i dont think its an absolute that we draft a qb with our first pick. its a pretty deep qb draft, can probably get a decent one with one of our 2nd round picks.
personally, i'd rather get 3 impact players with our 1, and 2 2's.
So, are there any players that you would love to get with our 1st round pick that isnt a qb? and why?
The only positions worthy of what is expected to be a high first rounder (top 8) is QB, Wr, OT and edge rusher. Several WRs and OTs would fit the bill but I am not sure any edge rusher is worthy specially with Winks system.
Right now, I would take Marvin Harrison, Jr. Several members like other WR's more (or at least as much).
Why Harrison? IMO he's done it longest & most consistently of all top college WR's (against serious competition).
With Harrison, Hyatt and W.Robinson, the Giants would be able to compete.
Bob
I like the top WRs in this draft a lot. Coleman is big and physical. Harrison is smooth as silk.
My problem with the top OTs in this draft is that they are all OLTs. I dont want to convert one to ORT. I want an ORT.
If we dont go QB in round 1, I think targets may be at WR or DL/Edge.
Quote from: Philosophers on October 31, 2023, 01:37:18 PMI like the top WRs in this draft a lot. Coleman is big and physical. Harrison is smooth as silk.
My problem with the top OTs in this draft is that they are all OLTs. I dont want to convert one to ORT. I want an ORT.
If we dont go QB in round 1, I think targets may be at WR or DL/Edge.
Phil: Edge would be my first choice if not for the presence of Harrison. Got to add to my prior post that having a "pedigree" carries weight, even among the refs. I believe he'll get INT calls that most "nobodies" can only dream about. Time to take advantage of the "human-ness" of the refs. We need every bit of help we can get. Bob
Quote from: B1GBLUE on October 31, 2023, 01:22:49 PMi dont think its an absolute that we draft a qb with our first pick. its a pretty deep qb draft, can probably get a decent one with one of our 2nd round picks.
personally, i'd rather get 3 impact players with our 1, and 2 2's.
So, are there any players that you would love to get with our 1st round pick that isnt a qb? and why?
This will give you a feel for some of the top prospects in next year's draft
https://thedraftnetwork.com/nfl-mock-draft-2024-october-fowler-2/
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 31, 2023, 01:50:23 PMThis will give you a feel for some of the top prospects in next year's draft
https://thedraftnetwork.com/nfl-mock-draft-2024-october-fowler-2/
Rich: If the draft were today and you were AZ and the Giants called you to trade up for Harrison, would you take the deal? AZ's only worry would be that the Bears (who will not take a QB) might also trade down and AZ could then lose their first choice at QB (or not... or they might even like Maye better - I do). Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 31, 2023, 02:07:46 PMRich: If the draft were today and you were AZ and the Giants called you to trade up for Harrison, would you take the deal? AZ's only worry would be that the Bears (who will not take a QB) might also trade down and AZ could then lose their first choice at QB (or not... or they might even like Maye better - I do). Bob
Bob,
We still have 9 games to play. I am not ready to start focusing that much on the draft, I think there is still more to learn about this team.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 31, 2023, 02:09:51 PMBob,
We still have 9 games to play. I am not ready to start focusing that much on the draft, I think there is still more to learn about this team.
Rich: Yeah, but you can use the link you kindly posted to pretend today is draft day and THAT is the draft order so you can answer my question (unless you don't know enough about the players mentioned to render a view - I often forget that not everyone watches as much college ball as I do). Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 31, 2023, 02:16:00 PMRich: Yeah, but you can use the link you kindly posted to pretend today is draft day and THAT is the draft order so you answer my question (unless you don't know enough about the players mentioned to render a view - I often forget that not everyone watches as much college ball as I do). Bob
Bob,
It occurred to me today that I think most of us and many of the football reporters and pundits have decided the Giants are taking a QB. However, we don't know what they are thinking in the building. We don't know what the Giants' medical staff thinks of DJ's neck, or it's future stability.
