I have been a staunch critic but an even bigger cheerleader and supporter. This thread is meant to highlight his professionalism, effort and humility.
I sincerely appreciate the way this young man conducts himself. Todays postgame comments only cemented that for me. I hope he is ok. I will continue to root like crazy for him. I believe we are going to find out for certain in the next few weeks where his career will be headed but for tonight I simply wish to illustrate a sincerity and appreciation that many NY Football Giants also likely feel.
Tough kid. A good kid. A good Giant.
Lastly, let's remember what the great Yogi Berra always said.
Great kid..great professional...not saying he's a world-beater...but the team is failing him miserably...
Agreed. If anyone was ever justified in putting his teammates, coaches and organization on blast it's Jones. He is a class act even if he isn't the guy at the position.
Quote from: madbadger on October 08, 2023, 05:46:13 PMAgreed. If anyone was ever justified in putting his teammates, coaches and organization on blast it's Jones. He is a class act even if he isn't the guy at the position.
Jones hasn't been good enough to blast anyone. But even if he was that's not him. No one ever questioned his professionalism and toughness but that is only going to take a player so far in the NFL.
The bottom line for me is the Giants being a winning team. The playoff win not withstanding we have been dealing with mostly mediocrity for way too long now. One of the worst records in football over those years.
I'm over the this player is a good guy and this player is what our culture is about. We cleared out the OBJs of the world and what did it get us? I'm not saying I want criminals in here but can we start worrying about getting winning players?
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 08, 2023, 06:06:28 PMJones hasn't been good enough to blast anyone. But even if he was that's not him. No one ever questioned his professionalism and toughness but that is only going to take a player so far in the NFL.
The man has been physically brutalized because of other men's ineptitude. Never said he was a good player but when you get beat pillar to post every weekend you have a right to say something IMHO.
Quote from: madbadger on October 08, 2023, 06:32:51 PMThe man has been physically brutalized because of other men's ineptitude. Never said he was a good player but when you get beat pillar to post every weekend you have a right to say something IMHO.
Some of it is due to his own ineptitude
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 08, 2023, 06:43:05 PMSome of it is due to his own ineptitude
Don't you think you are driving the same point into the ground enough?
Quote from: TDToomer on October 08, 2023, 07:07:46 PMDon't you think you are driving the same point into the ground enough?
No different than others with the offensive line receivers play calling etc
Please besides the age difference what really is the difference between Jones and Tyrod Taylor in terms of competent QB play?
Quote from: katkavage on October 08, 2023, 09:19:04 PMPlease besides the age difference what really is the difference between Jones and Tyrod Taylor in terms of competent QB play?
Ok I'll bite.
Tyrod looks more relaxed when under duress. Less panicky and fast feet. If he gets a full game next week perhaps it will manifest into something productive. On the very least he tries to throw downfield
Quote from: katkavage on October 08, 2023, 09:19:04 PMPlease besides the age difference what really is the difference between Jones and Tyrod Taylor in terms of competent QB play?
Just the paycheck
Quote from: Trench on October 08, 2023, 09:44:27 PMOk I'll bite.
Tyrod looks more relaxed when under duress. Less panicky and fast feet. If he gets a full game next week perhaps it will manifest into something productive. On the very least he tries to throw downfield
I'd love for nothing more than for Tyrod to get a full game next week, so he can look like an absolute disaster behind this JV OL.
Reality is, the rational fanbase are able to acknowledge that DJ has not played well while also pointing out that absolutely no one could perform well behind this terrible OL.
And those with a DJ bias want to put the blame solely on him. Only way to solve this is to give Tyrod the same chance. Granted, even if it happens the DJ haters will just move the goalposts again, but it will be validating all the same.
Quote from: Trench on October 08, 2023, 09:44:27 PMOk I'll bite.
Tyrod looks more relaxed when under duress. Less panicky and fast feet. If he gets a full game next week perhaps it will manifest into something productive. On the very least he tries to throw downfield
The more likely outcome is that he is continuously crushed behind this trash OL and, thus, suddenly is "more panicky" with "fast feet".
Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 08, 2023, 09:59:51 PMI'd love for nothing more than for Tyrod to get a full game next week, so he can look like an absolute disaster behind this JV OL.
Reality is, the rationale fanbase are able to acknowledge that DJ has not played well while also posting out that absolutely no one could perform well behind this terrible OL.
And those with a DJ bias want to put the blame solely on him. Only way to solve this is to give Tyrod the same xxxx. Granted, even if it happens the DJ haters will just move the goalposts again, but it will be validating all the same.
Problem here is Tyrod is a journeyman with a journeyman's contract. Is it considered moving the goalposts if folks want a true franchise QB rather than a Tyrod type making 40 million? Feels like we're back to arguing between Danny Kanell and Kent Graham.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on October 08, 2023, 10:02:14 PMThe more likely outcome is that he is continuously crushed behind this trash OL and, thus, suddenly is "more panicky" with "fast feet".
