https://x.com/ralphvacchiano/status/1720183616070647873?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Giants sign Randy Bullock
https://x.com/profootballtalk/status/1720184913196917186?s=46&t=AA9Ptl-VPYK0JnuHE-oAWA
I wish the Giants had brought in another kicker in the middle of last week to at least allow for the option of Gano making a game-time decision he wasn't going to be able to play. I realize that I'm saying that with the benefit of hindsight, but to not have had a plan B seems like an unforced error given the significance of the injury. I know everyone is blaming this loss on Daboll and wants to fire him now etc, but if Gano makes that 35 yarder the we win that game, and nobody would be criticizing how Daboll chose to manage it. Not to mention the other FG (albeit that one was a lot tougher and plenty of kickers might have missed that one in those conditions). I have to think if Bullock is our kicker last week and everything else plays out the same way, we're 3-5 right now heading to Vegas play the hapless Raiders.
Sorry Rich, didn't see your thread - must have posted at same time. please delete mine
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 05:08:37 PMI wish the Giants had brought in another kicker in the middle of last week to at least allow for the option of Gano making a game-time decision he wasn't going to be able to play. I realize that I'm saying that with the benefit of hindsight, but to not have had a plan B seems like an unforced error given the significance of the injury. I know everyone is blaming this loss on Daboll and wants to fire him now etc, but if Gano makes that 35 yarder the we win that game, and nobody would be criticizing how Daboll chose to manage it. Not to mention the other FG (albeit that one was a lot tougher and plenty of kickers might have missed that one in those conditions). I have to think if Bullock is our kicker last week and everything else plays out the same way, we're 3-5 right now heading to Vegas play the hapless Raiders.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2023, 05:08:37 PMI wish the Giants had brought in another kicker in the middle of last week to at least allow for the option of Gano making a game-time decision he wasn't going to be able to play. I realize that I'm saying that with the benefit of hindsight, but to not have had a plan B seems like an unforced error given the significance of the injury. I know everyone is blaming this loss on Daboll and wants to fire him now etc, but if Gano makes that 35 yarder the we win that game, and nobody would be criticizing how Daboll chose to manage it. Not to mention the other FG (albeit that one was a lot tougher and plenty of kickers might have missed that one in those conditions). I have to think if Bullock is our kicker last week and everything else plays out the same way, we're 3-5 right now heading to Vegas play the hapless Raiders.
I completely agree with you. A knee issue on a planting leg completely takes away your ability to fully swing your body's core and kicking leg into the ball which is what we witnessed from Gano this past weekend. You just can't muscle it because you compromise your consistency in your leg swing.
It is better he have the surgery now in order to give himself the best chance to return as close to 100% next season. Not sure what procedure he is having performed, but I wish him well in that it is successful and that he is in rehabilitation very soon.
Peace!
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 02, 2023, 05:10:15 PMSorry Rich, didn't see your thread - must have posted at same time. please delete mine
No worries, Ed. I just merged the two
How does a multi billion dollar organization take unnecessary gambles like this? This should have been a concern a week ago. The backup kicker should have been on the practice squad. The medical team should have given an accurate report and we don't know if they did or didn't. Somebody should be fired over this.
As for Daboll, I can absolve him of the first kick but I can't of the second kick if he didn't speak with his ST Coach at halftime. And if he did and didn't get an accurate Accessment, then that Coach needs to go as he should have a month ago.
I'm sure Gano told them it was manageable and I'm also sure the coaches monitored his practice kicks all week.
If he was missing chippies in practice, or if the kickoffs weren't going into the end zone (as they did in the game), they would have made the Bullock move last week. This is 20:20 hindsight.
Quote from: Gman329 on November 02, 2023, 05:42:00 PMI'm sure Gano told them it was manageable and I'm also sure the coaches monitored his practice kicks all week.
If he was missing chippies in practice, or if the kickoffs weren't going into the end zone (as they did in the game), they would have made the Bullock move last week. This is 20:20 hindsight.
I really don't think it entirely is. This was going to be a low scoring slug-fest in bad conditions. Everyone and their brother was predicting that, and it turned out to be exactly what happened. Knowing that it was going to be that kind of game, you have every reason to want to feel like you're going to have the best kicking game possible. Knowing that your kicker has an injury on his plant leg, even if he says he is going to be ok, it just seems like such a simple thing to get a PS kicker and give yourself the optionality. I think not doing so was an unforced error, not just 20/20 hindsight. Just because Gano said he was ok doesn't mean you don't buy yourself some cheap insurance, which is what such a move would have been.
