Why is it that our little group of Informed Fans knew that there was a failure to upgrade the Offensive Line this offseason with only the drafting of a starting Center? The Giants did not.
We all commented that the two guard positions needed an upgrade and there was no Swing Tackle that could be relied upon.
During Camp we were happy that Bredeson was showing signs of being solid but with no backup Center, the poor guy has been forced to play three positions with no way of settling in. I'll admit I was fooled into believing that Peart might just be a viable option and hoped Ezeudu's athleticism would sustain him at LT in Thomas' absence.
We heard about how Neal worked hard all offseason and hoped for him to elevate his play but that didn't happen.
So when the best player in the team went down, the Blind side was exposed and when both ends come crumbling down, and there is a revolving gate in the middle, the entire Offense breaks down.
They truly believed in Neal, Peart and Ezeudu. They felt that Bredeson and Glowinski would be fine.
So instead of bringing in better players, they went with the status quo and went all out on getting more Receiving options for Daniel Jones. The only thing is that he can't function under these conditions and Campbell, Hyatt and Waller are rendered useless.
I can't even put it all on Schoen because he gets his needs from the Coaching Staff.
What should have been at least a mediocre Oline became the worst in the league and in Giants history because of injuries to multiple players. So bad that they had to elevate two practice squad players who actually had game time.
This isn't to absolve Daniel Jones of his shortcomings but to expose that Daboll and Schoen and Johnson and Kafka failed to recognize them.
Right now Johnson and Tierney have done nothing to help elevate these players. Part of it is the talent and part of it is on them.
Very disappointing. Five Head Coaches and three GM's later and this Offensive line remains Offensive.
Mara so far has remained silent but I'm sure he's having meetings today. I have to wonder if his influence in wanting Daniel Jones to succeed has lead Schoen to sign Jones to a multi-year deal and bring in weapons for Jones to succeed.
If the Giants were home yesterday, I suspect Mara would be rattled by the booing that would have taken place.
They say that hope a poor substitute for a plan
They hoped for good health even though the team has led the league in injuries for a decade, and they did not address the VP in charge of such things. So their star LT suffers a setback from a minor hamstring injury and has missed an extra two games and counting.
They hoped Evan Neal would get better rather than preparing in case he didn't
They hoped Ezeudu would get better and hoped McKethan would get healthy and play well, instead of preparing if they didn't
They hoped Peart or Philips would be adequate swing tackles rather than ensuring they had a proper one
They hoped declining Glowinski had another year in him rather than having an actual plan
They let two high-end backup/low-end starter walk in free agency (Gates and Feliciano) while hoping that a drafted 2nd round center would replace the two of them.
To make matters worse, teams can cover (somewhat) for one bad OT by slanting the coverage toward the weak one (creating a bigger challenge for the OT on the other side) or you can send chips and help blocks toward one of the OTs. When Thomas went down, not only did they lose their wall on the left side, it made things more difficult for Neal because the offense could no longer provide him help (without weakening the receivers by leaving extra players to block).
After a decade of futility, we all wanted the Giants to do well this year and build on their success from last season. So we all accepted hope in leu of a plan when it came to the O-line
Again I don't think this was a case of the Front Office and Coaching staff not recognizing that they needed better offensive line play. They wouldn't have invested the 7th overall pick a year ago (in addition to other draft selections) and a 2nd rounder this year if they didn't believe it was an issue. There is only so many draft picks and cap space they have to work with. And it's not the only need they've had the last two off seasons.
This is a case of the moves they've made have not worked out on top of injuries this season. So I don't think this is a disconnect.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 11:17:28 AMThey say that hope a poor substitute for a plan
They hoped for good health even though the team has led the league in injuries for a decade, and they did not address the VP in charge of such things. So their star LT suffers a setback from a minor hamstring injury and has missed an extra two games and counting.
They hoped Evan Neal would get better rather than preparing in case he didn't
They hoped Ezeudu would get better and hoped McKethan would get healthy and play well, instead of preparing if they didn't
They hoped Peart or Philips would be adequate swing tackles rather than ensuring they had a proper one
They hoped declining Glowinski had another year in him rather than having an actual plan
They let two high-end backup/low-end starter backups walk in free agency (Gates and Feliciano) while hoping that a drafted 2nd round center would replace the two of them.