We'll see
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 08, 2023, 10:19:00 PMProblem here is Tyrod is a journeyman with a journeyman's contract. Is it considered moving the goalposts if folks want a true franchise QB rather than a Tyrod type making 40 million? Feels like we're back to arguing between Danny Kanell and Kent Graham.
I agree with all this. The Giants are 1-4 with Jones. They would be 1-4 with TT as well. It's all bad, sadly. I'm not arguing. I'm just saying neither most likely can deliver the goods.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on October 08, 2023, 10:19:00 PMProblem here is Tyrod is a journeyman with a journeyman's contract. Is it considered moving the goalposts if folks want a true franchise QB rather than a Tyrod type making 40 million? Feels like we're back to arguing between Danny Kanell and Kent Graham.
That's was the scary part of yesterday is that to me the offense looked no worse nor better with Taylor than it has with Jones outside of 2 quarters this season. And again that doesn't absolve the offensive line but there are still weapons in the passing game that are not being utilized that is not on the offensive line.
We have witnessed KT and Neal meltdown over some booing. We have seen Leo also calling out the fans booing. Yet no Giant in the many decades I have been a fan has been treated as badly by fans, the media, and even his fellow players in the NFL. Yet this man has been all class, and not once said a bad word towards them, despite being questioned about it repeatedly. We may be spoiled because the Giants have had two of the classiest QBs in NFL history in Phil Simms and Eli Manning. Still, the sort of class and character Daniel Jones has repeatedly demonstrated is rather rare.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 09:31:20 AMWe have witnessed KT and Neal meltdown over some booing. We have seen Leo also calling out the fans booing. Yet no Giant in the many decades I have been a fan has been treated as badly by fans, the media, and even his fellow players in the NFL. Yet this man has been all class, and not once said a bad word towards them, despite being questioned about it repeatedly. We may be spoiled because the Giants have had two of the classiest QBs in NFL history in Phil Simms and Eli Manning. Still, the sort of class and character Daniel Jones has repeatedly demonstrated is rather rare.
What exactly has Jones done on the field production and performance wise that has earned him the benefit of the doubt? The Giants are the only team that would have handed their QB a big money extension after producing so little in his first four seasons despite spending as much draft capital into propping him up as the Giants have. Any other team in the league would have moved on from Jones after last season.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:42:08 AMAny other team in the league would have moved on from Jones after last season.
Did you have facts to support this claim?
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 09:48:01 AMDid you have facts to support this claim?
See the Bears with Mitchell Trubisky.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:50:17 AMSee the Bears with Mitchell Trubisky.
That isn't a fact nor does it properly support your claim. The fact that you make things up to bash Daniel Jones is a good illustration of the abuse Jones receives from fans.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 09:54:32 AMThat isn't a fact nor does it properly support your claim. The fact that you make things up to bash Daniel Jones is a good illustration of the abuse Jones receives from fans.
Actually it does when you take a look at Trubisky's numbers his first four seasons in Chicago and compare them to Jones's. Very similar. Only difference is the Bears moved on from Trubisky and the Giants rewarded Jones.
As far as the personal shot at me making things up I am taking that as your frustration of being wrong on Jones.
Yes, Daniel Jones has been all class. That's to his credit as a man. But what does that have to do with his playing ability? What does that have to do with results? All that derision that has been heaped on him by boorish fans and haters in the media is rough. The lack of an offensive line and great receivers (but an all world running back at times) made it hard to succeed. All these negative factors, yet Daniel Jones has made some serious money. I give him much credit for keeping his mouth shut while cashing his paycheck.
Dave Brown took it way worse from the fans. Jones has the media on his side. Brown never did. Brown also had opposing players mock his play, Had Mike Ditka crap on him on TV (and got revenge beating the Saints after je returned to the sidelines) and fans booing him endlessly calling him Dave Clown.
Quote from: TDToomer on October 09, 2023, 10:42:41 AMDave Brown took it way worse from the fans. Jones has the media on his side. Brown never did. Brown also had opposing players mock his play, Had Mike Ditka crap on him on TV (and got revenge beating the Saints after je returned to the sidelines) and fans booing him endlessly calling him Dave Clown.
He did get it worse. Back then the media never deflected to the team around him it was always about his performance. So this idea that Jones has had it worse than any player in the history of the franchise is just flat out false.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:50:17 AMSee the Bears with Mitchell Trubisky.
Good example. The Bears made a good decision to move on. Unfortunately there decisions afterwards haven't panned out either.
