in college, so he's going to have to get better with anticipation and route recognition. I suppose you think that's an Amukamara reference. The fact is it's someone's notion of a chink in the glistening armor of one Patrick Peterson. If you are of a mind, you can find a negative to cherry-pick for every player in the Draft, or already in the NFL for that matter.
I share Todge's view; I think what he has said is accurate and appropriate. The Giants got themselves a player at 19 who was ranked among the Top 10 in the Draft irrespective of position, and for good reason. Is that a problem?
Cheers!
After getting over the "who?" aspect of the pick, I like it. Young, fast, athletic. If he only contributes on ST that's fine.
I doubt that Todge. Goff knows the system inside out and has a whole season starting at the NFL level to a more or less acceptable standard The coaching staff obviously respect him and that counts for far more than any of our doubts. With the impact of the labour dispute making it harder for rookies Jones is more likely to end up on the Practice Squad because he can't get ahead of Dillard and Blackburn than he is to be starting . His first order of business should simply be to make the team, doing whatever it takes to make that happen and that might well mean auditioning at SAM.
Yes I understand that anyone can look good in a highlite film BUT if this kid Scott and Jernigan can come anywheres close to what these films show our Giants offense could end up being an awful lot of fun to watch. A cloud of dust and they are gone. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed.
I'm glad the Giants had that problem.
It sounds like he has all the physical tools to be an elite LT. With the proper coaching, he could be the LT of the future.
The image of De sea Jackson taunting us in our own ballpark and running parallel to the goal line should be more than enough incentive to make Special Teams a major priority.
It appears JR did just that.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on May 01, 2011, 12:25:07 PMPSU just sent their all-time leading rusher to the Redskins in the 6th round. This is a guy who amassed more yards than Curt Warner, Ki-Jana Carter, Lydell Mitchell, Lenny Moore, Curtis Enis, Larry Johnson, Blair Thomas.... Anyway, records can be deceiving and are not great indicators of future NFL success.
Definitely not for PSU RBs. But normally, they are something to go on.
Bulluck is a FA, Blackburn is a FA, Wilks is a FA. I think Jones has a good shot of making the team, if for nothing but depth purposes.
Goff's rookie contract expires in 2012. Do we extend him or is he viewed as a stopgap?
DeSean Jackson is a 4.2 40 guy, and while I'm not a fan of using that particular test as the be all end all of evaluation like Al Davis does, it does show some separation when comparing him to Jerrigan who was a 4.4 speed. Big difference from being the fastest guy on the football field to being one of the fastest guys on the football field.
Todge-Jackson is taller-5'10" and weighs 175. JJ is 5' 8" and weighs 181. Pretty much a tie insofar as size is concerned.
How many household names go in the 6th and 7th rounds? As Reese said about the last pick,he hopes to catch lightening in a bottle. Surely one can hope for a good catch in the late rounds,but it shouldn't be something that's expected. Just let them play and see what happens.
I do have faith that the Giants landed two 6th rounders in Jones and Sash that will definitely help the team in a big way. If two out of four of the last picks become valuable,that's damn good drafting. Anything more than that is a huge serving of gravy.
Jones will be picked off the practice squad,which is a complete farce, as soon as teams are allowed to raid it.
=))
Quote from: CAGiantFan on May 01, 2011, 01:55:47 PM
But I do think it might have been his dad, the King, who sent me a letter about $23,000,000 he was trying to get out of Nigeria into the US and if I helped him by sending him all of my banking information I would get half of it. LOL
Now that's funny, thanks I needed a good chuckle.
Quote from: Slick on May 01, 2011, 01:08:18 AM
Look harder...he was the best lineman,but that doesn't make him Allen Page.
I don't see your point. I don't see the attitude and obnoxious self-promotion...
He had his best season as a Giant and you seam to bear some animosity towards him. Two years ago everyone was high on Jay Alford and he got injured...last season it was Lival Jospeh and he was inactive most of the year.
I like the pick and we need depth. Think of it. Steve Smith who I love may not be himself in 2011. Hixon is not only a 4th/5th WR, he's our KR/PR and he's coming back off of surgery. Manningham was not injury free. Barden is coming off an injury. It's just Nicks that is coming back 100%. Cruz maybe the next healthiest coming back. Smart pick. Cover WR/slot and ST's. Heck who knows, maybe a few gadget plays.
Jones and Dillard battle Goff for the MLB. With Wilks, Bullock and maybe Blackburn gone, he probably makes it.