To make matters worse, teams can cover (somewhat) for one bad OT by slanting the coverage toward the weak one (creating a bigger challenge for the OT on the other side) or you can send chips and help blocks toward one of the OTs. When Thomas went down, not only did they lose their wall on the left side, it made things more difficult for Neal because the offense could no longer provide him help (without weakening the receivers by leaving extra players to block).
After a decade of futility, we all wanted the Giants to do well this year and build on their success from last season. So we all accepted hope in leu of a plan when it came to the O-line
As it turned out Gates and Feliciano became huge losses.
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 11:21:49 AMAgain I don't think this was a case of the Front Office and Coaching staff not recognizing that they needed better offensive line play. They wouldn't have invested the 7th overall pick a year ago (in addition to other draft selections) and a 2nd rounder this year if they didn't believe it was an issue. There is only so many draft picks and cap space they have to work with. And it's not the only need they've had the last two off seasons.
This is a case of the moves they've made have not worked out on top of injuries this season. So I don't think this is a disconnect.
The disconnect is from last season to this season. They have three draft picks on that line that they hoped would work out. They failed.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 11:24:11 AMThe disconnect is from last season to this season. They have three draft picks on that line that they hoped would work out. They failed.
They also spent a 2nd round pick on a Center last off season. When you have to spend as much cap space as they did on retaining the QB their All Pro Left Tackle and All Pro Defensive Tackle there is only so much cap space left to spend in FA.
JMS was one of the two best Centers in this draft. And the idea that Neal could possibly be as bad as he was last year two years in a row was, at the time, far fetched. He had allegedly spent the entire offseason working on getting leaner, faster, and improving his technique with a variety of coaches/former players.
So they couldn't upgrade every position at once, especially after giving Jones that contract but they had seemingly been prepared to go into the season with a significant upgrade at Center and RT and would worry about the guards next season. As it turns out JMS was pretty good until he got hurt, and Neal has been an unmitigated disaster. So the bottom line is they're trying...it's just not really working.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 11:09:38 AMWhy is it that our little group of Informed Fans knew that there was a failure to upgrade the Offensive Line this offseason with only the drafting of a starting Center? The Giants did not.
Very disappointing. Five Head Coaches and three GM's later and this Offensive line remains Offensive.
I'm call xxxxxxxx with the fans out here knowing this could happen!
I joined maybe a month before the season and made claims I don't "trust Scoen or Dabs because they did very little to upgrade the oline and wasted $10 million on two average WRs instead of investing that capital to the oline.
I was called stupid and a troll for making these posts from a handful of the regulars out here.
I hate that I was correct but never in could've imagined they would be this bad!
Time to restart the rebuild this off season which means a few more years of not being competitive with the better teams!
Quote from: RelaxTension on October 09, 2023, 12:30:27 PMI'm call xxxxxxxx with the fans out here knowing this could happen!
I joined maybe a month before the season and made claims I don't "trust Scoen or Dabs because they did very little to upgrade the oline and wasted $10 million on two average WRs instead of investing that capital to the oline.
I was called stupid and a troll for making these posts from a handful of the regulars out here.
I hate that I was correct but never in could've imagined they would be this bad!
Time to restart the rebuild this off season which means a few more years of not being competitive with the better teams!
Then you would be vindicated. Please show us the posts.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 12:57:38 PMThen you would be vindicated. Please show us the posts.
How do I search?
Quote from: RelaxTension on October 09, 2023, 01:34:21 PMHow do I search?
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?action=search
You can limit your search to key word, poster, and limit how far you go back
There was plenty of Oline discussion and concerns.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65809.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65777.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66102.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66265.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66405.0
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 01:44:42 PMThere was plenty of Oline discussion and concerns.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65809.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65777.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66102.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66265.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66405.0
Thanks for trying but like I said I have nothing to prove and now I'm just coming off as a whining XXXXXXX. My responses were in August and those were earlier.
Enjoy the moment..
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 01:44:42 PMThere was plenty of Oline discussion and concerns.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65809.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65777.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66102.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66265.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66405.0
Quote from: Rambo89 on May 02, 2023, 12:43:39 PMAt this point in the off season the opportunity to fill needs is pretty much finished. Outside of some minor things here and there this is their team.
