Contrary to popular belief, Daniel Jones didn't play a bad game yesterday. Mike Kafka didn't call a bad game yesterday.
Kafka and Daboll had a plan to run the ball and keep the clock moving to keep the ball out of Tua's hands. Unfortunately with the Offensive Line they were left with, they couldn't take it to the outside and there was a complete lack of execution. That lack of execution by the line was also prevalent in Pass Protection.
I can understand practice squad players failing their assignments but Evan Neal just plain sucks and stop saying to move him to Guard because he will just plain suck there too.
Ezeudu was responsible for getting Daniel Jones whiplash. All on him.
Jones had poise but there were several dropped passes. He hit on his best options with maybe a couple of exceptions but that's nitpicking. Holding penalties killed drives that turned potential touchdowns into Field Goal attempts.
As for the Defense... Miami had a great game plan. They ran the ball back and forth to each sideline making the Giants defenders chase their tails on cutbacks, or they got washed out by good run blocking. It's time to retire the Jihad Wards who have their back to the play. The Edges of OJ and Thibs just can't defend the edge.
Speed kills and big plays killed the Giants that turnovers couldn't overcome. Tua had all the time he needed but he often got the ball out in under two seconds to intended one read timing routes that couldn't be defended.
There was no way DJ had the time to look to Jalin Hyatt.
This was another tale of losing a close game in the second half. Once it was 31-16, the Dolphins pinned their ears back and DJ/TT had no chance.
The positives? DJ came back from a horrible game. Erik Grey looks like he may be a decent RB and even blocked well on a couple of opportunities. Once Andrew Thomas and JMS come back, at least there will be some relief and they need to put Glowinski back at RG and hope for the best with Bredeson at LG. Give Neal help from Bellinger. Saquon will make a difference.
Once that line settles in, some Offensive execution will help keep the Defense off the field.
Real bad play by McKinney not giving help over the top for Hawkins. He had a Mixed bag of good and bad. He was often out of position. Pinnock with the exception of the pick 6, also got schooled. That TD he gave up was because he gave up.
I don't see Jones coming back this Sunday and maybe that's a good thing for him. I don't see Tyrod Taylor as much if any of an improvement but perhaps a new set of eyes that's been witness to the carnage will have a plan.
No firing Kafka, Daboll or Schoen. At least not this week. /sarcasm/
If Jones has any serious neck injury, his career is over. It's not worth the risk for him anymore.
I don't care if you love/hate/indifferent about Jones - the fact of the matter is our OL is an utter embarrassment. It really sucks to be a Giants fan because players can't develop behind this nonsense, people are getting hurt, and there's nothing really to look forward to.
The 8 OL who played yesterday should not return to the team next year. I don't care if it's the 7th overall pick or a PS player.
OL is the biggest problem with this team and has been for almost a dozen years.
I don't think Jones played well yesterday. The fact that there really was no difference in the offensive play with Taylor after Jones went out was eye opening for me. This doesn't excuse the line play even without their All Pro Left Tackle and Starting Center. Their play has been awful and you hope those two players are back sooner rather than later.
https://x.com/kurt13warner/status/1711334377286734020?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
I didn't think Jones played bad. He didn't play good either in the times he actually had opportunities (which were few and far between). I don't think TT, if he plays next week, is an improvement. But I also don't think he's much a step back from Jones either. They are very close talent-wise.
Unless your Patrick Mahomes or even a Josh Allen must QB will look like garbage when you can't block.
How did Dak look last night? Not fun not having all day to throw and guys wide open huh?
Again - 99.9% of the QBs will thrive if they can get time and get into a rhythm.
It certainly is not an environment to develop a QB in. Although I must say it would seem Jones would get better at presnap reads, adjusting coverage and hot reads. DJ is very smart, studies film and this should become a strength with the amount of practice he is getting at it. Yet each week the same mistakes.
That skill does not seem to be getting better. At some point the QB needs to negate and/or make the defense pay and despite the opportunities in each game it doesn't happen enough.
Simply put the book on the Giants is stop the run and make Jones beat you. Until he can make the reads, adjust the coverages and hit the hot routes; nothing will change. That exist outside of line play. It is not just Jones, San Fran did the same to Dak last night.
Just my two cents that even with better line play Jones will struggle with Top 10 defenses because he can not do this.
I wrote in a post right after the game, that I felt Jones didn't play badly, as he usually does, but he sure didn't play well. Just more opportunity for the pro-Jones crowd to blame everything on the OL.