Quote from: TDToomer on October 09, 2023, 10:42:41 AMDave Brown took it way worse from the fans. Jones has the media on his side. Brown never did. Brown also had opposing players mock his play, Had Mike Ditka crap on him on TV (and got revenge beating the Saints after je returned to the sidelines) and fans booing him endlessly calling him Dave Clown.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 10:53:11 AMHe did get it worse. Back then the media never deflected to the team around him it was always about his performance. So this idea that Jones has had it worse than any player in the history of the franchise is just flat out false.
Dave Brown played before message boards and social media. There was barely any activity on the internet in those early development days. So how were you guys able to compare? I mean back then, fans had access to the evening news, ESPN, and your local paper. Talk with other fans was limited to fans who you happen to talk football with.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 12:54:52 PMDave Brown played before message boards and social media. There was barely any activity on the internet in those early development days. So how were you guys able to compare? I mean back then, fans had access to the evening news, ESPN, and your local paper. Talk with other fans was limited to fans who you happen to talk football with.
Let's not ignore Sports talk radio existing then and the beating Brown took there in addition to the newspapers which never had the bloggers and others defending Brown. In fact no one did.
With the mention of Dave Brown anywhere, here, print, on line, two guys talking on a corner in Serbia, Dan Reeves(RIP) is spinning in his grave. For his folly George Young(RIP) now for eternity has to hear Reeves ask him what the f#$k were you thinking. From now on there should be a Giant organization rule that no scout should check out a Duke QB. Akin to the way Talus IV was regarded on the original Star Trek.
I know one thing for sure. DJ will not probably be a top 5 QB even with a good OL but no QB (Patrick Mahommes, Caleb Williams) will be a top 5 QB behind that Giants OL.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:57:20 AMActually it does when you take a look at Trubisky's numbers his first four seasons in Chicago and compare them to Jones's. Very similar. Only difference is the Bears moved on from Trubisky and the Giants rewarded Jones.
As far as the personal shot at me making things up I am taking that as your frustration of being wrong on Jones.
That's how I see it. Paying this amount of money to a weak passer is absurd. It's not a personal attack, I said last spring they would regret and here we are. I have no personal animosity towards Jones, I just don't want to watch him in a Giants uniform anymore. The way some people have supported him borders on delusional.
Tyrod was running for his life too, the line is horrendous, but that doesn't make Jones the answer. I liked Tyrod in Buffalo and think people might be surprised with how the offense looks in coming weeks.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 01:00:49 PMLet's not ignore Sports talk radio existing then and the beating Brown took there in addition to the newspapers which never had the bloggers and others defending Brown. In fact no one did.
Yep and AOL had a giants forum before message boards like this one existed.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 10:53:11 AMHe did get it worse. Back then the media never deflected to the team around him it was always about his performance. So this idea that Jones has had it worse than any player in the history of the franchise is just flat out false.
Brown was in a much better situation and simply could not produce.First of all, Brown started on bench for 2 seasons behind Hos and then Simms.Brown had some very good Mike Nolan defenses and also benefited from an much better running game. Brown was a deer in headlights and the problem with the offense. Back then even the defensive players had turned on Brown and knew he was the problem.1992 Bench Defense #26 Running Game #1 1993 Bench Defense #1 Running game # 101994 Starter Defense # 8 Running Game #101995 Starter Defense #16 Running Game #131996 Starter Defense #10 Running game # 241997 Benched for Kennel Defense # 4 Running game # 7
Quote from: babywhales on October 09, 2023, 03:38:29 PMBrown was in a much better situation and simply could not produce.
First of all, Brown started on bench for 2 seasons behind Hos and then Simms.
Brown had some very good Mike Nolan defenses and also benefited from an much better running game.
Brown was a deer in headlights and the problem with the offense.
Back then even the defensive players had turned on Brown and knew he was the problem.
1992 Bench Defense #26 Running Game #1
1993 Bench Defense #1 Running game # 10
1994 Starter Defense # 8 Running Game #10
1995 Starter Defense #16 Running Game #13
1996 Starter Defense #10 Running game # 24
1997 Benched for Kennel Defense # 4 Running game # 7
The argument wasn't who was better or worse as a player. It's been clear and still clear Jones is a better player than Brown ever was. The argument and topic is which QB took more heat and the answer should be Brown for those of us who were around for both.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 08, 2023, 09:59:51 PMI'd love for nothing more than for Tyrod to get a full game next week, so he can look like an absolute disaster behind this JV OL.
Reality is, the rational fanbase are able to acknowledge that DJ has not played well while also pointing out that absolutely no one could perform well behind this terrible OL.
And those with a DJ bias want to put the blame solely on him. Only way to solve this is to give Tyrod the same chance. Granted, even if it happens the DJ haters will just move the goalposts again, but it will be validating all the same.
The goal posts have never been moved, everyone that is a so called DJ hater thinks he can be a top 10-18 QB any given Sunday and have said that at nausem.
