If I'm leaving something out, please add.
Rotated the guards all training camp and preseason - never with a set lineup- and this included center.
Forced Peart all preseason, and he was so bad thst he didn't even win the swing tackle position and yet still made the team.
- kept playing Lemieux despite him showing nothing his whole career then started him a game when Daboll stated "we looked at his whole body of work" - he quickly got benched.
- cut Tyree Phillips - our backup swing tackle last year for games. Then, once Thomas got hurt, put in a guy who never took LT snaps who wasn't playing well at guard. And that player has been an utter disaster player LT.
Does this seem like a well coached, organized team? Embarrassing.
https://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1711071801277575250?s=20
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 08:44:34 AMhttps://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1711071801277575250?s=20
4 man rush with 55 looking like a spy
- 1 unblocked
- 1 twist unaccounted for
- whiff by the center.
Good stuff.
I've seen this back in the Judge days. Whose assignment was it to block # 84 (or was it 94?)? No one touched him.
How about Neal? He didn't block anyone. He just stood there waiting for someone to come from the inside.
How about the running back? He ran past the blitzing #84.
The rest of the line gave in quickly, but Jones had no option of rolling to his right with the unblocked DE or LB free.
I am not sure what I find more surprising:
The complete and utter breakdown of the offensive line (which wasn't that great last year, but there was hope this season)
OR
How the complete failure of this unit has derailed the entire season
-- QB Daniel Jones pressured on 44% of dropbacks Sunday. Has been pressured 81 times this season, 3rd-most by any player through 5 games since ESPN began tracking pressures in 2009.
-- 18 sacks allowed over last 2 games, most by any team in 2-game span since '86 Eagles
Q. How untenable is it for your quarterback getting hit so much at this point?
BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, you don't want that. Affecting the quarterback plays an important role in the game, and we got to figure out a way to protect him better.
Q. Do you have the personnel on your team to protect the quarterback?
BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, I mean, we got to do better job. Just all the way around.
Q. You took OL Joshua Ezeudu out at one point. What was your thinking behind that?
BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, put (Matt) Peart in there, bring (Joshua Ezeudu) out, settle him down a little bit and let Peart play.
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 08:40:16 AMDoes this seem like a well coached, organized team? Embarrassing.
If the Giants hadn't lost as much as they had due to injury I'd agree with this idea. But you really can't get on the coaches for injuries missing your All Pro Left Tackle and your center.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 09:24:59 AMI am not sure what I find more surprising:
The complete and utter breakdown of the offensive line (which wasn't that great last year, but there was hope this season)
OR
How the complete failure of this unit has derailed the entire season
-- QB Daniel Jones pressured on 44% of dropbacks Sunday. Has been pressured 81 times this season, 3rd-most by any player through 5 games since ESPN began tracking pressures in 2009.
-- 18 sacks allowed over last 2 games, most by any team in 2-game span since '86 Eagles
What I've found surprising is how much Jones has regressed despite having more weapons in the passing game. He's looked more like a rookie QB than he has a 5th year veteran who just got handed a big contract.
That's not to excuse the line play as missing their All Pro Left Tackle has impacted them along with Neal not improving.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:39:28 AMIf the Giants hadn't lost as much as they had due to injury I'd agree with this idea. But you really can't get on the coaches for injuries missing your All Pro Left Tackle and your center.
What I've found surprising is how much Jones has regressed despite having more weapons in the passing game. He's looked more like a rookie QB than he has a 5th year veteran who just got handed a big contract.
That's not to excuse the line play as missing their All Pro Left Tackle has impacted them along with Neal not improving.
The Giants defeated the undefeated Pats by getting pressure on the greatest QB ever in his prime. So I am baffled how you don't understand how more pressure would as Daboll said, "affect the QB"
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 09:43:24 AMThe Giants defeated the undefeated Pats by getting pressure on the greatest QB ever in his prime. So I am baffled how you don't understand how more pressure would as Daboll said, "affect the QB"
Again you're talking about one game with the Super Bowl XLII example. Sure for one game it will throw off a QB but the good to great QB's elevate those around them consistently. Their good/great games are the norm not the exception. With Jones this is the norm. His good games are the exception.