You got Sintim, Tracey and Boley. Maybe Kiwi if he resigned. Who else? Maybe Ingram??
It's potential and he's got it. It's a crap shoot. If half the picks work out that would be great.
if Grant doesn't resign he's probably got a spot on the team. You never know Phillip's knee over time. Good pick and just like every other pick, it's a crap shoot over potential.
I said several times that I like him as a player and would like to see him return. I even believe he still has upside to his game. I really like his toughness. That said,to be the best defensive tackle on the Giants you have to outplay Canty, Bernard,and Joseph. Therefore it's not a great accomplishment to be the best on this team. I can't blame him for being frustrated about the turn of events that prevented him from getting his freedom to this point. He seems to be holding the Giants responsible for that,when they are just exercising their rights under the rules to keep him,which he should understand. The current situation is one that has every potential free agent frozen,and is not the teams fault.
They may still try to sign him,but with the addition of Austin I doubt they will try as hard. He just seems to have an attitude that he's God's gift to free agency,and teams will be groveling at his feet to sign him. Like many free agents he probably will be overpaid,and more power to him,but becoming a free agent makes some players think they are much better a player than they actually are. He's one of them.
terrymeisner I did not see that report could you please forward the link.
Also, I think being quite honest many college students have smoked at one time or another. m not excusing the behavior if he in fact was using MJ, however if he is no longer making poor decisions, then a second chance should be afforded him.
The type player I would be concerned with greatly would be one that was using since high school or prior to. The latter player exhibits a pattern.
JR says the kid has been checked out thoroughly, thus until further notice I think we say welcome aboard and lets get down to some hard work.
I had us taking a OL, LB and CB in the 1st 3 rounds. CB is too important and we need 3 top CB's on the field every game. Between Webster, Thomas, Ross and now Price, we have 4. There is going to be injuries so expect at least 3 to play every game.
Remember how deep we were at WR last year? How about DL and then we lose Kiwi?
He may not be a Revis but if he's a Thomas or Webster level, our defense and indirectly our pass rush just got better!
I think its worth the shot. We probably lose Cofield. Rocky could get cut as we all that he would last year. Kiwi is not a lock to resign. They took a shot on a 1st round talent to offer themselves more flexibility with FA when it finally comes around. Since we rotate guys, having atleast 3 DT's is important and we have 4 to 5 quality players going into the season (Joseph, Canty, Austin, Rocky, Cofield?)
Quote from: worf49 on May 02, 2011, 02:01:51 AM
terrymeisner I did not see that report could you please forward the link.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/sports/football/11tyree.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/sports/football/11tyree.html)
Quote from: troyfan on May 01, 2011, 12:00:36 PM
How many players can be picked in the 3rd round? Everything I've ever read about every guy drated by every team says he should have been picked earlier than he was. Everyone had the best draft. No one had a worse draft than anyone else, but everyone did better than everyone else.
Ask a Bills' or Jaguars' fan how they feel about their team's draft.
Quote from: bigblueinclearbluenc on May 02, 2011, 06:46:59 AM
I had us taking a OL, LB and CB in the 1st 3 rounds. CB is too important and we need 3 top CB's on the field every game. Between Webster, Thomas, Ross and now Price, we have 4. There is going to be injuries so expect at least 3 to play every game.
Remember how deep we were at WR last year? How about DL and then we lose Kiwi?
He may not be a Revis but if he's a Thomas or Webster level, our defense and indirectly our pass rush just got better!
This is true BigBlue. Every season players are lost to injury. It's the quality of the depth that keeps you going. The depth of the defense will be the best it's been that I can remember. The weak links will be part of the final cut. I'm looking for a Linebacker in FA and that's all that's needed on the defensive side of the ball.
Ed,
Time for me to express my manlove for free agent tobe Barrett Ruud again? Or is he not a good fit since a Mike and I need to keep my emotions in check?
dasher
Wasn't Cofield tendered at the second round level? If another team signs him then we receive a #2, correct?
I really like this guy. Watched him several times when Mich St. was on. Reminds me of David Harris, LB for the tenants.
The Giants obviously believe in their coaching staff and their ability to teach. JR drafts players with athletic ability, raw materials, and hands them over to the coaching staff to hewn.
Guy Whimper redux?
Quote from: dasher on May 02, 2011, 09:25:07 AM
Ed,
Time for me to express my manlove for free agent tobe Barrett Ruud again? Or is he not a good fit since a Mike and I need to keep my emotions in check?
dasher
I think you need to ask the Grizz what he did to land a Cornerback as the first pick of the draft. It might have been a prayer, maybe he lit a candle or it could just be he has an Angel in Heaven giving him loving support. I like to think it's the Angel. Perhaps he can put in a good word for you.
mini - JPP???
maybe he's a SSafety?