I understand the oline isn't good right now but neither is Jones. Jones is on his fifth year and has never thrown for 3,500 yards or 25 Tds. Just hear that out, there are some truly horrible Qbs that have produced more than Jones to this point.
He has never produced, and can't win a modern football game were teams score 25-30 every game now. CJ Stroud is doing more with arguably less talent and there's absolutely no excuse for that.
Tyrod makes 1/8th of Jones yearly salary and they basically had the same stats the only difference is Jones had 48 minutes to Tyrods 12 minutes.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 03:40:31 PMThe argument wasn't who was better or worse as a player. It's been clear and still clear Jones is a better player than Brown ever was. The argument and topic is which QB took more heat and the answer should be Brown for those of us who were around for both.
I know, I was rushing and actually posted in wrong thread, my point that was unclear was brown deserved more heat.
The team was good and just needed him to step up and not be horrible.
CJ stroud has worked with less?
There's absolutely no basis for this. I'll take Woods, Collins, and Dell over what we call WRs. Hodgins has been basically benched. Campbell has been benched. Slayton is in the running for the worst number 1 in all of football. So what does Stroud have less than jones? I can easily argue that Schultz is a better all around TE than Waller too.
Stroud hasn't been sacked in 3 games. So I'm pretty sure his OL is much, much better.
There's not one team who wants our OL without Thomas and our skilled players without Barkley.
None, zilch, nada.
Let's not forget Phil Simms was booed mercilessly for his first few years. Not until the Giants showed signs of life and became a legit contender, did the fans let up, and really not until Phil hoisted that Lombardi did the fans and media let up on him.
Eli, on the other hand, was golden. Even when he sucked, he 'Gosh--gee, and Oh Myed it" and everyone forgave him for some horrendous play.
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 04:18:39 PMCJ stroud has worked with less?
There's absolutely no basis for this. I'll take Woods, Collins, and Dell over what we call WRs. Hodgins has been basically benched. Campbell has been benched. Slayton is in the running for the worst number 1 in all of football. So what does Stroud have less than jones? I can easily argue that Schultz is a better all around TE than Waller too.
Stroud hasn't been sacked in 3 games. So I'm pretty sure his OL is much, much better.
There's not one team who wants our OL without Thomas and our skilled players without Barkley.
None, zilch, nada.
=))
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 12:54:52 PMDave Brown played before message boards and social media. There was barely any activity on the internet in those early development days. So how were you guys able to compare? I mean back then, fans had access to the evening news, ESPN, and your local paper. Talk with other fans was limited to fans who you happen to talk football with.
For crying out loud, Rich, Dave Brown was sat down for Tommy F'in Maddox in 1995!!!!! Forget Mike Ditka, that insult alone, by his own head coach, destroyed the entire team and its credibility from George Young all the way down to the water boy!!! It was one of the most disgraceful acts by a head coach in Giants' history and, in spite of that, I still like Dan Reeves the man.
That Dave Brown was able to talk about his experience with the Giants, on the Rich Eisen show, without saying a single negative comment about anyone, showed me a higher level of class than I've ever seen from a former Giant QB who was dealt the shaft during hard times.
If the media coverage we have today existed in 1995, George Young would have been captured and burned at the stake and the old man swinging from a chandelier by his neck. With the image of Simms getting released still fresh in our recesses, Phil would have been canonized a saint and a campaign for The Tuna returning to the Giants would have started sooner and I'd imagine he'd be returning with Belichick to start the 1997 season. Try that scenario in your head and see how Giant history plays out.
Peace!
Quote from: True Blue on October 09, 2023, 04:27:28 PM=))
You would take hodgins, Slayton, and Campbell over those 3? Now that's reallllly funny.
A journeyman WR, a guy who couldn't make the bills to 6 WRs, and Darius Slayton who couldn't get a decent contract from anyone.
Those guys are studs we have lol
Quote from: True Blue on October 09, 2023, 04:27:28 PM=))
Not sure why this is funny. I'd take Nico Collins over any of our WRs. And it's not even close. Who from the Giants is better?
And Tank Dell - a 3rd round rookie - has more yards than our 2 starters (Hodgins and Slayton) combined and more TDs than every WR on our roster combined.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 09, 2023, 04:54:38 PMNot sure why this is funny. I'd take Nico Collins over any of our WRs. And it's not even close. Who from the Giants is better?
And Tank Dell - a 3rd round rookie - has more yards than our 2 starters (Hodgins and Slayton) combined and more TDs than every WR on our roster combined.
Cause they are at least competent players. But I bet we hear - it's Jones fault that ours can't make plays.
The offense looked GOOD for ONE drive...the opening drive against Dallas when everyone was healthy...
Andrew Thomas got injured during that blocked FG, right?
I just HOPE (like our GM and HC irresponsibly hoped and obviously had no Plan B) our OL and Jones are ALL healthy by Week 7...even if we're 1-5...to see what we've got at QB...
