Big Blue Huddle

we are currently ranked 32nd in basically EVERY single category. yes there have been injuries and personnel issues, but this is as bad as it gets. you never know, sometimes changing things up can create a spark.

He should definitely get his arce out of that booth and on the field with his players.

I want to see how things play out as the line stabilizes

I wonder if he sits in a booth at the practice field.

As the President of the Kevin Gilbride fan club of North America, I declare this Offense broken!

After the season changes should obviously be made.

Been saying he needs to be gone for over a month now.

I get the offensive line injuries and understand how the lack of chemistry up front will kill an offense. He has done very little to call plays to maximize the talents/skills of his players. There were minimal rollouts and plays to move the pocket for Jones. No screens to alleviate the quick pressure up the middle. Very few shots downfield to move the secondary out of the box.

Yeah. He needs to be fired. Maybe he wants to be back in KC now that Bienemy is gone.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 09:41:08 AMBeen saying he needs to be gone for over a month now.

I get the offensive line injuries and understand how the lack of chemistry up front will kill an offense. He has done very little to call plays to maximize the talents/skills of his players. There were minimal rollouts and plays to move the pocket for Jones. No screens to alleviate the quick pressure up the middle. Very few shots downfield to move the secondary out of the box.

Yeah. He needs to be fired. Maybe he wants to be back in KC now that Bienemy is gone.

Daboll should have hired Bienemy. Daboll can finish the season calling the plays and bring in a complimentary OC next year.

I have a different angle. Get out of that comfy warm sky booth and get your ass onto the sidelines and work face to face with your QB and his players while they are off the field. Why isn't he on the sidelines?

Quote from: TDToomer on November 02, 2023, 09:54:18 AMI have a different angle. Get out of that comfy warm sky booth and get your ass onto the sidelines and work face to face with your QB and his players while they are off the field. Why isn't he on the sidelines?

I said that.

I'd love to see what he is as a coordinator when he has his starting quarterback healthy, Barkley healthy and a mediocre offensive line. In all honesty I don't think Andy Reid would be getting much more out of this offense right now.

I voted no.

I think the Giants need to move away from this model of constantly always firing people every two years.

Last year, people were very worried that Kafka was leaving for a HC job and we were lucky he didn't get one.  Now, I'm reading this stuff.

Quote from: nb587 on November 02, 2023, 10:27:40 AMLast year, people were very worried that Kafka was leaving for a HC job and we were lucky he didn't get one.  Now, I'm reading this stuff.

Exactly. The fan base is very reactionary. But our owner has been too.

Quote from: TDToomer on November 02, 2023, 09:54:18 AMI have a different angle. Get out of that comfy warm sky booth and get your ass onto the sidelines and work face to face with your QB and his players while they are off the field. Why isn't he on the sidelines?

Is there any evidence OC's on the sidelines have more success than booth guys?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 10:34:32 AMExactly. The fan base is very reactionary. But our owner has been too.

im usually one to look for some type of silver lining or positive. but you cant argue with results. we are beyond god awful. the season is lost already. i do agree with what someone above posted about finally playing with some type of healthy iteration of the line, and with barkley. i dont mind another game or two. but seriously if we keep putting up sub 20 points every week, something has to give. even last year we could barely put up points.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 02, 2023, 11:00:05 AMim usually one to look for some type of silver lining or positive. but you cant argue with results. we are beyond god awful. the season is lost already. i do agree with what someone above posted about finally playing with some type of healthy iteration of the line, and with barkley. i dont mind another game or two. but seriously if we keep putting up sub 20 points every week, something has to give. even last year we could barely put up points.

What was your view on him at the end of the 2022 season?

Bill Parcell's 1st year as a HC was a 3 win season and much of that record was due to his coaching.  The team he inherited was ascending and borderline playoff ready. Not firing Parcells turned out to be the right move (although George Young may have had different thoughts at that time)

Blaming our OC for idiotic QB play and an OL that has had a different lineup every single game seems really silly to me. Just one year after he was getting head coach interviews. Get him a real QB and some OL stability next year and get back to me.

Quote from: madbadger on November 02, 2023, 10:15:18 AMI'd love to see what he is as a coordinator when he has his starting quarterback healthy, Barkley healthy and a mediocre offensive line. In all honesty I don't think Andy Reid would be getting much more out of this offense right now.