We also don't know where the Giants will be drafting (which I think could have a big impact on their plans).
Plus, while I appreciate the season is likely over, I am simply unwilling to start talking draft. I don't want to be one of those people in February or March complaining that they are sick of hearing about and talking about the draft. So, I tend to consider the draft at a distance until the season is over (when there are not more games to be played).
Quote from: Philosophers on October 31, 2023, 01:37:18 PMI like the top WRs in this draft a lot. Coleman is big and physical. Harrison is smooth as silk.
My problem with the top OTs in this draft is that they are all OLTs. I dont want to convert one to ORT. I want an ORT.
If we dont go QB in round 1, I think targets may be at WR or DL/Edge.
The problem with that is that schools take their best tackle and play them on the left side. If you force yourself only to draft an OT who was strictly a right tackle in college you are forcing yourself into drafting a teams second best tackle. Just because Neal has struggled, as Alabama linemen tend to, doesn't mean that the kid from PSU or the kid from Notre Dame can't make the transition. Also Neal spent a full year at RT for the Tide before shifting to the left side so he had experience and still failed.
Quote from: madbadger on October 31, 2023, 02:35:51 PMThe problem with that is that schools take their best tackle and play them on the left side. If you force yourself only to draft an OT who was strictly a right tackle in college you are forcing yourself into drafting a teams second best tackle. Just because Neal has struggled, as Alabama linemen tend to, doesn't mean that the kid from PSU or the kid from Notre Dame can't make the transition. Also Neal spent a full year at RT for the Tide before shifting to the left side so he had experience and still failed.
I hear you and there is some truth to it. Fans think players can play left vs right interchangeably. Players say that is not true. In college where there is greater disparity in talent skills a player may be able shift and win on athleticism alone but in the NFL, it's more about a side that a player naturally moves better on. Right vs left handed.
Some schools that traditionally produce good OL have very good ORTs.
JJ Mccarthy QB
Harrison Jr Wr Ohio St
Brock Bowers TE Georgia
Odunze WR Washington
Latu the edge from UCLA
My Top 5 wish list
I have no problem taking a guy who played RT in college, but given Mad's point let's maybe not use a high first rounder on that.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 31, 2023, 02:27:24 PMBob,
Plus, while I appreciate the season is likely over, I am simply unwilling to start talking draft. I don't want to be one of those people in February or March complaining that they are sick of hearing about and talking about the draft. So, I tend to consider the draft at a distance until the season is over (when there are not more games to be played).
Rich: Completely understandable, considering all you do here. Bob
Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 31, 2023, 02:54:13 PMJJ Mccarthy QB
Harrison Jr Wr Ohio St
Brock Bowers TE Georgia
Odunze WR Washington
Latu the edge from UCLA
My Top 5 wish list
J: There are A TON-AND-A-HALF good TE's coming out, and the Giants IMO are sure to draft one (at least). Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 31, 2023, 04:36:50 PMJ: There are A TON-AND-A-HALF good TE's coming out, and the Giants IMO are sure to draft one (at least). Bob
Just not Bowers hopefully.
Quote from: sooners56 on October 31, 2023, 04:45:27 PMJust not Bowers hopefully.
That post came out sort-of "sideways" because it sounds like you wouldn't want him in the 2nd round, for example (which I know is untrue) when you're really trying to say taking him rather than a player (or position) you like better in the 1st round would in your opinion be a tragic blunder. Bob
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 31, 2023, 02:59:06 PMI have no problem taking a guy who played RT in college, but given Mad's point let's maybe not use a high first rounder on that.
Kareem McKenize was the last really good LT the Giants have had. He was a 1st round pick out of PSU as a LT where he started his career with the Jets. When the Giants signed him they already had Deihl at LT so the flipped him to the right fairly seamlessly. I think it has more to do with the player than anything else.