And maybe our HC & company have gotten their act together by then as well
We NEED to be able to properly evaluate Daniel Jones..which has been impossible THIS year.
If you don't know what Jones is after 60 games then I'm not sure another 10 are really going to do anything.
Quote from: HondurasGiants on October 09, 2023, 05:31:24 PMThe offense looked GOOD for ONE drive...the opening drive against Dallas when everyone was healthy...
Andrew Thomas got injured during that blocked FG, right?
I just HOPE (like our GM and HC irresponsibly hoped and obviously had no Plan B) our OL and Jones are ALL healthy by Week 7...even if we're 1-5...to see what we've got at QB...
And maybe our HC & company have gotten their act together by then as well
We NEED to be able to properly evaluate Daniel Jones..which has been impossible THIS year.
In year 7? 8? My evaluation is that he is in the 12-18 range and that's being kind.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 05:52:28 PMIf you don't know what Jones is after 60 games then I'm not sure another 10 are really going to do anything.
Like it or not...our management evaluated enough to give him a $40M per year contract (albeit with a 2-year out).
We NEED to evaluate him as our franchise QB...with a functional OL and respectable weapons.
IMO 10 games will help in the process.
Quote from: katkavage on October 09, 2023, 05:56:54 PMIn year 7? 8? My evaluation is that he is in the 12-18 range and that's being kind.
These years...5 and 6...and I hope he is in the 10-15 range...
Quote from: HondurasGiants on October 09, 2023, 06:11:17 PMLike it or not...our management evaluated enough to give him a $40M per year contract (albeit with a 2-year out).
We NEED to evaluate him as our franchise QB...with a functional OL and respectable weapons.
IMO 10 games will help in the process.
Question wouldn't that evaluation of him as the franchise QB taken place prior to handing him that contract?
Quote from: HondurasGiants on October 09, 2023, 06:11:17 PMLike it or not...our management evaluated enough to give him a $40M per year contract (albeit with a 2-year out).
We NEED to evaluate him as our franchise QB...with a functional OL and respectable weapons.
IMO 10 games will help in the process.
How many QBs in the league have those standards? Most have to make do with what they have and are evaluated on how they perform with what they do have. It's like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless Jones has these 'perfect' conditions, he cannot be evaluated?
Not every situation is great but a good QB will rise above the fray and put his team on his back and perform. I am just sick and tired of the same old, same old. Last year it was WRs and now it's OL. Next year when we get rid of Barkley it will be no running game. Enough is enough. A good QB will overcome many 'bad' things, but Jones simply cannot. Everything has to be perfect in order for him to be evaluated. Nonsense.
Quote from: HondurasGiants on October 09, 2023, 05:31:24 PMThe offense looked GOOD for ONE drive...the opening drive against Dallas when everyone was healthy...
Andrew Thomas got injured during that blocked FG, right?
I just HOPE (like our GM and HC irresponsibly hoped and obviously had no Plan B) our OL and Jones are ALL healthy by Week 7...even if we're 1-5...to see what we've got at QB...
And maybe our HC & company have gotten their act together by then as well
We NEED to be able to properly evaluate Daniel Jones..which has been impossible THIS year.
You make a fair point.
Quote from: LennG on October 09, 2023, 06:36:54 PMHow many QBs in the league have those standards? Most have to make do with what they have and are evaluated on how they perform with what they do have. It's like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless Jones has these 'perfect' conditions, he cannot be evaluated?
Not every situation is great but a good QB will rise above the fray and put his team on his back and perform. I am just sick and tired of the same old, same old. Last year it was WRs and now it's OL. Next year when we get rid of Barkley it will be no running game. Enough is enough. A good QB will overcome many 'bad' things, but Jones simply cannot. Everything has to be perfect in order for him to be evaluated. Nonsense.
Who's asking for perfect?
Can we at least see league average first?
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 06:42:34 PMWho's asking for perfect?
Can we at least see league average first?
No one dies, but if you want to skew things against Daniel Jones you make that false claim.
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 06:42:34 PMWho's asking for perfect?
Can we at least see league average first?
Average wouldn't be good enough for Daniel Jones. He needs perfect anything less than it's unfair to him.
Quote from: LennG on October 09, 2023, 06:36:54 PMHow many QBs in the league have those standards? Most have to make do with what they have and are evaluated on how they perform with what they do have. It's like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless Jones has these 'perfect' conditions, he cannot be evaluated?
Not every situation is great but a good QB will rise above the fray and put his team on his back and perform. I am just sick and tired of the same old, same old. Last year it was WRs and now it's OL. Next year when we get rid of Barkley it will be no running game. Enough is enough. A good QB will overcome many 'bad' things, but Jones simply cannot. Everything has to be perfect in order for him to be evaluated. Nonsense.