As far as concerns, for me its:
1) Injuries/Health
2) The 2022 Rookies taking a big step forward specifically the top 10 picks
3) Daboll and his staff's ability to adapt to no longer being looked over as an opponent in the NFL.
I didn't think for a second at the time that all of this would go against the Giants through the first 5 weeks. Forget the 3 point I don't think it would have been a surprise that the Giants would struggle with the first two items going against them.
Quote from: RelaxTension on October 09, 2023, 01:50:46 PMThanks for trying but like I said I have nothing to prove and now I'm just coming off as a whining XXXXXXX. My responses were in August and those were earlier.
Enjoy the moment..
Here are all your posts. I can see you did have concerns for the O-Line but it doesn't mean you were the only one. It adds to my point. You did seem to have a debate with one person. Although I didn't read through everything. I hope I didn't give you a hard time over it.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=2712;area=showposts;start=210
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 01:54:57 PMHere are all your posts. I can see you did have concerns for the O-Line but it doesn't mean you were the only one. It adds to my point. You did seem to have a debate with one person. Although I didn't read through everything. I hope I didn't give you a hard time over it.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=2712;area=showposts;start=210
Ed if I may I did find this. So RT is correct about his concern about the line. But was also incorrect at the reaction to his concern which wasn't as harsh as it was portrayed. The response to his point were made were about the amount of resources the Giants have and that pouring more resources into the line would have come at a cost of other needs they had and still have.
Quote from: RelaxTension on August 17, 2023, 02:02:57 PMNot sure why some are happy about this oline which is currently rank close to the bottom of the league without even seeing them play together yet.
I feel that grading players is too difficult to accomplish but it's pretty unanimous that they aren't good or significantly better with one playing instead of another.. That's all not counting Thomas who would make them a significantly worse oline without him but still not close to average even with him..
Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 01:58:31 PMEd if I may I did find this. So RT is correct about his concern about the line. But was also incorrect at the reaction to his concern which wasn't as harsh as it was portrayed. The response to his point were made were about the amount of resources the Giants have and that pouring more resources into the line would have come at a cost of other needs they had and still have.
The abuse came when I stated I don't see why fans have trust with Schoen and Dabs after just one season especially without improving the oline during this off season.
Thanks for trying and you weren't one of the assholes.
Quote from: RelaxTension on October 09, 2023, 02:16:32 PMThe abuse came when I stated I don't see why fans have trust with Schoen and Dabs after just one season without improving the oline during this off season.
Thanks for trying and you weren't one of the assholes.
In fairness I didn't see the responses to be abusive any more so than the normal back and forth on this forum. You were correct though in concerns you had about the line going into the season.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
In here, #Giants ignoring swing OT all offseason seemed like a small oversight that now has mushroomed into a crippling disaster. https://nypost.com/2023/10/09/daniel-jones-injury-underscores-giants-offensive-line-crisis/
Why no signings or draft picks?
Why was Tyre Phillips (5 starts in '22) cut?
Why was Matt Peart kept if coaches dont trust him to play OT? He couldve been swapped out for another team's post-camp cut.
Josh Ezeudu is a backup guard playing LT and RG Marcus McKethan is 6th round pick who missed his entire rookie season due to injury and didnt practice with the starters all summer. How are they supposed to succeed?
Man, Neal really is the biggest disappointment. A 2nd year #7 pick scoring in the 30s and 40s regularly on PFF is a huge setback. Phillips Gates, or Feliciano would definitely help right now. If the offseason were today, I'd cut some vets Campbell, Leo. Adoree, Shep, and sign a top RT and draft o line depth to weed out the Pearts and Lemuixs.
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1711754718186189200?s=20
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Talked to an NFL offensive coach and an NFL scout who both believe #Giants Josh Ezeudu's best position moving forward is tackle, not guard. He played OT at #UNC.
So, why was he not getting 2nd team OT reps during training camp?
My guess (my words) is #nyg were trying to build a "best six" OL where Ezeudu could be main backup at 4 positions and figured he needed more work at guard than tackle to pull it off. Weren't expecting to be in this spot without Andrew Thomas for so long, so early.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 10, 2023, 11:59:42 AMhttps://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1711754718186189200?s=20
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
Talked to an NFL offensive coach and an NFL scout who both believe #Giants Josh Ezeudu's best position moving forward is tackle, not guard. He played OT at #UNC.