I disagree

Andy has a nose for TDs.... Daboll and Kafka not so much

Giants had one of the top red zone offenses in the league last season. This year has been a disaster. That is on the QB for playing like a cowardly idiot and the OL changing every single week. But sure. Blame the coaches. It is the easy thing to do.

Quote from: BluesCruz on November 02, 2023, 01:50:07 PMI disagree

Andy has a nose for TDs.... Daboll and Kafka not so much

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 10:25:08 AMI voted no.

I think the Giants need to move away from this model of constantly always firing people every two years.

I don't think it's without merit.

Quote from: nb587 on November 02, 2023, 10:27:40 AMLast year, people were very worried that Kafka was leaving for a HC job and we were lucky he didn't get one.  Now, I'm reading this stuff.

Last year he created game plans that Jones could be successful in. This year he seems like he can't adapt to what his players can and can't do.

How do you fire an OC when the HC is offensively minded and approves plays, schemes, formations, etc?

How about firing poor position coaches instead?

There's been excuses all over the place regarding the offense from the line, to AT and JMS injury to Barkley being out, to Jones being pressured too quickly.

Why doesn't Kafka get the same raft of excuses?

He's working with the same players as the rest of the O?

I think the Giants have to stop sacking coaches after 2 years.

Because teams adjusted and Jones can't operate outside of that simple structure. He can't process and consistently falls for trap coverages. That is not on the OC. The QB is a football idiot.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 03:26:33 PMI don't think it's without merit.

Last year he created game plans that Jones could be successful in. This year he seems like he can't adapt to what his players can and can't do.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 03:26:33 PMI don't think it's without merit.

Perhaps not Tim, but I think the problems of this franchise are multi-dimensional and run very deep, and so just blaming and replacing the coach every two years and expecting everything to get better after that is a knee-jerk, surface type move that may be avoiding the bigger issues. My hope is that, despite the current situation this year, we do have the right people in place now. Schoen, though he has made mistakes, strikes me as a competent, hard-working, intelligent GM who has a holistic approach and will continue to improve the organization from top to bottom. And I still like Daboll myself, which I realize is not a popular opinion right now.

Over the past decade I think we have had real issues with the scouting department (likely improved now under Schoen), the training/medical department and the infrastructure therein (clearly still a huge issue), player development (appears to be improving) and to some extent ownership meddling (likely still an issue but possibly improving). We have also clearly done a terrible job hiring coaches and GMs prior to the current regime, which is 100% ownership's fault. So that's actually part of my earlier comment. By wanting to move away from the model of gutting the coaching staff every two years, I'm very much saying we need a more robust hiring process when in fact we do hire. Not just calling Accorsi and Charlie Casserly and being told to hire Dave Gettleman, and then that's the end of it. Or just naming McAdoo to the HC position without having a serious interview process with other candidates. Thankfully, I think for the first time since his father passed away, Mara took the hiring process much more seriously this last time.

I do think we have shown some evidence of evolving on all of this stuff in very recent years, but clearly it is still an ongoing process.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 02, 2023, 05:04:13 PMBecause teams adjusted and Jones can't operate outside of that simple structure. He can't process and consistently falls for trap coverages. That is not on the OC. The QB is a football idiot.

Kinda harsh. I guess he hit his head over the summer?  :-??  :surrender:

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 05:22:39 PMPerhaps not Tim, but I think the problems of this franchise are multi-dimensional and run very deep, and so just blaming and replacing the coach every two years and expecting everything to get better after that is a knee-jerk, surface type move that may be avoiding the bigger issues. My hope is that, despite the current situation this year, we do have the right people in place now. Schoen, though he has made mistakes, strikes me as a competent, hard-working, intelligent GM who has a holistic approach and will continue to improve the organization from top to bottom. And I still like Daboll myself, which I realize is not a popular opinion right now.

Over the past decade I think we have had real issues with the scouting department (likely improved now under Schoen), the training/medical department and the infrastructure therein (clearly still a huge issue), player development (appears to be improving) and to some extent ownership meddling (likely still an issue but possibly improving). We have also clearly done a terrible job hiring coaches and GMs prior to the current regime, which is 100% ownership's fault. So that's actually part of my earlier comment. By wanting to move away from the model of gutting the coaching staff every two years, I'm very much saying we need a more robust hiring process when in fact we do hire. Not just calling Accorsi and Charlie Casserly and being told to hire Dave Gettleman, and then that's the end of it. Or just naming McAdoo to the HC position without having a serious interview process with other candidates. Thankfully, I think for the first time since his father passed away, Mara took the hiring process much more seriously this last time.