Correct.
at 211, not so small. I see him as another AB, whether we res-gn AB or not [I hope we do]. if he can catch the ball consistently it opens some dimensions for Eli that we really haven't exploited since tiki's days;, and a possible second slot receiver shifting out of the backfield on 3rd down. we had a kid from Maryland a few years ago [DB?] but he didn't make the team. I'll be excitted to see Scott at camp [you guys too...LOL]. Go Giants
I believe they are looking at him for ORT and then as a swing tackle to take over once Kareem retires or gets injured. Beatty is being earmarked for OLT unless he bombs out in Training Camp.
Teams very rarely stash Draft picks on the Practice Squad. Therefore it is highly unlikely they would put Jones there. This team is so LB-starved that it is pretty much a no-brainer that Jones makes the team this year.
I find it interesting that many of you compare Jernigan to Moss only because they are both "small". That's like saying Ramses Barden is just like Plax because they are both tall. I think we need to measure football players on how they play the game ... not on their size.
As to the schools they went to as another barometer - Jerry Rice went to Mississippi Valley State. That year, there were plenty of Big Ten and SEC players that bombed in the NFL. It's not the school you go to, once again, it's the player you are regardless of competition.
I saw Jernigan play several times this year and last. He was easily the best offensive player on the field. The Draft is a crapshoot - yes indeed. But I would be very surprised if Jernigan doesn't start in the slot this year and becomes one of the Giants' best offensive players.
Todge
I saw him play as well--he is a helluva offensive weapon--but as I said yesterday--just having him on Special Teams will be enough for me to start--I know I am repeating myself but how many times last year did we bitch and complain about lousy field position because we had NO return game--this kid can change that in a hurry.
And as I said yesterday--the comparison to Moss is fair in size only--even though I believe this kid is a good 10 lbs heavier--this kid does not go down with just being touched--he is a "hard" runner--if that is a proper football term--
So I am willing to wait for camp and the first exhibition game to see if my take on this kid is as good then as it is today
Fladan
Meet or PR, finally...
When (IF) the new BA gets done, one of the changes will be rules re; PS. Players on PS's will be protected so the investment in a particular Player won't go out the window just so somebody can pick his brain. Teams reportedly will be able to stash players there without losing them with zero compensation.
Chris, good get re; LB FA. Ciao dudes.
Question: How is Jones such a "Steal"? We took him @ # 185 overall. He was projected @ # 142 overall.
Read they want Brewer to GAIN 15 - 20 lbs.
Currently strictly RT.
Remember how Koets was manhandled his Rook Camp?
Got a feelin' this kid will be some of the same. He sports potential, so let's coach him up & be patient.
Quote from: Jaime on May 02, 2011, 02:08:29 PM
Question: How is Jones such a "Steal"? We took him @ # 185 overall. He was projected @ # 142 overall.
Who was projecting him at 142, Jaime? I saw him as high as 73rd and most spots had him slotted as a third or fourth rounder.
BULLSEYE!
Was on the phone with my Giant's bud, when our 2nd Rd. selection popped up.
1st words out of my mouth, ciao for Cofield!
bigbluein, agree 100%
Dasher, I was surprised as well when I checked out Sash on CBS sports.
#1 SS projected to go #77 overall. We selected him #198 overall, not bad value there.
This is an "In the box" SS with plenty of savvy & smarts. He's a big hitter that's not gifted athletically. But make no mistake, he's a Player. JR said this kid has the ability to run our entire D. Should be good depth @ SS.
Does he remind anyone else of the lightly regarded and too slow and small ... Antonio Pierce??
I'm excited about Scott, but he's not going to be another AB. AB is a baby bull and doesn't have breakaway speed. Scott is more of a cut and go burner. AB knocked Haynesworth off his feet -- that kind of power for size is rare.
Being a Coughlin team, there's no way Scott is taking the field until he learns to pick up blitzes.
Noticed the comparisons to Sinorce Moss here so I found another post on another site and here goes .............
" I hope your not talking about Sinorice Moss...lol He was all upside, and very little on field production... Do u guys even know these things, before u write em down...lol
Sinorice Moss Career at Miami= 57rec 965yrd 9td / 7rush 55yrd 0td Thats his career!!!
Jerrell Jerrnigan Sr yr alone = 84rec 822yrd 6td/ 45rush 322yrd 3td Thats just his SR Yr!!!
