Big Blue Huddle

No longer the Indians

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/23/us/cleveland-major-league-baseball-name/index.html

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Farewell Louis Sockalexis.

Bill

 :boooo: - not a fan of the name

Whoever picked that name must have a room temperature iq. I get that they had to change it but good lord they couldn

Really, guys, could you think of a worse name?  The Guardians sounds like some sci-fi movie... or a trade name for a lousy baby-sitting service.  LOL  Bob

I suspect something that they thought phonetically resembled Indians.

Quote from: Bob In PA on July 23, 2021, 02:59:11 PM
Really, guys, could you think of a worse name?

Yes they already did, that's why they're changing it.

Quote from: madbadger on July 23, 2021, 02:56:54 PM
Whoever picked that name must have a room temperature iq. I get that they had to change it but good lord they couldn

Maybe I am really being naive here, but what was really wrong with "Indians' as a nickname? How is the word Indian derogatory?

I can understand Redskin, Redmen, et al, but names like Indians and Braves, to me, at least, represent power and are, in no way derogatory.

Quote from: LennG on July 23, 2021, 08:52:43 PM
Maybe I am really being naive here, but what was really wrong with "Indians' as a nickname? How is the word Indian derogatory?

I can understand Redskin, Redmen, et al, but names like Indians and Braves, to me, at least, represent power and are, in no way derogatory.

I don

Quote from: LennG on July 23, 2021, 08:52:43 PM
Maybe I am really being naive here, but what was really wrong with "Indians' as a nickname? How is the word Indian derogatory?

I can understand Redskin, Redmen, et al, but names like Indians and Braves, to me, at least, represent power and are, in no way derogatory.

I guess for the same reasons that the accepted term for this ethnic group switched from "Indians" to "Native Americans." Clearly the term "Indians" (in reference to Native Americans) is now considered at best passe, if not offensive. Of course that wasn't the case when this name for the baseball team was first decided on in the early 20th century, but times obviously change.

Quote from: LennG on July 23, 2021, 08:52:43 PM
Maybe I am really being naive here, but what was really wrong with "Indians' as a nickname? How is the word Indian derogatory?

I can understand Redskin, Redmen, et al, but names like Indians and Braves, to me, at least, represent power and are, in no way derogatory.

Len,

I suspect it has less to do with the term "Indians".   Rather it has more to do with the Chief Wahoo Logo

(https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/4132fe1/2147483647/strip/true/crop/500x530+0+0/resize/880x933!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fwksu%2Ffiles%2F201705%2Fchief_wahoo.jpg)


Of course, the term "Indians" is being phased out of our language much like the term "Oriental" has been phased out.   Neither term was accurate so they have been replaced with the more appropriate Native American and Asian.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 24, 2021, 08:04:52 AM
Len,

I suspect it has less to do with the term "Indians".   Rather it has more to do with the Chief Wahoo Logo

(https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/4132fe1/2147483647/strip/true/crop/500x530+0+0/resize/880x933!/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnpr-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2Flegacy%2Fsites%2Fwksu%2Ffiles%2F201705%2Fchief_wahoo.jpg)


Of course, the term "Indians" is being phased out of our language much like the term "Oriental" has been phased out.   Neither term was accurate so they have been replaced with the more appropriate Native American and Asian.

100% agree that the logo is offensive.

I know I'm old, but as Ed and I said, to me, certain terms about let's just say Indians, are an honorable word. But again, I still refer to myself as a Jew, who knows what the  correct wording for that is now.     /sarcasm/

Quote from: LennG on July 23, 2021, 08:52:43 PM
Maybe I am really being naive here, but what was really wrong with "Indians' as a nickname? How is the word Indian derogatory?

I can understand Redskin, Redmen, et al, but names like Indians and Braves, to me, at least, represent power and are, in no way derogatory.

Len, I consider you a friend and a good man whom I respect immensely. So please don't get mad or take this the wrong way as I say this with equal parts tongue-in-cheek but also with a salient point. If I'm the owner of the Cleveland franchise feeling that a name change might be in order based on the barometer of current society, and I'm soliciting opinions and advice, one of the last people I'd likely ask is a 70 year old Jewish man from Long Island.  ;)

Quote from: Sem on July 24, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Len, I consider you a friend and a good man whom I respect immensely. So please don't get mad or take this the wrong way as I say this with equal parts tongue-in-cheek but also with a salient point. If I'm the owner of the Cleveland franchise feeling that a name change might be in order based on the barometer of current society, and I'm soliciting opinions and advice, one of the last people I'd likely ask is a 70 year old Jewish man from Long Island.  ;)

Steve

Absolutely no offense taken. Even brought a smile to my face. I was just thinking out loud.

So when will The Yankees be changed as that is completely offensive to anyone living South of the Mason Dixon line? And I am serious about it. Is the Name Yankees offensive to a lot more people than Indians?

Again, I can see the name Redskin and things like that, but Indian.

And if I am the owner of the Indians (oops guardians) would I not be more inclined to please the many fans who like the name instead of the few who don't?

I was just at lunch with some guys.

One of them told the group that the name the Guardians may relate to a pair of statues located (or previously located) somewhere in Cleveland which are known as the Guardians. 

I have no idea, but I thought I'd pass it along.

Bob

I would have thought the Cleveland Rockers would have been the slam dunk

Bob

Explained
https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/07/23/cleveland-guardians-name-change-decision-explained

(https://i.postimg.cc/MHrT4ScX/guardian.png)

I like the Cleveland Klingons. True warriors and the helmet logo would be awesome. 

After Lenny posted the explanation of the statues already existing in Cleveland, I have to say that I agree that Guardians is a good name for the team.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 24, 2021, 03:07:17 PM
I would have thought the Cleveland Rockers would have been the slam dunk

Rich: I made that exact suggestion to my friends.  Stop stealing my ideas. LOL

Quote from: Bob In PA on July 24, 2021, 05:12:01 PM
Rich: I made that exact suggestion to my friends.  Stop stealing my ideas. LOL

I like the name. I can picture the mascot dressed like Keith Richards strutting an electric guitar.

I found this as to how the name Indians was originally chosen.

From Wiki:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210725/687b4b6e8862e19d0d4b313580008276.jpg)


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Ed,

Interestingly enough that story has been shown to be a myth, rather than a fact.

Here is a long and inciteful article that delves deeply into this topic


https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2014/03/18/the-cleveland-indians-louis-sockalexis-and-the-name/

One problem was the link to the picture of the cartoon run in the Cleveland Plains Dealer after the new name is broken.  I have found the picture elsewhere and here it is


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvp6GWBXEAAdX8_?format=png&name=900x900)

(null)
I suspected it was but it is in the official media guide. So the Organization is perpetrating the myth.


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