I do think we have shown some evidence of evolving on all of this stuff in very recent years, but clearly it is still an ongoing process.

The 2-year thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. And I'm not advocating to replace Daboll. Just Kafka.

I also don't see it as knee-jerk. I'm 100% with you that there are a gaggle of problems. I'm of the mind that once we identify a problem, it needs to be addressed. Kafka is one of them. Jones is another. Fix the problem as quickly as possible. I, for one, am not a fan of blowing the whole thing up. Some things are working, as much as we know now. Others aren't. I'm cool with having Daboll call the offense until he finds a replacement for Kafka.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 05:31:11 PMThe 2-year thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. And I'm not advocating to replace Daboll. Just Kafka.

I also don't see it as knee-jerk. I'm 100% with you that there are a gaggle of problems. I'm of the mind that once we identify a problem, it needs to be addressed. Kafka is one of them. Jones is another. Fix the problem as quickly as possible. I, for one, am not a fan of blowing the whole thing up. Some things are working, as much as we know now. Others aren't. I'm cool with having Daboll call the offense until he finds a replacement for Kafka.

I think we're on the same page philosophically. I'm not advocating holding on to clearly hopeless, non-performing employees or players just for the hell of it. I'm not sold that Kafka has to go, although you know my views on the QB situation. Either way though I agree with the broad points you're making.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 05:34:32 PMI think we're on the same page philosophically. I'm not advocating holding on to clearly hopeless, non-performing employees or players just for the hell of it. I'm not sold that Kafka has to go, although you know my views on the QB situation. Either way though I agree with the broad points you're making.

There were questions about who was responsible for the 2nd-half play calling in the Arizona game. That, coupled with the offensive futility the 2 prior games, gave me the feeling that something was not right with Kafka. After 8 weeks, we have the absolute worst offense in Giants history.

I'm not suggesting that we're going to light up the scoreboard as soon as he cleans out his office. Players still  need to execute. But the OC needs to call plays to put them in the best position to succeed. And I haven't seen that all year.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 05:43:41 PMThere were questions about who was responsible for the 2nd-half play calling in the Arizona game. That, coupled with the offensive futility the 2 prior games, gave me the feeling that something was not right with Kafka. After 8 weeks, we have the absolute worst offense in Giants history.

I'm not suggesting that we're going to light up the scoreboard as soon as he cleans out his office. Players still  need to execute. But the OC needs to call plays to put them in the best position to succeed. And I haven't seen that all year.

I hear you, but did he do a bad job last year too? If so, what is the evidence of that?

If not, is eight games you have been unhappy with out of a total of 25 enough of a reason to fire someone you were perfectly happy with after his first season?

Also, what about all the injuries, including to our two best offensive players (Thomas and Barkley), not to mention our starting QB and starting center? Has Kafka really had a lot to work with this year?

Clearly you are totally entitled to your opinion, I fully respect it, and I'm not even saying I'm right and you're wrong. That could very well not be the case, and I'm aware of that. I'm just curious about your process that led to you arrive at your opinion that Kafka now needs to go ASAP. If you thought he was bad last year too, then there is no need for any further discussion obviously, but I am curious why anyone would have thought that at the end of last season.

He has never been have to do full field processing. So last year they constructed an offense of half field reads and one read and then run. Defenses adjusted and Jones couldn't handle the full field concepts.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 05:25:47 PMKinda harsh. I guess he hit his head over the summer?  :-??  :surrender:

Quote from: BluesCruz on November 02, 2023, 01:50:07 PMI disagree

Andy has a nose for TDs.... Daboll and Kafka not so much

When was the last time Reid had a quarterback like Jones playing behind a revolving door offensive line? The answer is never.

I think Daboll has been more of a disappointment. I mean not knowing Jones was cleared and Gano has serious knee issue. That's a guy who hasn't been in command of his team. He has been committing coaching malpractice.

He was already declared out. He could not have played by league rules. So it wouldn't have mattered of Daboll knew or not.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 02, 2023, 06:48:59 PMHe was already declared out. He could not have played by league rules. So it wouldn't have mattered of Daboll knew or not.