Jerrnigan for his career= 232recept 3128yrd 18td / 132rush 892yrd 5td and he had at least 2td passes and i don't have his return numbers..."
I say at least see the guy on the field before making such unfavorable comparisons ..........
I don't know - he may be able to contribute immediately. He handled Redskin Ryan Kerrigan pretty easily not allowing one sack or pressure the entire game. Injuries have held him back the past few years. Considering he didn't even start to play football until late in high school, his best years are ahead of him.
While conventional wisdom suggests that the Giants picked high value selections up and down the board, Cold Hard Football Facts included one of Reese's picks in their first round mock, and it wasn't Austin:
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3707_CHFF%27s_anti-Mock_Draft.html (http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3707_CHFF%27s_anti-Mock_Draft.html)
Curioisly, they didn't mention the Sash pick in their draft reviews.
I wished I lived next door to Ronnie Barnes. I would love to know the up-to-the-minute, actual medical conditions of Koets, Seubert, O'Hara and Andrews. I would also ask him what the coaches really think of Beatty. I'm trying to look at it that with the Giants passing on some pretty good o-line talent, the positives may be outweighing the negatives on the players mentioned above at this time.
Quote from: files58 on May 02, 2011, 09:42:41 AM
Wasn't Cofield tendered at the second round level? If another team signs him then we receive a #2, correct?
Yes, as were Bradshaw, Kiwi and would you believe; Tollefson?
We all know the tenders are meaningless until a new CBA is reached yet I doubt any team will just lose a player overnight without compensation.
Quote from: TONKA56 on April 30, 2011, 05:12:40 PM
Quote from: NYSPORTS on April 29, 2011, 08:23:45 PM
Giants will be running a 5-2-4 defense (with two hybrid DE at linebacker)
Tuck-Austin-Canty-JPP-Osi
Kiwi (lb) Sintim (lb)
Prince, Webster, Thomas, Rolle
So Austin leapfrogs Joseph?
No, I figure Austin is a 3-tech while Joseph is a 1. B.T.W. - the scheme is a joke lol
I think the reason the Giants "passed on some pretty good offensive line talent" has more to do with the Giants taking the highest rated player on their Board rather than being happy with what they currently have.
Bingo Uni! That is why guys who run 4.2 40x times drop to the 7th Round. He is apparently a track guy and shies away from the dirty stuff such as picking up blitzes.
He is the opposite of Joseph,hes lazy,doesnt work hard,plays when he wants,not just the weed and the agent,he encouraged others on the UNC team to do it as well,also got caught cheating academically.threw his team and coach under the bus,and hurt his teammates especially the lbers and their draft status playing behind 2 nd string dts their senior season.Please dont ever say the Giants wont draft someone because of character issues anymore ,,,its too late for that now.If you watch him play I have live 5 times and his clips you see a lot of bad habits and poor tackling .Lastly,I really think Joseph will show everyone a lot this season
Miami vs. Troy. Who does Troy play?
Writes Kerry Byrne, "In a best-case scenario, Jernigan emerges into a Wes Welker-type possession receiver underneath. But that's an awful lot to expect. And I'm concerned by his very humble average of 9.8 yards per catch in 2010 (84 catches, 822 yards). He's not the player who's going to help a downfield attack."
He gave the Giants'draft B- overall.
todge: I saw scott on tv a few times and didn't see such glaring problems. granted every college RB has to improve in pass blocking but he's not a wuzz. and at 211 he's knocked over a few tacklers. maybe not as strong as AB but not every running play goes off guard.
Jacobs and Bradshaw had to learn how to block in pass protection their first year too. Let him step on a field before we say he can't do it.
I'm not saying he can or he can't - we'll soon find out, hopefully. As Uni said, if he can't pick it up he won't see the field.
That's the first grade I've seen below B+ so far. I know we gravitate towards opinions that support our own.
Besides, the writer is basically putting it all on Prince's shoulders. If Prince shines, the grade becomes a A, in his opinion.
Sorry Chris, I was responding to Todge's comment. I got the impression he commented along that line of thinking. Although I have to say that I never saw this player play one game. I'm just going off the film I saw. If Todge saw him play, then I would absolutely trust his very astute assessment. He's usually right on.
Carl Banks said he's his Dark Horse and will compete for a job.
The rap on him is that he shies away from the "dirty" stuff. But I never said he can't learn to pick up blitzes. If you recall, Bradshaw was pretty bad his rookie year at that. Once TC sat him down, he got better. So there is certainly hope.