So, why was he not getting 2nd team OT reps during training camp?
My guess (my words) is #nyg were trying to build a "best six" OL where Ezeudu could be main backup at 4 positions and figured he needed more work at guard than tackle to pull it off. Weren't expecting to be in this spot without Andrew Thomas for so long, so early.
I watched film of him before and after that draft and I saw him as a Tackle too. I said it then and mentioned it to a few people at camp. I thought I was alone on that deduction.
Well he didn't move too well the other day but I will say the young man is passionate and I like that he deeply cares. I assume he is a hard worker who wants to improve. I'd like to see him get a chance if that's his best spot
Quote from: Trench on October 10, 2023, 07:59:38 PMWell he didn't move too well the other day but I will say the young man is passionate and I like that he deeply cares. I assume he is a hard worker who wants to improve. I'd like to see him get a chance if that's his best spot
I think they should work with him and see if he has a place to return next season. He's been clearly overwhelmed so hopefully he can improve. I remember one year the Giants having a six sack day on a rookie OT for the Eagles. He turned out to be an all pro.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 10, 2023, 09:33:49 PMI think they should work with him and see if he has a place to return next season. He's been clearly overwhelmed so hopefully he can improve. I remember one year the Giants having a six sack day on a rookie OT for the Eagles. He turned out to be an all pro.
John Runyan was a rookie that year Osi used him like a shopping cart?
Quote from: TDToomer on October 11, 2023, 10:43:42 PMJohn Runyan was a rookie that year Osi used him like a shopping cart?
It wasn't Runyan. He played RT. Forgot who the guy was on the left side. Eagles never game him help the entire game.
Edit: just remembered it was Winston Justice
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 12, 2023, 08:26:58 AMIt wasn't Runyan. He played RT. Forgot who the guy was on the left side. Eagles never game him help the entire game.
Edit: just remembered it was Winston Justice
Thanks for refreshing my memory. It was Strahan that tussled with Runyan on the other side.
Ezeudu is a better tackle, I also think he'd be playing a little better if the rest of the line was stable. I just don't know that he translates to RT.
First Domino to fall is figuring out if Neal can be a good tackle or guard. He just now has a year of game tape because he was injured last season. So it really is early and the fan base aren't going to want to give him 5 years to figure it out.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 12, 2023, 04:20:50 PMEzeudu is a better tackle, I also think he'd be playing a little better if the rest of the line was stable. I just don't know that he translates to RT.
First Domino to fall is figuring out if Neal can be a good tackle or guard. He just now has a year of game tape because he was injured last season. So it really is early and the fan base aren't going to want to give him 5 years to figure it out.
At what point did Andrew Thomas start to make a leap? Was it game 1 of year 2 or a few games in when it became noticeable?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on October 12, 2023, 07:05:54 PMAt what point did Andrew Thomas start to make a leap? Was it game 1 of year 2 or a few games in when it became noticeable?
I think Thomas had ups and downs even in year 2 but I can't remember exactly.
I think people forget Neal only started 13 games last season, so counting the 5 games this season he's really only played 18 games, and most of that with a revolving door at RG.
Unfortunately a lot of fans have tied themselves up in knots trying to figure out who's to blame about the OLine....
I encourage people to listen to Mark Collins' interview on Giants Insider podcast this week.
Mark's one of the best CB's in franchise history and still bleeds Giants blue and follows the team as closely as any of us. It's always great to get a former player's perspective for obvious reasons.
Some key takeaways:
*Collins says what most of us think: there is a massive disconnect between what we saw last year and this year. You don't just go from a playoff team on the upswing to completely non-competitive like we've seen this year. He can't put his finger on it, but something is seriously wrong.
*When pressed, he blamed the coaching. Related a story from back when he was playing, the Giants DB Coach (Len Fontes) said to his troops "I'm not getting fired because of you". Fontes showed them EVERYTHING, went over every imaginable situation and exactly how to defend it. Collins said "every DB knew exactly what to do when they stepped on the field". Said Belichick coached the same way. Mark didn't make any bones about it: he feels Bobby Johnson should be fired for not getting the OL ready to play. The mistakes they are making aren't about talent, they're about preparation. He's never seen the kind of errors these guys make even in Pop Warner. (Unable to ID stunts, guys turning their backs to rushers, etc.) There has to be accountability for the position coaches and BJ has done a piss poor job.