Quote from: MightyGiants on October 31, 2023, 01:50:23 PMThis will give you a feel for some of the top prospects in next year's draft
https://thedraftnetwork.com/nfl-mock-draft-2024-october-fowler-2/
Rich...I would be beyond pissed :
3. New York Giants
Keon Coleman WR, Florida State
We are NOT a WR away from anything. We need a QB,OT and Edge
4. New England Patriots
Drake Maye QB, North Carolina
6. Green Bay Packers
J.J. McCarthy QB, Michigan
12. Las Vegas Raiders
Bo Nix QB, Oregon
And
5. Chicago Bears
Joe Alt OT, Notre Dame
7. Los Angeles Chargers
Olu Fashanu OT, Penn State
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 31, 2023, 02:59:06 PMI have no problem taking a guy who played RT in college, but given Mad's point let's maybe not use a high first rounder on that.
Abrham Lucus could have been that guy
Harrison might be real good, but a WR in the first round is a luxury a team like the Giants just can't afford. Get the QB first.
I don't want to even think about a non-QB in round 1. This deep needs to do whatever it takes to get their top guy at the position. Nothing they do in other places will matter if they don't.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on October 31, 2023, 07:01:55 PMI don't want to even think about a non-QB in round 1. This deep needs to do whatever it takes to get their top guy at the position. Nothing they do in other places will matter if they don't.
The QBs in this class are either overrated or correctly rated and sub-par. Not interested in any of them.
Quote from: madbadger on October 31, 2023, 05:08:15 PMKareem McKenize was the last really good LT the Giants have had. He was a 1st round pick out of PSU as a LT where he started his career with the Jets. When the Giants signed him they already had Deihl at LT so the flipped him to the right fairly seamlessly. I think it has more to do with the player than anything else.
I think you are right that it has to do with the player. A team has to know that ahead of time that a player can naturally play left handed and right handed. They can't assume all players can freely do that. I think teams more often than not assume it.
Could not disagree more. This is probably the best QB class since 2004. Caleb and Maye are fantastic. McCarthy and Daniels are very intriguing. And then there are other guys too. It is a great group.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 31, 2023, 07:04:25 PMThe QBs in this class are either overrated or correctly rated and sub-par. Not interested in any of them.
This is not true. McKenzie did not play left tackle for the Jets. He was also a third round pick.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeKa20.htm
Quote from: madbadger on October 31, 2023, 05:08:15 PMKareem McKenize was the last really good LT the Giants have had. He was a 1st round pick out of PSU as a LT where he started his career with the Jets. When the Giants signed him they already had Deihl at LT so the flipped him to the right fairly seamlessly. I think it has more to do with the player than anything else.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on October 31, 2023, 07:22:04 PMCould not disagree more. This is probably the best QB class since 2004. Caleb and Maye are fantastic. McCarthy and Daniels are very intriguing. And then there are other guys too. It is a great group.
Williams comes up small in big games and always has. No thanks.
Maybe comes up small in small games. That's a major red flag. Neither of them have the fire I'm looking for out of a franchise QB.
Daniels is not an NFL QB.
Sure. Whatever you say.
Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 31, 2023, 07:32:34 PMWilliams comes up small in big games and always has. No thanks.
Maybe comes up small in small games. That's a major red flag. Neither of them have the fire I'm looking for out of a franchise QB.
Daniels is not an NFL QB.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on October 31, 2023, 08:48:14 PMSure. Whatever you say.
Coming up small in big games won't deter many GMs. The drafted one like that a few years ago.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 31, 2023, 02:59:06 PMI have no problem taking a guy who played RT in college, but given Mad's point let's maybe not use a high first rounder on that.
JC Latham from Alabama is a true RT
The 2024 NFL Draft is a bit of a strange one. Currently, I think the top 10 picks appear to be weighted toward offense instead of defense. Additionally, I believe the top 10 is particularly weak at Edge/DL. The only Edge/DE player I have watched who seems to merit potential top 10 consideration is Jared Verse of FSU. I liked him when I saw him. He plays very physical with good athleticism. Verse is only 6'4" 250 pounds so I do not see him projecting to play DT to replace Leonard Williams. He would be inserted to replace Ojulari if they take him. I think the greater need would be at DT, but I simply don't see one as a worthy top 10 pick.