Just to be clear...I used the words functional and respectable weapons...not perfect.
He was evaluated and given a contract.
Now he has 2 years to prove them right (or wrong).
Here'a to hoping we can do that (with a functional OL) and he thrives (or fails)...instead of having to watch this embarrassment of an offense on national TV.
https://x.com/ralphvacchiano/status/1711549470893097066?s=46 (https://x.com/ralphvacchiano/status/1711549470893097066?s=46)
Agree or not...some of us see it this way
Go Giants!
Quote from: katkavage on October 09, 2023, 10:04:13 AMYes, Daniel Jones has been all class. That's to his credit as a man. But what does that have to do with his playing ability? What does that have to do with results? All that derision that has been heaped on him by boorish fans and haters in the media is rough. The lack of an offensive line and great receivers (but an all world running back at times) made it hard to succeed. All these negative factors, yet Daniel Jones has made some serious money. I give him much credit for keeping his mouth shut while cashing his paycheck.
I wish I could like this multiple times.
Character is great. Being a model team player is wonderful. Playing competitive, winning football is all that matters.
I'd rather Jones be an obnoxious a-hole if he was a consistently 10-12 game winner.
Quote from: HondurasGiants on October 09, 2023, 06:11:17 PMLike it or not...our management evaluated enough to give him a $40M per year contract (albeit with a 2-year out).
We NEED to evaluate him as our franchise QB...with a functional OL and respectable weapons.
IMO 10 games will help in the process.
If they (management) need more than 5 seasons to evaluate a player, they are in the wrong damn business. And I need another team to root for.
I don't frequent other message boards but I'm curious if other fan sites have this much bickering over their players.
We're all fans of the same team yet the infighting is off the charts. I cram to understand. :ok:
Quote from: T200 on October 09, 2023, 10:17:27 PMI don't frequent other message boards but I'm curious if other fan sites have this much bickering over their players.
We're all fans of the same team yet the infighting is off the charts. I cram to understand. :ok:
Good point. My opinion and I could be wrong is some people here have a pretty thin skin and yearn to be proven right. I enjoy posts where people admit they were incorrect on a topic and subsequently own it. Those are the posters I tend to read more of for some reason. I believe there is a balance we can strike. But all this could simply be a result of a passionate fan base who invest a lot of time. Either way is ok as long as we remain courteous. Problem is sometimes a post is read in a different way than it was intended at the time it was written.
Quote from: T200 on October 09, 2023, 10:17:27 PMI don't frequent other message boards but I'm curious if other fan sites have this much bickering over their players.
We're all fans of the same team yet the infighting is off the charts. I cram to understand. :ok:
Omg yes
Just seeing the various Giants social media threads it's as bad if not worse
People are :
Hypersensitive
Desire to be first to declare something
Desire to be correct
Desire to label others as pro or anti
Too invested in their opinion proving correct
Bad seasons always lead to this
You wait Tim, If giants draft a QB wait until he sits his first year behind jones and wait for the fighting that occurs then
Quote from: Trench on October 09, 2023, 11:09:38 PMGood point. My opinion and I could be wrong is some people here have a pretty thin skin and yearn to be proven right. I enjoy posts where people admit they were incorrect on a topic and subsequently own it. Those are the posters I tend to read more of for some reason. I believe there is a balance we can strike. But all this could simply be a result of a passionate fan base who invest a lot of time. Either way is ok as long as we remain courteous. Problem is sometimes a post is read in a different way than it was intended at the time it was written.
Well said, I agree
Quote from: babywhales on October 10, 2023, 09:06:37 AMOmg yes
Just seeing the various Giants social media threads it's as bad if not worse
People are :
Hypersensitive
Desire to be first to declare something
Desire to be correct
Desire to label others as pro or anti
Too invested in their opinion proving correct
Bad seasons always lead to this
You wait Tim, If giants draft a QB wait until he sits his first year behind jones and wait for the fighting that occurs then
:surrender: :surrender: :surrender:
Quote from: babywhales on October 10, 2023, 09:06:37 AMOmg yes
Just seeing the various Giants social media threads it's as bad if not worse
People are :
Hypersensitive
Desire to be first to declare something
Desire to be correct
Desire to label others as pro or anti
Too invested in their opinion proving correct
Bad seasons always lead to this
You wait Tim, If giants draft a QB wait until he sits his first year behind jones and wait for the fighting that occurs then
I have a feeling that those who have defended Jones and believe in him will be the ones who will be quick to get on that QB they draft if he doesn't hit the ground running. You also will have others that have been critical of Jones that will be overly patient and defend the new guy. It seems to be how the majority of fans regardless of the sport or team behave. It's the rather be right than the team win attitude.
Quote from: T200 on October 09, 2023, 10:17:27 PMI don't frequent other message boards but I'm curious if other fan sites have this much bickering over their players.
