Fair or not? Does this effect his draft position? What is your thoughts? Is he strong enough to handle the media in Gotham?
Out of all of my years watching college and professional football, I've never seen a starting QB, let alone a HEISMAN winner, run off to the stands, jump the wall to cry on his mother's shoulders.
https://nypost.com/2023/11/08/sports/crying-caleb-williams-aint-gonna-make-it-with-giants-wfan-host/
He's just not crying, he's sobbing. He wants to go home and cuddle his dog
Nonsense. Eli cried. People that show emotion and care are who you want on your team. Caleb would be a great Giant.
Quote from: brownelvis54 on November 10, 2023, 02:10:41 PMFair or not? Does this effect his draft position? What is your thoughts? Is he strong enough to handle the media in Gotham?
Out of all of my years watching college and professional football, I've never seen a starting QB, let alone a HEISMAN winner, run off to the stands, jump the wall to cry on his mother's shoulders.
https://nypost.com/2023/11/08/sports/crying-caleb-williams-aint-gonna-make-it-with-giants-wfan-host/
i dont think its a good look. he SCREAMS entitled spoiled attention seeking millenial. the nails, the crying, the ignorance of either wanting ownership of a team and or not knowing thats not allowed... idk man. it doesnt scream leader to me. it doesnt scream strong enough to handle the most intense media market in the league. i have other concerns too, like his size, his proneness to turnovers, his dancing in the pocket like a member of nsync.. i just dont think thatll work in the nfl like it does in college. maybe it works for mahomes, but mahomes is a big solid dude. caleb cant take the hits our oline will subject him to. he might wind up being a great one, and if somehow falls to us, fine. but if we mortgage our future on this guy i cant say i'll love it.
I love watching him play. But this is NY... Snowflakes need not apply. We got sick of OBJ. Don't need a diva at QB. He'd last a New York minute...
NB: I'm 52. I can't be dealing with this "woke" , "in touch with his feelings " BS. Just give me a f*cking QB that can play, has nutz that need a wheelbarrow to carry 'em, is hard as nails on the outside and that you win because of. I'm talking Simms and Eli levels of toughness here!
Its not just crying, athletes cry... but the way he walked over to his mom, hopped the fence, and laid into her arms and bawled uncontrollably, was a whole different level. THEN, to say he wants to cuddle with his dog and watch some shows, saying this out loud to the nationally televised media? There's something there NFL teams have to take a look at.
If this was on Twitter I would unleash on this nonsense. But I will refrain from doing so out of respect for the people here who run this site. I am just going to refrain.
I am praying that we get Caleb Williams. He is a unique talent. Nothing is ever guaranteed obviously, but I think his potential is sky high.
Seems like another potential Odell but at the QB position. Not sure I want that.
I just want a franchise QB, but heard his performances in big games and against good defenses aren't so great. I will start watching college.
A real franchise QB is needed and I think this team will turn around much faster than Jones' supporters realize. But I don't want the next Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold either. I would be cool sliding back slightly to add more talent and still snag a QB.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 10, 2023, 03:08:06 PMI am praying that we get Caleb Williams. He is a unique talent. Nothing is ever guaranteed obviously, but I think his potential is sky high.
I live in Los Angeles and watch tons of UCLA and USC games. I wish I saw what you see. Looking at his stats, he under performs playing teams with the top 25 defenses. His body language when losing is concerning. They way you act when losing is important, but the way you carry yourself when losing speaks volumes. Talent? Yeah...he does have gifts, but so did Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Jay Cutler etc....talent is only part of the equation, talent and mental toughness...I just dont know
You cry for different reasons. Navy SEALs cry. You telling me they can't handle NY? Frankly, NYers mask toughness with anger and we all know how angry NYers are. It's false bravado. Put them in a car broken down at night in the winter alone on the I-90 in Montana and they'd be screaming for their Mommas.
I am not throwing out Caleb Williams for that. My question on his demeanor was that during one particularly bad game, he seemed a bit sullen and sat alone. He did not try to sit and rally his troops.
Quote from: StompYouOT on November 10, 2023, 03:28:06 PMI just want a franchise QB, but heard his performances in big games and against good defenses aren't so great. I will start watching college.
A real franchise QB is needed and I think this team will turn around much faster than Jones' supporters realize. But I don't want the next Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold either. I would be cool sliding back slightly to add more talent and still snag a QB.