Only a matter of time until it was Jones fault or to blame.
The ideas we have "more" weapons in the passing game is just flat out false. The weapons stink too. That's a whole other issue
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 09:50:10 AMOnly a matter of time until it was Jones fault or to blame.
The ideas we have "more" weapons in the passing game is just flat out false. The weapons stink too. That's a whole other issue
Kinda hard to know whether there are weapons in the passing game when you're only throwing the ball beyond 10 yards 4 times in a game.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:46:15 AMAgain you're talking about one game with the Super Bowl XLII example. Sure for one game it will throw off a QB but the good to great QB's elevate those around them consistently. Their good/great games are the norm not the exception. With Jones this is the norm. His good games are the exception.
https://x.com/kurt13warner/status/1711334377286734020?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 09:51:10 AMKinda hard to know whether there are weapons in the passing game when you're only throwing the ball beyond 10 yards 4 times in a game.
Yes because parris Campbell was a stud before coming over here.
Hey your boy Waller had two 50/50 plays thrown down field. He let Eli Apple get the best of him and let a smaller corner take the ball out of his hands.
But those weren't Wallers fault I bet.
This is a thread about the OL. You hijack every thread making it about Jones. We get it. There are a dozen of other threads to talk about Jones. How about keeping it there for once?
You want to add something about our OL - go for it. But it was predictable you would blame Jones or slight him as soon as the the thread started.
https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711378962436313149?s=61 (https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711378962436313149?s=61)
So these guys are assuming Jones is at fault with the protection but don't know what was really called? Lol. Awesome.
What about Bredeson getting abused at the snap and Glowinski not picking up a stunt...
Is that Jones fault too?
Social media experts are the WORST.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 09, 2023, 10:12:52 AMhttps://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711378962436313149?s=61 (https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711378962436313149?s=61)
Dan is incorrect here. In the Giants offense, the protections are set by the center. Dan has been going after Daniel Jones hard this season, to the point that he is now making mistakes on fundamental facts. Worse, Dan ignored the two other rushers who had easily defeated their blocks.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 09, 2023, 10:12:52 AMhttps://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711378962436313149?s=61 (https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711378962436313149?s=61)
I see Dan quietly (I consider that a lack of character; own up to your mistakes, don't hide them) deleted his post because he realized he was wrong to blame Jones for that play.
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 10:04:48 AMYes because parris Campbell was a stud before coming over here.
Hey your boy Waller had two 50/50 plays thrown down field. He let Eli Apple get the best of him and let a smaller corner take the ball out of his hands.
But those weren't Wallers fault I bet.
This is a thread about the OL. You hijack every thread making it about Jones. We get it. There are a dozen of other threads to talk about Jones. How about keeping it there for once?
You want to add something about our OL - go for it. But it was predictable you would blame Jones or slight him as soon as the the thread started.
You were the one who went off topic mentioning the Giants weapons not believing they were any good. I was just responding to that comment.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 10:22:55 AMDan is incorrect here. In the Giants offense, the protections are set by the center. Dan has been going after Daniel Jones hard this season, to the point that he is now making mistakes on fundamental facts. Worse, Dan ignored the two other rushers who had easily defeated their blocks.
Can it be confirmed what pre-snap responsibilities Jones has been given by the coaching staff?
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 10:50:29 AMCan it be confirmed what pre-snap responsibilities Jones has been given by the coaching staff?
Are you defending a post that even the author has abandoned?
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 10:53:56 AMAre you defending a post that even the author has abandoned?
I am asking an in general question that has come up a number of times without any legit proof. So I will ask that question again as it can explain a lot.