We're all fans of the same team yet the infighting is off the charts. I cram to understand. :ok:
I see other message boards and social media. Jones is a controversial topic, but no forum or social media platform has as much and such intense and repetitive criticism of the Giants starting QB, as the Big Blue Huddle. Perhaps the strongest criticism for the team's starting QB is reserved for gameday threads which mostly just blaming Jones for the team's shortcomings.
Quote from: T200 on October 09, 2023, 10:17:27 PMI don't frequent other message boards but I'm curious if other fan sites have this much bickering over their players.
We're all fans of the same team yet the infighting is off the charts. I cram to understand. :ok:
There's just as much bickering on Social Media as there is here over Jones. It is actually more tame here than it is on Social Media. But lets not ruin the narrative that is desired here that this board has the harshest Jones critics.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 10, 2023, 09:28:24 AMI see other message boards and social media. Jones is a controversial topic, but no forum or social media platform has as much and such intense and repetitive criticism of the Giants starting QB, as the Big Blue Huddle. Perhaps the strongest criticism for the team's starting QB is reserved for gameday threads which mostly just blaming Jones for the team's shortcomings.
Intellectual dishonesty.
I'm generally in the game day threads. I can attest that that isn't true. Each and every player that messes up in a game is called out. It isn't just Jones.
Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 09:35:28 AMIntellectual dishonesty.
I'm generally in the game day threads. I can attest that that isn't true. Each and every player that messes up in a game is called out. It isn't just Jones.
Tim,
I must be on the wrong message board because that's not what I have seen on our game day thread. Things are so bad on those threads that they have literally driven the owner of the forum off his own platform.
Nor am I the only poster complaining about all the severe criticism of Daniel Jones; there are many posters who share that view (there have even been posts calling out what I am talking about). One poster was so disgusted by the constant criticism of Jones in the last game thread they posted sarcastically, "Jones fault," which was immediately reported by one frequent Jones critics.
So you have many people all complaining (I have shared some of the complaints I have received via PMs on the moderation board) about the excessive and repetitive criticism of Daniel Jones. So, who is the one really being "intellectually dishonest"? You or me?
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 10, 2023, 09:44:21 AMTim,
I must be on the wrong message board because that's not what I have seen on our game day thread. Things are so bad on those threads that they have literally driven the owner of the forum off his own platform.
Nor am I the only poster complaining about all the severe criticism of Daniel Jones; there are many posters who share that view (there have even been posts calling out what I am talking about). One poster was so disgusted by the constant criticism of Jones in the last game thread they posted sarcastically, "Jones fault," which was immediately reported by one frequent Jones critics.
So you have many people all complaining (I have shared some of the complaints I have received via PMs on the moderation board) about the excessive and repetitive criticism of Daniel Jones. So, who is the one really being "intellectually dishonest"? You or me?
I bolded your statement that I responded to. You said the game day threads are "mostly just blaming Jones..." That is the dishonest part.
Yes, Rich, you have shared that you've received multiple PMs from different posters regarding the CONSTANT criticism of Jones. But as I stated, I agree that it is incessant. Your calling it "severe" does not make it so.
The game threads are a wreck. My goal was not to post in it cause I knew the game would be ugly. Mighty isn't far off. Jones gets the blame from about 80-85% of the posts in it.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 09:56:51 AMThe game threads are a wreck. My goal was not to post in it cause I knew the game would be ugly. Mighty isn't far off. Jones gets the blame from about 80-85% of the posts in it.
@T200
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 09:56:51 AMThe game threads are a wreck. My goal was not to post in it cause I knew the game would be ugly. Mighty isn't far off. Jones gets the blame from about 80-85% of the posts in it.
Offensive line gets just as many posts from the same individuals in the game threads. Yet people aren't complaining about those individuals being harsh critics. There is a sensitivity level when it comes to Daniel Jones that there isn't with other players and other units.
I think I first joined the game thread when Taylor got in. His first pass was like a 6 yard pass and there were a handful of posters who were like "the offense already looks better, Taylor is more decisive, I love what I'm seeing from Taylor, etc"
At the end of the game - they used garbage time stats as evidence that Jones was the problem. I Ben the announcers said that most of the plays were against the backup DL and vanilla defenses.
I don't fault posters for not wanting Jones and are ready to move on. That's an absolute fair and supported stance. What is aggravating is if someone brings up the OL or WRs - the same posters chime in and fault jones by saying the same thing over and over again.
No need to @me, Rich. I'm reading the threads :P :ok:
I wasn't in the Dolphins game day thread. However, I just went through the first 100 posts. I counted 40 "negative" comments. Out of the "negative" comments I saw in the first 100, 17 were about Jones and the other 23 were primarily about the offense/offensive line.