That said, there is simply no way I can absolve Kafka from not taking hits, as he should. From the opening game when he had Jones running QB runs when we were down 35 right into yesterday when we were down by 2 scores with 3 minutes left and we were running the ball on 3rd down.
I fully understand that the OL sucks, big time, but as an OC it is his job to design a game plan that MIGHT help the offense, not do the exact same thing, game in and game out. What's the old expression, those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Isn't this exactly what Kafka is doing? We do the same thing over and over and it didn't work before and it won't work now. Does he think these guys on the OL will all of a sudden get it right? As I watch other games, I see draws, screens, and most of all, roll the QB out so he can have another second or two to throw. When have we ever seen this happen? Kafka just does not seem to have what is happening on the field on his play chart. Blame the OL all you want and with good cause, blame Jones all you want, also with good cause, but a lot of this has to go on Kafka who not developing better game plans for the inconsistency of the OL.
Jones didn't play well in my opinion. Check down all game. He had time on many plays. There was a key play where he had a wide open Waller on 3rd down and don't throw the ball. He was indecisive. It's one of the stories of his season so far.
I'll go on record here as saying if Tyrod plays a full game we will see marked improvement in the offense. Jones is she'll shocked. The oline stinks. The play calling sucks (most importantly the running game plays are horrendous with these trick plays to WanDale and the shotgun handoff to the RB standing next to Jones. Telegraphed and vanilla. Time will tell.
Quote from: babywhales on October 09, 2023, 10:31:23 AMIt certainly is not an environment to develop a QB in. Although I must say it would seem Jones would get better at presnap reads, adjusting coverage and hot reads. DJ is very smart, studies film and this should become a strength with the amount of practice he is getting at it. Yet each week the same mistakes.
That skill does not seem to be getting better. At some point the QB needs to negate and/or make the defense pay and despite the opportunities in each game it doesn't happen enough.
Simply put the book on the Giants is stop the run and make Jones beat you. Until he can make the reads, adjust the coverages and hit the hot routes; nothing will change. That exist outside of line play. It is not just Jones, San Fran did the same to Dak last night.
Just my two cents that even with better line play Jones will struggle with Top 10 defenses because he can not do this.
Yep, this is another explanation of how it's not all the line play and not all Jones. Both are an issue and will be issues moving forward if the focus is just on one.
I didn't understand when Bredeson came out of the game and Jaylon Thomas, whom I've never heard of before yesterday, came in to play center, Jones lined up in a shot gun on the first play. I thought for sure it would be a fumble, luckily it was only a low snap.
There are several presnap moments throughout the game when I see the team line up and I just wished they would instead run the ball for nothing then attempt whatever is they've got planned.
Quote from: UncannyGfan on October 09, 2023, 11:05:57 AMI didn't understand when Bredeson came out of the game and Jaylon Thomas, whom I've never heard of before yesterday, came in to play center, Jones lined up in a shot gun on the first play. I thought for sure it would be a fumble, luckily it was only a low snap.
There are several presnap moments throughout the game when I see the team line up and I just wished they would instead run the ball for nothing then attempt whatever is they've got planned.
Great point being made here. Says something about the coaching decisions
My sentiments are exactly the same as Ed's. And in that respect, the PROBLEM faced by Schoen/ Daboll et al, and all of us by extension is, that given the exceedingly ugly play of what has become a dog's breakfast of an Oline, there currently is no way to properly assess Daniel Jones's ability as the Giants starting Quarterback now and for what may be the remainder of the season.
We can only hope that the return of Thomas to LT, Bredeson to LG, Schmitz to OC, and Barkley at RB, if and whenever, may be of benefit to DJ and as such to any and all needed assessments.
Cheers!
Its all interrelated, QB/OL/WR/RB
Its hard to tell who is doing good or bad until things start to settle out. Is Jones not adjusting the protection, is Jones just staring down a receiver, is the OL being put in a good position by Jones but failing, are the WRs not adjusting to the hot reads, etc, etc.
Who the hell knows, I sure don't
Quote from: Painter on October 09, 2023, 11:42:36 AMMy sentiments are exactly the same as Ed's. And in that respect, the PROBLEM faced by Schoen/ Daboll et al, and all of us by extension is, that given the exceedingly ugly play of what has become a dog's breakfast of an Oline, there currently is no way to properly assess Daniel Jones's ability as the Giants starting Quarterback now and for what may be the remainder of the season.
We can only hope that the return of Thomas to LT, Bredeson to LG, Schmitz to OC, and Barkley at RB, if and whenever, may be of benefit to DJ and as such to any and all needed assessments.