One of the "negatives" with Scott is that he is a track guy who plays football. The key is to whether he can become a football player who runs like a track guy. The last guy who shied away from contact was Sinorice Moss and we know what that attribute did to his career.
Once again, we are faced with different scouting reports on players. This is not uncommon.
Anyway - while Byrnes feels JJ will not be a downfield threat and is not that adept at yards-after-catch (YAC), former Scout Russ Lande gave JJ the "best after the catch" tag among all WRs in this year's Draft.
Now I would be more inclined to lean towards a former scout than a beat football writer (who wouldn't?). But regardless, we all know that you never really know what you have in a player until they take the field in an NFL game. So time will tell ....
jones has thighs like friggen tree trunks.....go Giants!!!!!
Then again too ... perhaps Grizz has an "in" with the Prince of Darkness? Sometimes his posts are a bit devilish. ;)
Grizz on the dark side? Naaaaaa. He's the nicest man you would ever want to meet. Trust me on that one.
Vette, no apology necessary.
From the limited film I've seen, he doesn't seem to be particularly shifty, but when you hit a hole and BOOM you're past the secondary I don't know if shiftiness is needed. Most rookies need work with blitz pickup.
He has nice size and speed and, apparently, KR ability. If he proves he can perform in that capacity, at least, he will make the team and get a gameday jersey.
JR did admit they "took a flier" on this player, so he's not a lock, by any means.
Quote from: UniHamachi on May 02, 2011, 06:56:04 PM
While conventional wisdom suggests that the Giants picked high value selections up and down the board, Cold Hard Football Facts included one of Reese's picks in their first round mock, and it wasn't Austin:
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3707_CHFF%27s_anti-Mock_Draft.html (http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3707_CHFF%27s_anti-Mock_Draft.html)
Curioisly, they didn't mention the Sash pick in their draft reviews.
Interesting list, I like the idea of considering just production. Not that it gives a complete picture but it does give a better view of one of the legs of my draft triad (production, mental, athletic ability)
Head of scouting already said Brewer won't be thrown in the fire. He's a project, just like Petrus and practically every other player drafted.
Names like Tyson Clabo, Ryan Harris, Jared Gaither, Jermon Bushrod, Tony Ugoh, Deuce Lutui, Davin Joseph, etc will fill an void this OL has.
I'd me much more panicked if the defense, which gave up 427 points in 2009 and showed up again late in 2010, wasn't addressed.
Scott has good enough hands to be a relible option as a reciever.
He had a MONSTER Soph. year. His productin fell off Jr. & Sr. years with nagging injuries.
Did haave a knee procedure. Likely he'll get spot duty that will reduce injury risk.
With Jerrel Jernigan returning Punts, & Da Rel Scott returning KO's, could be real interestin' for us in return game.
I agree - Kareem is solidly entrenched at ORT.
However, I would be surprised if Prince doesn't beat out TT for the starting CB job. If Smith can't make it back - I would also be surprised if Jernigan doesn't start in the slot (who else is there?). If Cofield is sent packing - I would also be surprised if Austin doesn't get rotation time.
Quote from: Jian on May 02, 2011, 04:08:29 PM
Noticed the comparisons to Sinorce Moss here so I found another post on another site and here goes .............
" I hope your not talking about Sinorice Moss...lol He was all upside, and very little on field production... Do u guys even know these things, before u write em down...lol
Sinorice Moss Career at Miami= 57rec 965yrd 9td / 7rush 55yrd 0td Thats his career!!!
Jerrell Jerrnigan Sr yr alone = 84rec 822yrd 6td/ 45rush 322yrd 3td Thats just his SR Yr!!!
Jerrnigan for his career= 232recept 3128yrd 18td / 132rush 892yrd 5td and he had at least 2td passes and i don't have his return numbers..."
I say at least see the guy on the field before making such unfavorable comparisons ..........
Another person could look at those stats and easily tell you the story that Moss was clearly the more explosive player- 3 more TD's in 27 less catches...much higher ypc....
Anyway, the comparison is a bit unfair and I'm sorry I brought it up. You're right- we need to see these guys on the field.
Terrymeisner and Chris thanks for the links.
Worf, my pleasure. I actually enjoyed reading that NYT article a great deal.
I agree todge. If Prince doesn't beat out TT, I'd be upset. I think it all depends on how much camp time [if there is camp this season] that Prince gets. If he gets significant camp time, I would expect him to start, maybe not the first few weeks, but sometime soon after the season starts, whenever that may be.
