I was talking to a non-football fan after the game. I was telling them that my team lost and my starting QB got hurt. I said the injury will likely spur the Giants to get a new QB.
The response I got was "Won't they just break the new QB?"
That was a very tough question to hear because I fear the answer could be yes.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:28:24 AMI was talking to a non-football fan after the game. I was telling them that my team lost and my starting QB got hurt. I said the injury will likely spur the Giants to get a new QB.
The response I got was "Won't they just break the new QB?"
That was a very tough question to hear because I fear the answer could be yes.
Rich: Probably not, because at least they have a few OL and WR pieces in place already, whereas when Jones was drafted they basically took him "first" with the intent of "building around him."
What they failed to consider was that the league was changing right before their eyes but "stodgy-central" was still trapped in the past, relying on the "well-established" way of doing things (as exemplified by Lombardi).
These days, you get your QB last or almost last, after you have a decent OL and at least one starting-caliber WR. It's a "money thing." You can't plan to sit your franchise QB a year or two. He as to start, at worse, in the middle of his first season. The money they pay QB's these days just doesn't "add up" otherwise.
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 08:34:34 AMRich: Probably not, because at least they have a few OL and WR pieces in place already, whereas when Jones was drafted they basically took him "first" with the intent of "building around him."
What they failed to consider was that the league was changing right before their eyes but "stodgy-central" was still trapped in the past, relying on the "well-established" way of doing things (as exemplified by Lombardi).
These days, you get your QB last or almost last, after you have a decent OL and at least one starting-caliber WR. It's a "money thing." You can't plan to sit your franchise QB a year or two. He as to start, at worse, in the middle of his first season. The money they pay QB's these days just doesn't "add up" otherwise.
Bob
The problem is, that the Giants will likely have to spend a good amount of draft capital to acquire their new QB, which means they will be unlikely to have the needed capital to upgrade the O-line and find a true number one WR.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:37:19 AMThe problem is, that the Giants will likely have to spend a good amount of draft capital to acquire their new QB, which means they will be unlikely to have the needed capital to upgrade the O-line and find a true number one WR.
You anticipate them winning a lot of games with Devito starting? Honestly they should let him play out the string and likely lose every game. 2 wins might be enough to get them Caleb Williams. But they certainly won't be lower than 3 so they could easily trade from there or sit tight and take whoever they like best from Maye or McCarthy or Penix and still keep their picks.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 06, 2023, 08:44:15 AMYou anticipate them winning a lot of games with Devito starting? Honestly they should let him play out the string and likely lose every game. 2 wins might be enough to get them Caleb Williams. But they certainly won't be lower than 3 so they could easily trade from there or sit tight and take whoever they like best from Maye or McCarthy or Penix and still keep their picks.
Whatever QB they pick, looking the part will be the deciding factor. I wouldn't look any further than McCarthy.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 06, 2023, 08:44:15 AMYou anticipate them winning a lot of games with Devito starting? Honestly they should let him play out the string and likely lose every game. 2 wins might be enough to get them Caleb Williams. But they certainly won't be lower than 3 so they could easily trade from there or sit tight and take whoever they like best from Maye or McCarthy or Penix and still keep their picks.
I see a lot of QB needy teams with similar records to the Giants and as likely to lose as many games as the Giants.
I suspect that the Bears will be sitting in the catbird seat in terms of auctioning off a prime draft selection to get one of the top QBs and the Giants among the bidders.
I genuinely don't think the Giants will need to bid to get one of the QBs this year.
I don't see them picking any lower than 2nd in next year's draft.
Whilst Carolina are a 1 win team, they will likely put something together before the end of the season and end up with more wins than the Giants, so that's gonna impact the Bear's postiion from them. The Bears might be as bad as the Giants the Bears will get Fields back at some point and he's fighting for his future.
The Giants simply cannot move the ball and without it, couple with a sieve of a defence vs the Raiders, I simply don't see the Giants winning many games, if any at all, for the remainder of the season.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 06, 2023, 08:56:28 AMI genuinely don't think the Giants will need to bid to get one of the QBs this year.
I don't see them picking any lower than 2nd in next year's draft.
Whilst Carolina are a 1 win team, they will likely put something together before the end of the season and end up with more wins than the Giants, so that's gonna impact the Bear's postiion from them. The Bears might be as bad as the Giants the Bears will get Fields back at some point and he's fighting for his future.