But you cannot deny he hasn't been in control of the team. Jets game was disaster so was Bills game. I have to say Wink has kept the defense going. Daboll is supposedly the offensive guru and some QB whisperer. I don't want the guy to get fired but he should get his head in the game. Leaving his first string QB in the game in a blow out absolute ridiculous with teams basically teeing off.

Meh. His QB has played like xxxx because he has no football IQ. He stayed in the game because he needed the work. Everyone wants to continue to make excuses for this pathetic QB. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken s--t

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 06:00:13 PMI hear you, but did he do a bad job last year too? If so, what is the evidence of that?

If not, is eight games you have been unhappy with out of a total of 25 enough of a reason to fire someone you were perfectly happy with after his first season?

Also, what about all the injuries, including to our two best offensive players (Thomas and Barkley), not to mention our starting QB and starting center? Has Kafka really had a lot to work with this year?

Clearly you are totally entitled to your opinion, I fully respect it, and I'm not even saying I'm right and you're wrong. That could very well not be the case, and I'm aware of that. I'm just curious about your process that led to you arrive at your opinion that Kafka now needs to go ASAP. If you thought he was bad last year too, then there is no need for any further discussion obviously, but I am curious why anyone would have thought that at the end of last season.

I don't think he did a bad job last year. I was looking to see some improvement and progression this season. I know it isn't linear but I certainly did not expect the cliff drop that we're seeing every week.

The offensive line injuries are most definitely a part of it. No two ways about it. But they adjusted by putting other personnel in. Why can't they make adjustments in the protection and play calling? Isn't that on Kafka? He knew enough about Pugh to know that he could play LT. Does he know what his offensive line is good at? He has to know and use that information to design plays around  their strengths instead of sending in plays the guys struggle with. At least in my mind.

Again, I'm not suggesting things will be infinitely better if he's gone. He's far from the only problem offensively.

I agree that judgment should be withheld until we see what he does with a full complement of healthy players. If the offense remains putrid after that, then off with his head!

Quote from: Blue Since '62 on November 02, 2023, 08:58:59 PMI agree that judgment should be withheld until we see what he does with a full complement of healthy players.

And possibly a new QB

There is no hope until we have a new QB.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 09:05:38 PMAnd possibly a new QB

Fire the entire Staff except for Wink :boooo:
Watching the Jets Game, I couldn't believe the Offensive Play Calling.  I mean, how could experienced, highly paid professionals call a Game like this?!?

Once DeVito was in and we had the lead, it was called the right way completely. 7 things had to go wrong in the last 30 seconds and overtime to lose that game. I 100 percent believe in this coaching staff with the exception of the OL and Special Teams coach.

Quote from: Jaime on November 02, 2023, 11:47:11 PMFire the entire Staff except for Wink :boooo:
Watching the Jets Game, I couldn't believe the Offensive Play Calling.  I mean, how could experienced, highly paid professionals call a Game like this?!?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 11:29:40 AMWhat was your view on him at the end of the 2022 season?

Thought he did well with what he had. was creative, smart, and aggressive. put on a good smoke and mirrors show. was happy to see jones in a system that appeared to work, and get a 2nd year with it. problem is, kafka didnt appear to make any adjustments this year and expected everything that worked last year to just work this year. i get the talent level thing, but jesus. not one FULL game this year have we looked remotely competent.

Quote from: T200 on November 02, 2023, 05:43:41 PMThere were questions about who was responsible for the 2nd-half play calling in the Arizona game. That, coupled with the offensive futility the 2 prior games, gave me the feeling that something was not right with Kafka. After 8 weeks, we have the absolute worst offense in Giants history.

I'm not suggesting that we're going to light up the scoreboard as soon as he cleans out his office. Players still  need to execute. But the OC needs to call plays to put them in the best position to succeed. And I haven't seen that all year.

correct. im sure we cant do MUCH more with someone else calling plays, but hey. it happens. all the time. why not at least try? he's done NOTHING to show (at least this year), that he deserves to keep the job going forward.

Quote from: Giantleap56 on November 02, 2023, 06:43:56 PMI think Daboll has been more of a disappointment. I mean not knowing Jones was cleared and Gano has serious knee issue. That's a guy who hasn't been in command of his team. He has been committing coaching malpractice.

i agree. i am willing to give him benefit of doubt considering its only year 2 and he's learning as he goes. but we need to start seeing results and wins NOW. its been bad.