*They also brought up the defense and the bad tackling. Collins played CB like a LB. Great form tackler. Said the lack of contact in preseason isn't an excuse - it's about "desire". Said he would've been rusty in certain aspects of the game after time off, but not tackling. Would always know how to lay a smack on somebody and that went for everyone on the D. Laughed at the idea you'd have to build up your tackling at this level. It's about a mindset to put the guy on the ground.
*Overall, said you just don't see the kind of low quality play "at this level" the Giants are showing. It's about pride, and looking yourselves in the mirror.
The Giants have a big problem here - the coaches aren't getting the job done, there is zero accountability among the coaches (you can throw McGaughey in there too), and they don't have guys with the right mindset. He even took some shots at Jerome Henderson (who we all seem to think is fantastic) for the lack of tackling and Adoree's lack of understanding in the slot.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 11:09:38 AMWhy is it that our little group of Informed Fans knew that there was a failure to upgrade the Offensive Line this offseason with only the drafting of a starting Center? The Giants did not.
We all commented that the two guard positions needed an upgrade and there was no Swing Tackle that could be relied upon.
During Camp we were happy that Bredeson was showing signs of being solid but with no backup Center, the poor guy has been forced to play three positions with no way of settling in. I'll admit I was fooled into believing that Peart might just be a viable option and hoped Ezeudu's athleticism would sustain him at LT in Thomas' absence.
We heard about how Neal worked hard all offseason and hoped for him to elevate his play but that didn't happen.
So when the best player in the team went down, the Blind side was exposed and when both ends come crumbling down, and there is a revolving gate in the middle, the entire Offense breaks down.
They truly believed in Neal, Peart and Ezeudu. They felt that Bredeson and Glowinski would be fine.
So instead of bringing in better players, they went with the status quo and went all out on getting more Receiving options for Daniel Jones. The only thing is that he can't function under these conditions and Campbell, Hyatt and Waller are rendered useless.
I can't even put it all on Schoen because he gets his needs from the Coaching Staff.
What should have been at least a mediocre Oline became the worst in the league and in Giants history because of injuries to multiple players. So bad that they had to elevate two practice squad players who actually had game time.
This isn't to absolve Daniel Jones of his shortcomings but to expose that Daboll and Schoen and Johnson and Kafka failed to recognize them.
Right now Johnson and Tierney have done nothing to help elevate these players. Part of it is the talent and part of it is on them.
Very disappointing. Five Head Coaches and three GM's later and this Offensive line remains Offensive.
Mara so far has remained silent but I'm sure he's having meetings today. I have to wonder if his influence in wanting Daniel Jones to succeed has lead Schoen to sign Jones to a multi-year deal and bring in weapons for Jones to succeed.
If the Giants were home yesterday, I suspect Mara would be rattled by the booing that would have taken place.
Offensive line coaching needs to be changed at the very least.
It has been done before and should be done again. These guys aren't getting it done
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: Woody on October 13, 2023, 01:39:15 PMOffensive line coaching needs to be changed at the very least.
It has been done before and should be done again. These guys aren't getting it done
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Now or at the end of the season?
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 13, 2023, 01:51:35 PMNow or at the end of the season?
Now. I think Dallas did it a few years ago and the Giants as well.
Can't get worse.
Also remember they let a lot of experience walk this year...Fernandez and I can't remember name the other lineman....
Gates as well ...now playing now starting for Washington.
Young guys don't get it or they are not very good....again coaching?
David Deil made a comment a couple of years ago ....about the big dollar guy they got from Pats....how he was being coached much different than when he played with Patriots....i.e. techniques,schemes everything and how difficult it was for him to change.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: 4 Aces on October 13, 2023, 11:45:20 AMUnfortunately a lot of fans have tied themselves up in knots trying to figure out who's to blame about the OLine....
I encourage people to listen to Mark Collins' interview on Giants Insider podcast this week.
Mark's one of the best CB's in franchise history and still bleeds Giants blue and follows the team as closely as any of us. It's always great to get a former player's perspective for obvious reasons.