I think Prince will be the cover slot. He will be great in run support of an 11 formation. He might very well settle in at Safety with his skill set someday. Get the best players on the field.
Ive read a lot hes the typical looks like Tarzan plays like Jane player,cant fight off blocks and isnt much of a hitter,he seems to be good in coverage though.
Link gives the full skinny on Marvin Austin, please disregard the "go broncos" at the end:
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/talegating-marvin-austin (http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/talegating-marvin-austin)
It's not unfair in the sense that the disaster that is Sinorice Moss is fresh in all of our minds. Then we draft another diminutive WR and understandably fear history will repeat itself. Jerrigan has better stats than Moss in college agreed, but also against lower competition. That's not to say he's definitely going to stink, but it doesn't exactly brood confidence either. At the end of the day its all about the individual. Does he work hard, does he fight through contact, does he read the holes, does he return kicks fearlessly? The answers to those questions will determine how his career goes. Having said that, I'm of the opinion the pick could have been better served drafting an OL or LB than another WR who, may not see the field much on offense at all. And if all our guys come back healthy, that's a big if I know, he may not see the field on offense AT ALL.
Assuming that a player is going to replicate the career of a bust because they share a similar body type seems like an inexact metric to me. It seems like people who didn't like the pick are reaching for more reasons not to like it. Can we assume that Brewer is the next Jumbo Elliot because they both went to Big Ten schools?
Regarding the "Troy is not Miami" angle, how did that work out for Osi and DeMarcus Ware?
Quote from: Chris on May 06, 2011, 07:53:49 AM
Assuming that a player is going to replicate the career of a bust because they share a similar body type seems like an inexact metric to me. It seems like people who didn't like the pick are reaching for more reasons not to like it. Can we assume that Brewer is the next Jumbo Elliot because they both went to Big Ten schools?
Regarding the "Troy is not Miami" angle, how did that work out for Osi and DeMarcus Ware?
I think those 2 were more dominant. It might be true that people who didn't like a pick reach for more reasons not to like it afterwards. But the converse is true also. Look no further that the about face many board member have performed with Greg Jones: a barely mentioned prospect in a weak LB class who now that the Giants have drafted him, is hailed as the solution to all our LB problems.
The way I look at it at this point is that no one has any new information. Everything that can be known about the 2011 class is known. Rehashing old information does not make it new or more insightful. Neither does it shed anymore light on a prospect's likely success. We can only wait for mini-camps or whatever is next. Usually those don't shed much light, either.
We can all try to make ourselves feel better about our picks, now that they are ours. Or we can nurse our grievances that our favorites were selected by other teams. But neither yields any further insight on how the new Giants will actually perform.
Only time will tell.
Quote from: troyfan on May 06, 2011, 08:13:38 AM
Look no further that the about face many board member have performed with Greg Jones: a barely mentioned prospect in a weak LB class who now that the Giants have drafted him, is hailed as the solution to all our LB problems.
While I agree this was a weak LB class, Jones was not a barely mentioned prospect.
Troy, you and I agree that only time will tell on all of these prospects. Time will also tell what the roster will look like come training camp. I think the absence of FA prior to (and after) the draft has compounded the angst some of us feel about the picks because we don't have the complete picture yet. In a normal year, I think there would be less question marks.
Then again. in a normal year, the Eagles might have Patrick Peterson, after trading Kolb to the Cardinals. There's a silver lining to everything, I guess...
I think the drafting of Jernigan directly relates to the beating the Eagles gave us with their speed last year. We all knew that the Giants were too slow on defense and drafting this guy is a move in the right direction. As far as the comparison of Jernigan to Moss goes there really is none because Moss really didn't do much in college other than he had the speed we're looking for....
At the end of the day, is the pick defensible? Can what the player potentially bring to the table - or the apparent role they were drafted for - help the team? I think that's all you can ask in the draft. Given the uncertainty regarding Smith, the current WR depth, and the woeful return game we fielded last year, this pick makes sense. Would I have preferred a LB? Sure, but I can't be upset with a pick that can be defended.
The team is never going to pick every and all the players and/or positions that we want and think we need. We have too many needs each year to do that. I think you can make a compelling argument for each pick. That's good enough for me.
I don't think there's an accurate way to quantify the statement, "position X would have helped us more at that pick." Based on the crapshoot nature of the draft, all of the players we picked could be stars or not make the team.