My guess is the Giants will look to offense in round 1 given the lack of top shelf defensive players who might get picked in top 10. If they don't go QB, then I think round 1 is likely to be a WR either Marvin Harrison if he is available or Keon Coleman. Both would look really good in blue. Pencil in either as a starting X. While Neal has been subpar this season, I just can't see them investing in another OT with a top 10 pick.
Assuming the Giants finish with a top 4-6 pick and given the strengths of the 2024 Draft by position, I think it is going to be pretty easy to narrow the list of potential targets for the Giants.
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 31, 2023, 04:53:07 PMThat post came out sort-of "sideways" because it sounds like you wouldn't want him in the 2nd round, for example (which I know is untrue) when you're really trying to say taking him rather than a player (or position) you like better in the 1st round would in your opinion be a tragic blunder. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on October 31, 2023, 04:53:07 PMThat post came out sort-of "sideways" because it sounds like you wouldn't want him in the 2nd round, for example (which I know is untrue) when you're really trying to say taking him rather than a player (or position) you like better in the 1st round would in your opinion be a tragic blunder. Bob
Exactly! Bowers is very talented but the Giants will be drafting to high in the first round to select a TE as TE just isn't a position that would help enough to get the Giants on a winning track. QB, WR Rusher is where the Giants need to look in the first, imo.
Quote from: sooners56 on November 01, 2023, 12:24:55 PMExactly! Bowers is very talented but the Giants will be drafting to high in the first round to select a TE as TE just isn't a position that would help enough to get the Giants on a winning track. QB, WR Rusher is where the Giants need to look in the first, imo.
Quote from: sooners56 on November 01, 2023, 12:24:55 PMExactly! Bowers is very talented but the Giants will be drafting to high in the first round to select a TE as TE just isn't a position that would help enough to get the Giants on a winning track. QB, WR Rusher is where the Giants need to look in the first, imo.
sooners: Agree 100 percent on all of that, with one possible exception. QB's are a "class" in themselves and I would not even want a QB in the 3rd unless Schoen/Daboll see him as needing a year to get his feet on the ground. When you go for a guy in the high first round you usually get him on the field no later than mid-season of his rookie year. IMO Bob
Quote from: Philosophers on November 01, 2023, 09:00:35 AMThe 2024 NFL Draft is a bit of a strange one. Currently, I think the top 10 picks appear to be weighted toward offense instead of defense. Additionally, I believe the top 10 is particularly weak at Edge/DL. The only Edge/DE player I have watched who seems to merit potential top 10 consideration is Jared Verse of FSU. I liked him when I saw him. He plays very physical with good athleticism. Verse is only 6'4" 250 pounds so I do not see him projecting to play DT to replace Leonard Williams. He would be inserted to replace Ojulari if they take him. I think the greater need would be at DT, but I simply don't see one as a worthy top 10 pick.
My guess is the Giants will look to offense in round 1 given the lack of top shelf defensive players who might get picked in top 10. If they don't go QB, then I think round 1 is likely to be a WR either Marvin Harrison if he is available or Keon Coleman. Both would look really good in blue. Pencil in either as a starting X. While Neal has been subpar this season, I just can't see them investing in another OT with a top 10 pick.
Assuming the Giants finish with a top 4-6 pick and given the strengths of the 2024 Draft by position, I think it is going to be pretty easy to narrow the list of potential targets for the Giants.
Have you watched Laiatu Latu from UCLA? Kid is a monster and unblockable, he lines up all over the line and at linebacker 6'4 265lb he's going to be a guy in the pros that wrecks games.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 01, 2023, 01:38:51 PMHave you watched Laiatu Latu from UCLA? Kid is a monster and unblockable, he lines up all over the line and at linebacker 6'4 265lb he's going to be a guy in the pros that wrecks games.