That's not 80-85%. That's not even half, definitely not a majority.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 10:15:54 AMOffensive line gets just as many posts from the same individuals in the game threads. Yet people aren't complaining about those individuals being harsh critics. There is a sensitivity level when it comes to Daniel Jones that there isn't with other players and other units.
Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 10:18:30 AMNo need to @me, Rich. I'm reading the threads :P :ok:
I wasn't in the Dolphins game day thread. However, I just went through the first 100 posts. I counted 40 "negative" comments. Out of the "negative" comments I saw in the first 100, 17 were about Jones and the other 23 were primarily about the offense/offensive line.
That's not 80-85%. That's not even half, definitely not a majority.
Just the facts Jack!
Well played Sir
Should others start sending PMs about the constant criticism of the OL, WRs, Coaching, and Defense? It is all hearsay, shouldn't be OK to criticize all but one player, if it truly is a team sport, he should be just as subjected to it as other players, coaches, decision makers and positional groups. One can just as easily argue that the OL and WR criticisms are just as constant or "severe", if not moreso
@JT39 contrary to his post above was also highly active in this weeks game thread going back and forth with others with criticism about how Waller and the OL are no good, page 4 of his post history is all dolphins game thread. and there were more posts than that from him too. So I am unsure how he can claim wanting to avoid it, and contributing to what he calls a "wreck"
Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 10:18:30 AMNo need to @me, Rich. I'm reading the threads :P :ok:
I wasn't in the Dolphins game day thread. However, I just went through the first 100 posts. I counted 40 "negative" comments. Out of the "negative" comments I saw in the first 100, 17 were about Jones and the other 23 were primarily about the offense/offensive line.
That's not 80-85%. That's not even half, definitely not a majority.
I have a lot of ignored posters from when I joined the thread. Those are the only ones who consistently bash Jones. One page had two comments that weren't from them.
If you don't think there's a contingent here who's main goal is to bash Jones then we will agree to disagree.
I love this everytime I see it, thank you for the morning laugh lol
Timeless meltdown by TO.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 10:27:32 AMI have a lot of ignored posters from when I joined the thread. Those are the only ones who consistently bash Jones. One page had two comments that weren't from them.
If you don't think there's a contingent here who's main goal is to bash Jones then we will agree to disagree.
If they are ignored, how do you know what they are saying, and how do you know what it relates to?
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 10:27:32 AMI have a lot of ignored posters from when I joined the thread. Those are the only ones who consistently bash Jones. One page had two comments that weren't from them.
If you don't think there's a contingent here who's main goal is to bash Jones then we will agree to disagree.
My disagreement with your and Rich's assertion is regarding the "bashing/severe criticism".
Quote from: T200 on October 10, 2023, 10:32:57 AMMy disagreement with your and Rich's assertion is regarding the "bashing/severe criticism".
It's just game threads either. There were a few threads talking about other units where the same people came in and instantly made it about Jones. It's almost like we can't talk about other position without incorporating Jones some way.
I started a thread about the OL shuffling all preseason and all it took was the 6th post for a poster to say Jones has regressed. And then it just went downward from there.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 10:27:32 AMI have a lot of ignored posters from when I joined the thread. Those are the only ones who consistently bash Jones. One page had two comments that weren't from them.
If you don't think there's a contingent here who's main goal is to bash Jones then we will agree to disagree.
If this is true so is the contingent here whose main goal is to bash the Offensive line and other offensive players who are not the QB.
Let's be real here we all have our own personal biases that we lean towards in these discussions.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 09:56:51 AMThe game threads are a wreck. My goal was not to post in it cause I knew the game would be ugly. Mighty isn't far off. Jones gets the blame from about 80-85% of the posts in it.
And when Jones does something well in the game thread it is IMMEDIATELY pointed out and praised. Especially from those who are perceived to be against Jones. On a personal note I'm on record as saying I don't believe he is elite but I am rooting like crazy for him to succeed and to have to eat crow happily. Unfortunately it hasn't happened YET. And I still want this guy to be our franchise QB. But I'm an informed and passionate 2nd generation Giants fan with high expectations. When our guys stink then I will say it. When they do well I will say that too.
I see nothing wrong with this on a message board.
Quote from: JT39 on October 10, 2023, 10:37:29 AMIt's just game threads either. There were a few threads talking about other units where the same people came in and instantly made it about Jones. It's almost like we can't talk about other position without incorporating Jones some way.
I started a thread about the OL shuffling all preseason and all it took was the 6th post for a poster to say Jones has regressed. And then it just went downward from there.
I've already said numerous times that I know that there is incessant dead horse beating. Nothing new is being said. Yet, folks still want to respond to it.
"Hold on... someone else is wrong in another thread. I'll finish my thoughts to you after I correct them... BRB"
This is a great discussion. Now that we have a thread called "Daniel Jones" lets just make this a sticky thread to the top and lock all future threads about Jones.