Jones does a very poor job pre snap. He rarely audibles and when he does (yesterday highlights this) he is unsure and everything looks erratic. Can u think of. A time where one of his audibles resulted in a big play?....I can't
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 10:56:22 AMI am asking an in general question that has come up a number of times without any legit proof. So I will ask that question again as it can explain a lot.
Greg,
All summer I listened to interviews from players and coaches. All of them made it clear the protections are called by the center, even if that center is a rookie. You are certainly free to go search those interviews out, but in light of Dan deleting his post because he was wrong, I see little reason to do the work myself.
I'm pretty sure QBs are supposed to audible depending upon what they see pre snap. Jones is poor at best doing this because in the limited times he does we either have to burn a timeout or everything looks helter skelter. And I can't remember the last time I watched him audible where I said "wow that was a good play"
Eli was GREAT at doing this. He also had a serenity and calmness in those moments. So many times I remember saying wow good job Eli.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 09:43:24 AMThe Giants defeated the undefeated Pats by getting pressure on the greatest QB ever in his prime. So I am baffled how you don't understand how more pressure would as Daboll said, "affect the QB"
What about the NFCCG in 2011 where SF beat the hell out of Eli all game? He kept on trucking, shook it off and made the plays and beat them. He was affected but it didn't matter because he had the goods. Jones does not, he would not have won that game.
If we want to cherry pick games for the sake of argument, then this shows
@Rambo89 s point that those games are outliers and the truly good ones are more than capable of making it work all the same, pressure or not.
Quote from: True Blue on October 09, 2023, 11:20:25 AMWhat about the NFCCG in 2011 where SF beat the hell out of Eli all game? He kept on trucking, shook it off and made the plays and beat them. He was affected but it didn't matter because he had the goods. Jones does not, he would not have won that game.
If we want to cherry pick games for the sake of argument, then this shows @Rambo89 s point that those games are outliers and the truly good ones are more than capable of making it work all the same, pressure or not.
Eli was sacked 6 times in that game, Jones has been sacked 16 times in the last two games
Pugh will help stabilize this oline and with Thomas and Schmitz on the mend things will be better very soon
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:22:36 AMEli was sacked 6 times in that game, Jones has been sacked 16 times in the last two games
Ok, you used SB XLII as an example, we only sacked Brady 5 times that games. That was your example that you used. Fewest sacks of any of the games mentioned.
Quote from: True Blue on October 09, 2023, 11:25:27 AMOk, you used SB XLII as an example, we only sacked Brady 5 times that games. That was your example that you used. Fewest sacks of any of the games mentioned.
You see Brady get impacted with just 5 sacks and you expect Jones to be unphased by 16 sacks in two games?
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:03:24 AMGreg,
All summer I listened to interviews from players and coaches. All of them made it clear the protections are called by the center, even if that center is a rookie. You are certainly free to go search those interviews out, but in light of Dan deleting his post because he was wrong, I see little reason to do the work myself.
I have researched and asked the question because I have not seen anything anywhere that says whether Jones has been given the option to adjust the play call or alignment at the LOS pre snap. But I guess according to what you are saying Daniel Jones only has the responsibility to call for the center to snap the ball and run the play as called by the coaches.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:30:59 AMYou see Brady get impacted with just 5 sacks and you expect Jones to be unphased by 16 sacks in two games?
I simply said he (Jones) does not have the goods, which he doesn't, Year 5 Eli in this same offense would be dramatically improved.
I never said he is unphased or should be, he just has not played good ball, neither has the OL.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 11:31:24 AMI have researched and asked the question because I have not seen anything anywhere that says whether Jones has been given the option to adjust the play call or alignment at the LOS pre snap. But I guess according to what you are saying Daniel Jones only has the responsibility to call for the center to snap the ball and run the play as called by the coaches.
You had 3 defenders meeting at the QB. In cases like that, it's not the protection called.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:41:01 AMYou had 3 defenders meeting at the QB. In cases like that, it's not the protection called.