J: That's what they said about Lawrence Taylor. Is he possibly that good? I only saw one UCLA game so far. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 01, 2023, 01:49:43 PMJ: That's what they said about Lawrence Taylor. Is he possibly that good? I only saw one UCLA game so far. Bob
Nah I mean I wouldn't say LT but he's getting better year on year. 10 sacks last year and he's on pace for 15-16 this year
Also
@Philosophers watch out for Taliese Fuaga the RT from Oregon St. I think he's RT1 and that he'll soar up draft boards to be one of the top lineman in this draft class.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 01, 2023, 01:38:51 PMHave you watched Laiatu Latu from UCLA? Kid is a monster and unblockable, he lines up all over the line and at linebacker 6'4 265lb he's going to be a guy in the pros that wrecks games.
Jess - I have not seen him play. I've seen good press on him.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on October 31, 2023, 07:22:04 PMCould not disagree more. This is probably the best QB class since 2004. Caleb and Maye are fantastic. McCarthy and Daniels are very intriguing. And then there are other guys too. It is a great group.
then we shouldnt have to trade up to get one, right?
Quote from: Philosophers on November 01, 2023, 09:00:35 AMThe 2024 NFL Draft is a bit of a strange one. Currently, I think the top 10 picks appear to be weighted toward offense instead of defense. Additionally, I believe the top 10 is particularly weak at Edge/DL. The only Edge/DE player I have watched who seems to merit potential top 10 consideration is Jared Verse of FSU. I liked him when I saw him. He plays very physical with good athleticism. Verse is only 6'4" 250 pounds so I do not see him projecting to play DT to replace Leonard Williams. He would be inserted to replace Ojulari if they take him. I think the greater need would be at DT, but I simply don't see one as a worthy top 10 pick.
My guess is the Giants will look to offense in round 1 given the lack of top shelf defensive players who might get picked in top 10. If they don't go QB, then I think round 1 is likely to be a WR either Marvin Harrison if he is available or Keon Coleman. Both would look really good in blue. Pencil in either as a starting X. While Neal has been subpar this season, I just can't see them investing in another OT with a top 10 pick.
Assuming the Giants finish with a top 4-6 pick and given the strengths of the 2024 Draft by position, I think it is going to be pretty easy to narrow the list of potential targets for the Giants.
it would be absolutely brutal and probably the coup de grace if schoen picks another tackle that winds up being a bust. at least at another position, it is what it is.
I can't say this is the best Qb class in 25 years because that honor goes to 2004 but this class can easily be equal or better than 2020 which in my opinion is the 2nd best class in 25 years. As a refresher 2020 had Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Hurts, and Love. I think this current class is not only deeper but even more top heavy than 2020 with the real possibility that a couple 2nd/3rd round guys could develop into guys
I think if the Giants want a QB in 2024, they should not take a Browning Nagle 2nd round draft approach, but instead identify their guy in round 1 and go after him. Your QB lasts 12+ years so giving up a draft pick or two is inconsequential if he works out.
Quote from: Philosophers on November 03, 2023, 09:53:02 PMI think if the Giants want a QB in 2024, they should not take a Browning Nagle 2nd round draft approach, but instead identify their guy in round 1 and go after him. Your QB lasts 12+ years so giving up a draft pick or two is inconsequential if he works out.
I completely agree. If they have a first round QB they have a strong view on, they should do absolutely whatever it takes to get him. I will have no problem giving up a boat load to move up to get a guy that Schoen and company strongly believe is the guy.
Getting your Joe Burrow or Josh Allen is worth 10 first rounders. So to give up a couple if they think that's what they're getting is more than worth it to me.
I would
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 03, 2023, 04:44:39 PMthen we shouldnt have to trade up to get one, right?