It wasn't jusy Gano telling them he was OK, there was visual evidence in practice. None of us saw those practice kicks but I have to believe there was nothing that raised concern or doubt. They really aren't the blithering idiots some make them out to be. Sometimes, sht just happens.
Another Medical failure. Sports Medicine at its finest.
Quote from: Gman329 on November 02, 2023, 06:21:50 PMIt wasn't jusy Gano telling them he was OK, there was visual evidence in practice. None of us saw those practice kicks but I have to believe there was nothing that raised concern or doubt. They really aren't the blithering idiots some make them out to be. Sometimes, sht just happens.
Nobody called anyone a blithering idiot. I just said it appears to have been an unforced error in this case. Smart, competent, professional people make unforced errors sometimes. And the Giants, I think we can agree, have made plenty of them over the years. I'm not sure why anyone would think they're immune to mistakes or miscalculations.
From Lawrence Tynes:
Need to settle down on the blame game here with Gano and the Giants coaches, trainers, etc. This is the slippery slope when guys have to play to keep their jobs because they don't have fully guaranteed contracts.
This is how this would have went down last week.
He kicked in practice, said he felt fine.
Kicked in pre game, said he felt fine.
In Game: Made one FG, missed one FG, made one PAT, missed one FG and hit 2 TB's out of 3 kickoffs.
Pro Players push themselves to the limit to keep their jobs, they are wired different. Once Graham saw his performance affecting the team he had to speak up.
Hope Graham has a successful surgery and comes back as the All-Pro kicker he is. 🙏🏻 #NYGiants
https://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1720206429594759359?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 02, 2023, 06:46:44 PMFrom Lawrence Tynes:
Need to settle down on the blame game here with Gano and the Giants coaches, trainers, etc. This is the slippery slope when guys have to play to keep their jobs because they don't have fully guaranteed contracts.
This is how this would have went down last week.
He kicked in practice, said he felt fine.
Kicked in pre game, said he felt fine.
In Game: Made one FG, missed one FG, made one PAT, missed one FG and hit 2 TB's out of 3 kickoffs.
Pro Players push themselves to the limit to keep their jobs, they are wired different. Once Graham saw his performance affecting the team he had to speak up.
Hope Graham has a successful surgery and comes back as the All-Pro kicker he is. 🙏🏻 #NYGiants
https://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1720206429594759359?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Spot on.
Remember, this guy is an All Pro and holds himself to a ridiculously high standard above your average, run of the mill, NFL kicker (if that term is appropriate, which all 32 would tell me it isn't).
He did the right thing by electing to go on IR and have the surgery now so he'll be ready for next season. That's about all he can do and it is unfortunate that it came to that in the first place. In my opinion, it is no different than me going in, this past May, for a total knee replacement (NOTE: my planting leg). Six months on, I completed all my rehab, and I'm going at the world with this thing; albeit, limited than my original knee because of its mechanical limits. Let's hope Gano doesn't have to deal with any of that.
Peace!
Quote from: kartanoman on November 02, 2023, 07:02:24 PMSpot on.
Remember, this guy is an All Pro and holds himself to a ridiculously high standard above your average, run of the mill, NFL kicker (if that term is appropriate, which all 32 would tell me it isn't).
He did the right thing by electing to go on IR and have the surgery now so he'll be ready for next season. That's about all he can do and it is unfortunate that it came to that in the first place. In my opinion, it is no different than me going in, this past May, for a total knee replacement (NOTE: my planting leg). Six months on, I completed all my rehab, and I'm going at the world with this thing; albeit, limited than my original knee because of its mechanical limits. Let's hope Gano doesn't have to deal with any of that.
Peace!
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 02, 2023, 06:46:44 PMFrom Lawrence Tynes:
Need to settle down on the blame game here with Gano and the Giants coaches, trainers, etc. This is the slippery slope when guys have to play to keep their jobs because they don't have fully guaranteed contracts.
This is how this would have went down last week.
He kicked in practice, said he felt fine.
Kicked in pre game, said he felt fine.
In Game: Made one FG, missed one FG, made one PAT, missed one FG and hit 2 TB's out of 3 kickoffs.
Pro Players push themselves to the limit to keep their jobs, they are wired different. Once Graham saw his performance affecting the team he had to speak up.
Hope Graham has a successful surgery and comes back as the All-Pro kicker he is. 🙏🏻 #NYGiants
https://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1720206429594759359?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 02, 2023, 06:46:44 PMFrom Lawrence Tynes:
Need to settle down on the blame game here with Gano and the Giants coaches, trainers, etc. This is the slippery slope when guys have to play to keep their jobs because they don't have fully guaranteed contracts.