Quote from: Chris on May 06, 2011, 10:34:21 AM
At the end of the day, is the pick defensible? Can what the player potentially bring to the table - or the apparent role they were drafted for - help the team? I think that's all you can ask in the draft. Given the uncertainty regarding Smith, the current WR depth, and the woeful return game we fielded last year, this pick makes sense. Would I have preferred a LB? Sure, but I can't be upset with a pick that can be defended.
The team is never going to pick every and all the players and/or positions that we want and think we need. We have too many needs each year to do that. I think you can make a compelling argument for each pick. That's good enough for me.
I don't think there's an accurate way to quantify the statement, "position X would have helped us more at that pick." Based on the crapshoot nature of the draft, all of the players we picked could be stars or not make the team.
I would have preferred a top tier LB as well but after taking a look at the last bunch a Giant drafts it has become clear that they don't value the position the way I do. >:(
Being that this was such an awful LB class - what kind of "top tier" LB did you have in mind in the 3rd Round?
To me anyway, it has become quite clear that the Giants don't draft positions - they draft the highest rated player on their Board. So I didn't see any top-tier LBs on the Board at that selection. I am curious who you wanted.
Prince HAS to start. otherwise , it's more of the same. And "same" isn't good enough.
todge, I think it's a bit of both...value was too good to pass on. & remember, although we may think our OL looked to be all beat-up & in disarray, as a unit they got they sure got the job done.
Brewer will set the bar in Camp & Pre. Then we go from there. Thinkin' he's more Project than player, but he may surprise. As far as Prince, don't be in such a hurry to throw TT on the scrape pile. TT played two seasons @ S before switchin' to CB @ USC for Pete Carroll. So if KP doesn't improve, TT may move over?
Quote from: todge on May 06, 2011, 12:14:43 PM
Being that this was such an awful LB class - what kind of "top tier" LB did you have in mind in the 3rd Round?
To me anyway, it has become quite clear that the Giants don't draft positions - they draft the highest rated player on their Board. So I didn't see any top-tier LBs on the Board at that selection. I am curious who you wanted.
I didn't see any of what i would call a top tier LB in the 3rd round but there were some in the earlier rounds i would have liked with probably more potential but we went to Walmart again for another bargain so all i can do is wish for the best....
Uni made a great point in an earlier thread, we could have picked Jones in the 3rd round - where many experts thought he could go - and JR would have been lauded for drafting for a need position. We draft the same player in the 6th round - an outright steal, based on his 3rd round grade - and JR's a bum who's mortgaging the future of the position.
Quote from: todge on May 06, 2011, 12:14:43 PM
To me anyway, it has become quite clear that the Giants don't draft positions - they draft the highest rated player on their Board.
Todge, I think you're on the money here. I think most of us think when our pick is coming up - and I am not excluding myself here - "we need a LB, who are the best LB prospects still available?" JR and crew certainly do not think that way. They think, "our pick is next, who is the best player on our board that is still available?" Thank God for that.
Well I have to believe Jones lasted to the 6th inning for a reason. It wasn't as if teams forgot of his existence is it? Even the Giants passed on him in the 3rd and 4th rounds. I think that 3rd round grade on him was probably not accurate. But yes, if the Giants had picked a LB in the 3rd round that didn't play safety or DE in college then yes I think most people around here would have been more excited about the pick than using it on a 6th rounder.
After the fact, it's easy to question the projected slot of a prospect, Gmo. The fact still remains, Jones could have been picked 1-3 rounds earlier than he was and, based on the reports leading up to the draft, no one would have blinked an eye. If we picked a two-time unanimous All American and three time All Big Ten LB who was a tackling machine in college in Round 3, there would be people here turning cartwheels.
A lot of people are raving about the Saints' draft because they got two players projected in the Top 20 towards the end of the round. I guess those players aren't as good as we thought?
It depends on who you talk to of course but it seems like Mark Ingram went right where he was supposed to go. Late 1st round. The Early run on QBs screwed up the 1st round quite a bit. It also led to the Prince falling to the Giants in my opinion. But that's far different than talking about a 6th round pick. I don't doubt that many pundits had Jones ranked as high as a 3rd round pick. I also don't doubt that NO NFL team agreed. Otherwise he'd have been picked there. So I just think we need to temper expectations for this kid.
The Giants have drafted late round LBs before. Practically every year. And every year they seem to disappoint in one way or another. The only late round LB pick to show any promise was Adrian Tracy and he was finished in Preseason. Who knows what he comes back as. Like many fans I was holding out hope that the Giants would use an early pick on a guy that could step in from day 1 and start. The competition isn't exactly stiff at that position. As it stands I'd just hope that Jones can be a stellar participante on ST and that the Giants throw some money at a Free Agent LB, preferably not one who's 35 years old and coming off a blown out knee.