Again that doesn't answer my question which isn't about one play or even one game.
I'll answer it. He unfortunately doesn't make pre snap decisions well. There is game tape to prove it
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 10:33:24 AMI see Dan quietly (I consider that a lack of character; own up to your mistakes, don't hide them) deleted his post because he realized he was wrong to blame Jones for that play.
Dan is a joke & was a terrible qb, but they listen. Same as you have with Marc Ross talking on NFL Network as a Pro when he was a failure.
Quote from: Trench on October 09, 2023, 11:47:47 AMI'll answer it. He unfortunately doesn't make pre snap decisions well. There is game tape to prove it
But have the coaches given him the option of making those pre snap decisions? What I am getting from Rich is that he doesn't and he is just supposed to call for the ball to be snapped and for the play to be run as is. If that's the case then I can't fully blame him if those decisions have been taken away from him.
Quote from: Trench on October 09, 2023, 11:47:47 AMI'll answer it. He unfortunately doesn't make pre snap decisions well. There is game tape to prove it
So you're blaming Jones Bredeson getting beat like a drum and Glowinski not picking up a stunt (for like the 15th time this year).
Agendas usually fail in proving points.
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 11:54:25 AMSo you're blaming Jones Bredeson getting beat like a drum and Glowinski not picking up a stunt (for like the 15th time this year).
Agendas usually fail in proving points.
No I am not. What I am saying is the line stinks but so too does Jones (at the pre snap recognition and audible stuff!)....now if the coaches are not allowing Jones to audible or change things then they need to be FIRED!
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 08:44:34 AMhttps://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1711071801277575250?s=20
I figured it out. The problem is with the helmets. They need to replace the NY with Giants like they wore in the Parcells era. Whenever I see today's helmets I always think briefly of the mid 60's to early 70's Giants. After watching the short video I thought Jones is the only Giant in the picture with his ass on the ground, and what are each of the OL thinking when they see him down after being greeted by three Fish.
Quote from: Trench on October 09, 2023, 12:06:14 PMNo I am not. What I am saying is the line stinks but so too does Jones (at the pre snap recognition and audible stuff!)....now if the coaches are not allowing Jones to audible or change things then they need to be FIRED!
I am not going to make assertions like the social medias experts do on who's to blame or who should be doing what.
1) we don't know who's responsible
2) we don't know what's called
3) we don't know who screwed up
It could be jones, it could be the center, it could be a member of the OL.
Assuming who's to blame based off what we think should happen is very dangerous.
Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 12:23:19 PMI am not going to make assertions like the social medias experts do on who's to blame or who should be doing what.
1) we don't know who's responsible
2) we don't know what's called
3) we don't know who screwed up
It could be jones, it could be the center, it could be a member of the OL.
Assuming who's to blame based off what we think should happen is very dangerous.
This is why I am asking to confirm who has what responsibility and have for weeks. I don't want to assume. Yet it's assumed I am just automatically blaming Jones when I am not.
While certainty they lack talent all around. This looks like a team that's being very badly coached.
To answer that question Schneider provides his insight based off what he heard from Kafka's off season comments. Sounds like it's issues all around.
https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711401010881499322?s=61 (https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711401010881499322?s=61)
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 12:58:05 PMTo answer that question Schneider provides his insight based off what he heard from Kafka's off season comments. Sounds like it's issues all around.
https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711401010881499322?s=61 (https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711401010881499322?s=61)
The post you choose to share literally says- "
Can't fault the QB here. OL has been bad v. stunts/twists forever."
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 01:07:28 PMThe post you choose to share literally says- "Can't fault the QB here. OL has been bad v. stunts/twists forever."
Read the first sentence what does it say as far as responsibility based upon Kafka's comments?
That was shared to clarify the question I have asked for weeks which has gone unanswered. I am sorry that it goes against the narrative that it's always the center's fault.