Cheers!
Well said
I just know that this team has churned players over the past 5 years and the one constant besides Sertling Shepherd is Jones, at some point we've got to change and I think it starts there.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 01:24:12 PMI just know that this team has churned players over the past 5 years and the one constant besides Sertling Shepherd is Jones, at some point we've got to change and I think it starts there.
PFF grades of players drafted by Schoen
Evan Neal- 36.1
Joshua Ezeudu- 40.6
Marcus McKethan- 46.4
John Michael Schmitz Jr.- 49.0
Daniel Bellinger- 52.9
Eric Gray- 53.0
Jalin Hyatt- 56.3
Wan'Dale Robinson- 66.8
Dane Belton- 37.7
Kayvon Thibodeaux- 44.1
Tre Hawkins III- 45.1
Micah McFadden- 49.1
Deonte Banks- 61.8
D.J. Davidson- 67.5
Jordon Riley- 74.2
Cor'Dale Flott- 77.7
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 01:24:12 PMI just know that this team has churned players over the past 5 years and the one constant besides Sertling Shepherd is Jones, at some point we've got to change and I think it starts there.
That and how the Giants are putting together offensive line units with the assets they have to work with. Are there still too many Mara cronies scouting and voices in the room having a say in who the Giants bring in and how they coach these guys? IDK the answer to that.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 01:32:35 PMPFF grades of players drafted by Schoen
Evan Neal- 36.1
Joshua Ezeudu- 40.6
Marcus McKethan- 46.4
John Michael Schmitz Jr.- 49.0
Daniel Bellinger- 52.9
Eric Gray- 53.0
Jalin Hyatt- 56.3
Wan'Dale Robinson- 66.8
Dane Belton- 37.7
Kayvon Thibodeaux- 44.1
Tre Hawkins III- 45.1
Micah McFadden- 49.1
Deonte Banks- 61.8
D.J. Davidson- 67.5
Jordon Riley- 74.2
Cor'Dale Flott- 77.7
Or it's a reflection of young players getting acclimated or it's a coaching issue or a bad fit to scheme. I was happy to see Flott make a comeback.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 01:32:35 PMPFF grades of players drafted by Schoen
Evan Neal- 36.1
Joshua Ezeudu- 40.6
Marcus McKethan- 46.4
John Michael Schmitz Jr.- 49.0
Daniel Bellinger- 52.9
Eric Gray- 53.0
Jalin Hyatt- 56.3
Wan'Dale Robinson- 66.8
Dane Belton- 37.7
Kayvon Thibodeaux- 44.1
Tre Hawkins III- 45.1
Micah McFadden- 49.1
Deonte Banks- 61.8
D.J. Davidson- 67.5
Jordon Riley- 74.2
Cor'Dale Flott- 77.7
Those are rookies and 2nd year players not 5th year players....
Jones QBR the last 6 games
1. 54.2
2. 22.3
3. 38.2
4. 75.2
5. 8.7
6. 11.7
Jones is on pace for 2,652 yards 6 Tds and 18 Int but yeah let's blame the rookies.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 05:50:04 PMThose are rookies and 2nd year players not 5th year players....
Jones QBR the last 6 games
1. 54.2
2. 22.3
3. 38.2
4. 75.2
5. 8.7
6. 11.7
Jones is on pace for 2,652 yards 6 Tds and 18 Int but yeah let's blame the rookies.
I thought we were talking about the players Schoen brought in and how well they have been playing. What do the stats Jones generated running for his life have to do with that?
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 05:50:04 PMThose are rookies and 2nd year players not 5th year players....
Jones QBR the last 6 games
1. 54.2
2. 22.3
3. 38.2
4. 75.2
5. 8.7
6. 11.7
Jones is on pace for 2,652 yards 6 Tds and 18 Int but yeah let's blame the rookies.
https://x.com/JoeBanner13/status/1711506313698832396?s=20
https://x.com/JoeBanner13/status/1711505215684587611?s=20
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 05:50:04 PMThose are rookies and 2nd year players not 5th year players....
Jones QBR the last 6 games
1. 54.2
2. 22.3
3. 38.2
4. 75.2
5. 8.7
6. 11.7
Jones is on pace for 2,652 yards 6 Tds and 18 Int but yeah let's blame the rookies.
You don't get it PFF grades are facts when they support the narrative you want. When they aren't you look for other grades/stats like QBR. And when QBR doesn't support the narrative you ignore it. Think we all need to understand how these things work.