Three corners and three safeties get most of the playing time in the back seven.
GMO, I agree there's no way to know what we're going to get from Jones. We certainly can't count on him elevating the LB corps singlehandedly.
Is there a FA LB you have your eye on?
I hope JR & Co. sign the best LB FA who'll be a playmaker @ the WIL for us. Pickin's r a bit slim, but gotta believe there's a fit out there for us somewhere.
Names?
I'm a big fan of Tracy. Thinkin' he got jobbed a bit (so did he) by bein' IR'd so early last season. Elbow required surgery, but bein' so early, thought he had enough time to rehab it & return. I'm truly hopin' he can build on last season's flash & return where left off by claimin' the SAM as his own.
Quote from: Jaime on May 07, 2011, 03:24:52 PM
I hope JR & Co. sign the best LB FA who'll be a playmaker @ the WIL for us. Pickin's r a bit slim, but gotta believe there's a fit out there for us somewhere.
Names?
I'm a big fan of Tracy. Thinkin' he got jobbed a bit (so did he) by bein' IR'd so early last season. Elbow required surgery, but bein' so early, thought he had enough time to rehab it & return. I'm truly hopin' he can build on last season's flash & return where left off by claimin' the SAM as his own.
Here are some OLB free agents. Anyone know much about Manny Lawson?
http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011OLB.php (http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011OLB.php)
Here are some C free agents. Anyone know much about Lyle Sendlein?
http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011C.php (http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2011C.php)
Fun video including his combine performance.
Staring at 2:00 his combine workout
Marvin Austin - "Hard Work" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztIMbWsKkqo&feature=related#)
MP21, thanks for the skinny.
I've heard plenty re; Austin since we selected him. Really only care what he does goin' forward. Sure looks like he has the makings of a terror @ DT.
Coach him up & let him have @ it!
An incredible athlete for his size. I say give him the ball and make him a short yardage back. We'll call him the Freezer.
CA, thanks. Manny Lawson is a total freak. 6' - 5" 240 lbs. Combine #'s 4.43
23 Reps 39" Vert. Touted as a DE prospect out of N.C. State. Lawson hasn't put up much in the way of sacks in the Niners 3 - 4. Last three seasons he played all 16 games, av. 60 tackles & 3.5 sacks. Did have 5.5 sacks last year.
Great closin' speed as u would think. Does make plays, but is limited in 3 - 4. Reports indicate a better fit in our 4 - 3. Looks to be durable. Highest rated (four out of five stars) non-franchised FA OLB by Walter Football.
This is good stuff guys ..
I believe that Jones dropped in the Draft because he is a MLB with a WLB body. He had a difficult time shedding blocks and was often easily washed out of plays. So even though he was productive in college, that type of production may not translate into success at the NFL level because he is reputedly not strong at the point-of-attack. We will see ...
As to Jernigan - going to Troy certainly didn't stop Osi or DeMarcus Ware (as was stated earlier) and just because Moss was small and unsuccessful doesn't mean Jernigan is going to be unsuccessful (as was also stated earlier). How did being small affect DeSean Jackson?
Quote from: Jaime on May 10, 2011, 01:14:11 PM
CA, thanks. Manny Lawson is a total freak. 6' - 5" 240 lbs. Combine #'s 4.43
23 Reps 39" Vert. Touted as a DE prospect out of N.C. State. Lawson hasn't put up much in the way of sacks in the Niners 3 - 4. Last three seasons he played all 16 games, av. 60 tackles & 3.5 sacks. Did have 5.5 sacks last year.
Great closin' speed as u would think. Does make plays, but is limited in 3 - 4. Reports indicate a better fit in our 4 - 3. Looks to be durable. Highest rated (four out of five stars) non-franchised FA OLB by Walter Football.
Unlike some other DE/LB hybrids or converts, Lawson appears to do the little things right - he plays the run well, he plays in space well. His uncommon athleticism helps him a lot. Ironically, the only thing he doesn't apparently excel at on the pro level is what he was drafted for.
To me, he would play the role the team envisioned for Kiwi when they moved him to LB.
I don't see Lawson anywhere on the Giants' radar. After being a rushbacker in a 3/4 his entire career, he would have to learn a new position in the Sam. I think the Giants are done with conversion projects.
This is strange. I'm used to reading threads about the rookies' jersey numbers right now.