This is how this would have went down last week.
He kicked in practice, said he felt fine.
Kicked in pre game, said he felt fine.
In Game: Made one FG, missed one FG, made one PAT, missed one FG and hit 2 TB's out of 3 kickoffs.
Pro Players push themselves to the limit to keep their jobs, they are wired different. Once Graham saw his performance affecting the team he had to speak up.
Hope Graham has a successful surgery and comes back as the All-Pro kicker he is. 🙏🏻 #NYGiants
https://x.com/lt4kicks/status/1720206429594759359?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ
Quote from: kartanoman on November 02, 2023, 07:02:24 PMSpot on.
Remember, this guy is an All Pro and holds himself to a ridiculously high standard above your average, run of the mill, NFL kicker (if that term is appropriate, which all 32 would tell me it isn't).
He did the right thing by electing to go on IR and have the surgery now so he'll be ready for next season. That's about all he can do and it is unfortunate that it came to that in the first place. In my opinion, it is no different than me going in, this past May, for a total knee replacement (NOTE: my planting leg). Six months on, I completed all my rehab, and I'm going at the world with this thing; albeit, limited than my original knee because of its mechanical limits. Let's hope Gano doesn't have to deal with any of that.
Peace!
Nice try Lawrence for going to bat for a fellow kicker--I believe Gano got most of his extension guaranteed.
Having said that I am sorry about Gano--for most of the season he has been one of a few bright spots
Dumpster Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 02, 2023, 07:08:58 PMNice try Lawrence for going to bat for a fellow kicker--I believe Gano got most of his extension guaranteed.
Having said that I am sorry about Gano--for most of the season he has been one of a few bright spots
Dumpster Dan
Yes, his 2023 and 2024 salary plus his 2024 roster bonus and signing bonus fully guaranteed.
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 02, 2023, 07:08:58 PMNice try Lawrence for going to bat for a fellow kicker--I believe Gano got most of his extension guaranteed.
Having said that I am sorry about Gano--for most of the season he has been one of a few bright spots
Dumpster Dan
Spot on, Dumpster. Pro Players are also not wired differently; lots of people push themselves to keep thier jobs...that's called life. They push themselves because the notoriety, and cheers from thousands of fans is a drug they don't want to give up.
Really annoying. The Giants win that game against the Jets if they have a functioning kicker. I don't understand the mindset of knowingly playing an injured player who can decide games.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 03, 2023, 01:18:03 AMSpot on, Dumpster. Pro Players are also not wired differently; lots of people push themselves to keep thier jobs...that's called life. They push themselves because the notoriety, and cheers from thousands of fans is a drug they don't want to give up.
King,
I fully agree with this in spirit, and broadly speaking I think it's 100% true.
However, I think some roles in sports are different from others, and some injuries are different from others. If you perform a role where you do basically just one thing, but you need to have full range of motion and full use of your body to do it, that's different from say a defensive end or RB playing through some pain. The margin for error is bigger in the latter. In other words, an elite defensive end who has a mild sprained ankle or some sort of knee pain is going to play through that. He may only be 80%, but at 80% he is still a value-add for the team and still superior to whatever player would replace him if he sat. Barkley is also an example of a player who does this routinely.
A kicker at 80% is not good enough though, even if he's normally a very good kicker. Especially when the injury is on the plant leg. And btw I doubt Gano was even 80%. Let me be very clear - I am not really faulting Gano on this. Athletes are conditioned to be tough and determined and to want to do whatever it takes to help their team, and it's human nature for someone like that to believe he can play through an injury. And nobody wants to be the guy who isn't available in a huge game. I just think the team could have hedged its bets a little bit more. It wouldn't have been difficult or costly in any way to bring a Randy Bullock type in in the middle of last week for insurance. They knew Gano had an injury in his plant leg. Yes, he said he felt fine. Still, why not bring another kicker in, just in case? What happens if Gano wakes up on Sunday AM and suddenly it feels worse? What was their plan for that?
If there is fault to be found, I will point the finger at ST Coach Thomas McGaughey Jr. Kickers produce very visible results that can be seen in practice, it can be seen in warmups, and it can be seen in any sort of tests the team devises. If the kicker was up to a sloppy low low-scoring game where a FG could be the margin between winning or losing, the ST coach should have been the one to make the call on how ready his kicker is.
https://x.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1720479592836977142?s=20