Some key takeaways:
*Collins says what most of us think: there is a massive disconnect between what we saw last year and this year. You don't just go from a playoff team on the upswing to completely non-competitive like we've seen this year. He can't put his finger on it, but something is seriously wrong.
M Collins is one of the most underrated Giants of All-Time; however, the foundation of his argument is factually incorrect. On average, literally half the teams that make the playoffs one year, won't repeat the following season. From my perspective, it was clear both Minn and the Giants were going to be a victim of this stat, as both teams were unlikely to benefit from the same relative good health and fortunate bounces the enjoyed last year. To that point, I believe a significant portion of BBH posters stated the Giants we're still in a rebuild and unlikely to repeat last year's performance.
The oscillation between our coaches are great, to they suck, amuses me. Fundamentally, it's the same staff from last season...did they forget how to coach? No, the Giants poor play is much simpler to explain:
1. Their schedule is a LOT more difficult. Is anyone really surprised by any of the losses? I'll grant you they way we lost them is disappointing, but not the loss itself.
2. Injuries, injuries, injuries. It's hard to be competitive with half your team on the injury report.
3. They've had an anemic offense for 5 years, which leaves little margin for #2
4. They have young players on defense.
The notion that nobody saw this coming is also factually incorrect; there's a reason Vegas O/U for the Giants this season was 7.5 wins. The majority of NFL fans were skeptical about the Giants repeating, or building on last years performance. Finally, the downward trajectory did not begin this season, it started after week 8 last year; the Giants finished with a 3-5-1 record, which isn't exactly an ascending team.'
Firing or replacing the coaches won't magically put us on a trajectory equal to Phili or SF. I'm afraid the house needs more than just a few shingles...
Quote from: Woody on October 13, 2023, 02:00:49 PMNow. I think Dallas did it a few years ago and the Giants as well.
Can't get worse.
Also remember they let a lot of experience walk this year...Fernandez and I can't remember name the other lineman....
Gates as well ...now playing now starting for Washington.
Young guys don't get it or they are not very good....again coaching?
David Deil made a comment a couple of years ago ....about the big dollar guy they got from Pats....how he was being coached much different than when he played with Patriots....i.e. techniques,schemes everything and how difficult it was for him to change.
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Who would you replace him with?
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 11:22:09 AMAs it turned out Gates and Feliciano became huge losses.
Did they? Or was it the OL Coach who didn't put them in a position to win.
Just maybe there are OL of equal or greater talent on this roster who are suffering under Johnson's "tutelage".
Think about it: 2 grizzled vets, suddenly rejuvenated in one year at two separate teams?
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As I mentioned before, the Giants lost Sprano Jr, who was their assistant O-line coach. He became Indy's O-line coach and that line is doing well. It's possible last season Bobby was propped up by a talented assistant.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 13, 2023, 02:12:04 PMWho would you replace him with?
How about Chris Snee? He's a qualified Coach and couldn't be any worse than Johnson.
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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on October 13, 2023, 02:57:47 PMDid they? Or was it the OL Coach who didn't put them in a position to win.
Just maybe there are OL of equal or greater talent on this roster who are suffering under Johnson's "tutelage".
Think about it: 2 grizzled vets, suddenly rejuvenated in one year at two separate teams?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Gates is the exact same player in Washington as he was in NY; he literally leads the league in sacks allowed and has the exact same PFF scores as the previous 4 seasons. He's not any better, or any worse, despite playing for different coaches. Feliciano is backup; he's only played 35 snaps. Like most veterans on their second contracts, coaching seems to have little impact on their individual performances
Quote from: kingm56 on October 13, 2023, 03:39:16 PMGates is the exact same player in Washington as he was in NY; he literally leads the league in sacks allowed and has the exact same PFF scores as the previous 4 seasons. He's not any better, or any worse, despite playing for different coaches. Feliciano is backup; he's only played 35 snaps. Like most veterans on their second contracts, coaching seems to have little impact on their individual performances
Both better than Lemieux, McK at this point and the PS shlubs.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on October 13, 2023, 03:12:16 PMHow about Chris Snee? He's a qualified Coach and couldn't be any worse than Johnson.
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He has a job.
Quote from: Ed Vette on October 13, 2023, 04:18:17 PMBoth better than Lemieux, McK at this point and the PS shlubs.
Zero arguments! I'm not sure how/why Lemieux is still playing in the NFL.