The Giants simply cannot move the ball and without it, couple with a sieve of a defence vs the Raiders, I simply don't see the Giants winning many games, if any at all, for the remainder of the season.
Or Tommy Boy balls out and he's the next franchise qb. 😂
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 06, 2023, 09:07:36 AMOr Tommy Boy balls out and he's the next franchise qb. 😂
I guess we will find out in 60 games or so. Or have we magically moved onto a quicker evaluative process? :D
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:37:19 AMThe problem is, that the Giants will likely have to spend a good amount of draft capital to acquire their new QB, which means they will be unlikely to have the needed capital to upgrade the O-line and find a true number one WR.
Rich: That's the Gettleman argument, and I personally believe it's time for the Giants to enter the 21st century. Finish (by free-agency or draft or both) the OL to the coaches' satisfaction, get your hopefully elite number-one wide receiver and draft your QB in 2025. But then again, what do I know... Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:37:19 AMThe problem is, that the Giants will likely have to spend a good amount of draft capital to acquire their new QB, which means they will be unlikely to have the needed capital to upgrade the O-line and find a true number one WR.
They screwed up by giving Jones the contract. They put themselves in this mess. And no, they won't break other QBs...at least no more than QBs get broken all the time in this league.
Quote from: katkavage on November 06, 2023, 09:36:34 AMThey screwed up by giving Jones the contract. They put themselves in this mess. And no, they won't break other QBs...at least no more than QBs get broken all the time in this league.
I would argue the problem wasn't the contract; it was the failure to provide adequate protection for their now big-ticket QB.
I would argue that they had two first round picks on the line as well as a second rounder. I would also argue that the QB never really showed he was worthy being considered "big ticket."
Quote from: katkavage on November 06, 2023, 09:45:41 AMI would argue that they had two first round picks on the line as well as a second rounder. I would also argue that the QB never really showed he was worthy being considered "big ticket."
Wasn't Ereck Flowers a first-round pick? The round a player was taken doesn't always equate to quality.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 09:43:12 AMI would argue the problem wasn't the contract; it was the failure to provide adequate protection for their now big-ticket QB.
Rich: IMO you AND katkavage are both correct. I would combine the two arguments and say that at least they didn't sign him for more than two years. It could have been a lot worse. The team tried to take IMO a "middle-of-the-road" approach (already stuck with having Jones) and lost their gamble. Remember, it was not all on the team... several of the players (like Neal) have disappoint this season so far, so that didn't help things at all. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 06, 2023, 09:32:12 AMRich: That's the Gettleman argument, and I personally believe it's time for the Giants to enter the 21st century. Finish (by free-agency or draft or both) the OL to the coaches' satisfaction, get your hopefully elite number-one wide receiver and draft your QB in 2025. But then again, what do I know... Bob
Agree. A team is built on smart decisions with CAP space and draft capital. Having already committed something like $35 million in CAP space to the QB position it would be absurd to then commit a huge amount of draft capital to the QB position. Because, if you do that how do you build a quality team around the QB position? You don't because you don't have the resources. Rinse and repeat.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 06, 2023, 08:47:43 AMI see a lot of QB needy teams with similar records to the Giants and as likely to lose as many games as the Giants.
I suspect that the Bears will be sitting in the catbird seat in terms of auctioning off a prime draft selection to get one of the top QBs and the Giants among the bidders.
It's likely that the Bears will be in the cat bird seat but they also play Carolina and Arizona the second half of the season. So their pick may actually be higher than it is right now. The pick that they got from Carolina has a better chance of staying where it is but the Panthers aren't playing for draft position and aren't likely to roll over the rest of the way. I would be surprised if they managed an upset or two but I also wouldn't be surprised if they lost every game going forward.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 06, 2023, 10:58:44 AMAgree. A team is built on smart decisions with CAP space and draft capital. Having already committed something like $35 million in CAP space to the QB position it would be absurd to then commit a huge amount of draft capital to the QB position. Because, if you do that how do you build a quality team around the QB position? You don't because you don't have the resources. Rinse and repeat.
Ooops, I understated the problem. They have
47 million in committed CAP space for the QB position. Which makes my point more acute.