Watch: USC QB Caleb Williams fumbles the football while trying to evade a sack, resulting in his 30th career fumbleThat was the 30th fumble committed by the Trojans quarterback in his CFB career so far, the most in FBS since 2021. Nonetheless, the Huskies took advantage of the turnover and registered a touchdown to take a 7-point lead just before the end of the 1st half. The Huskies had a great second quarter as they completely outplayed the Trojans and scored 28 points in one quarter.
https://firstsportz.com/nfl-news-caleb-williams-fumbles-football/
The heart wants what the heart wants, even if it has to overlook red flags to get it.
Quote from: Philosophers on November 10, 2023, 03:35:56 PMFrankly, NYers mask toughness with anger and we all know how angry NYers are. It's false bravado. Put them in a car broken down at night in the winter alone on the I-90 in Montana and they'd be screaming for their Mommas.
Sure, let's just make broad, sweeping, ridiculous, and totally insulting generalizations about a huge group of people based entirely on where they happen to call home.
I'm a born and raised New Yorker and proud of it. I know plenty of amazing people here. Normally I would consider a remark like this to be unfairly prejudicial and offensive, but this one happens to be so unbelievably ignorant and stupid that it's more comedic to me than anything else.
I also find it ironic, because anyone who just belittles entire groups of people without any sort of provocation or sound rationale is more likely the one with the anger problem than those he is belittling.
It's certainly going to be discussed in his interviews and it will be considered in his evaluation for many teams if not all. I don't know enough about him yet to make any definitive statements as to his resilience and intestinal fortitude. He's a gifted Athlete among some inferior talent but the game speeds up exponentially at this level. He's still going to be drafted in the top three when all is said and done.
USC doesn't have the talent people think they do. They have a good RB, and that's it. The defense is horrible as is the offense the only person they have is Caleb Williams. I don't know that they win 2+ games the past two seasons without him.
With that being said it's a little much.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 10, 2023, 03:47:55 PMSure, let's just make broad, sweeping, ridiculous, and totally insulting generalizations about a huge group of people based entirely on where they happen to call home.
I'm a born and raised New Yorker and proud of it. I know plenty of amazing people here. Normally I would consider a remark like this to be unfairly prejudicial and offensive, but this one happens to be so unbelievably ignorant and stupid that it's more comedic to me than anything else.
I also find it ironic, because anyone who just belittles entire groups of people without any sort of provocation or sound rationale is more likely the one with the anger problem than those he is belittling.
I was born and raised there and lived/worked half of my career in NYC. It's not like I have not experienced it. Obviously not saying everyone and I know you know that.
Tell me what Giants fans think of Philadelphia Eagles fans or LA fans. Any generalizations there?
Quote from: Philosophers on November 10, 2023, 05:19:51 PMI was born and raised there and lived/worked half of my career in NYC. It's not like I have not experienced it. Obviously not saying everyone and I know you know that.
Tell me what Giants fans think of Philadelphia Eagles fans or LA fans. Any generalizations there?
I would say there is a difference between two rival fanbases not liking each other given each supports a team the other hates, and making huge generalizations about millions of people living in a particular place. Given New York is one of the most diverse large cities in the world, by definition there are all kinds of different people and I would push back hard on the claim that the predominant trait is cowardice masquerading as false bravado. New Yorkers have exhibited bona fide bravery and backbone on countless occasions, usually when the stakes are highest.
I will give you that we're not the best drivers, so maybe your example about the broken down car has a whiff of merit in that sense.
I have no clue what Giants fans think of LA Rams or Chargers fans. I didn't realize anyone cared about them or had a strong opinion.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 10, 2023, 05:40:42 PMI would say there is a difference between two rival fanbases not liking each other given each supports a team the other hates, and making huge generalizations about millions of people living in a particular place. Given New York is one of the most diverse large cities in the world, by definition there are all kinds of different people and I would push back hard on the claim that the predominant trait is cowardice masquerading as false bravado. New Yorkers have exhibited bona fide bravery and backbone on countless occasions, usually when the stakes are highest.
I will give you that we're not the best drivers, so maybe your example about the broken down car has a whiff of merit in that sense.
I have no clue what Giants fans think of LA Rams or Chargers fans. I didn't realize anyone cared about them or had a strong opinion.
Man I used to think New Yorkers were bad drivers. Until I moved to Kentucky.
As far as the crying goes, I could not care any less. I've seen people handle stressful and exciting things many different ways. Violence, anger, excitement, poise. Not everyone is the same. I'm not going to judge somebody I don't know based off of the emotion he showed after a tough loss.
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He just doesn't seem like the type of guy Mara would allow to be the face of the franchise.
Not a face of the franchise type comments have an undertone I find disturbing.
Quote from: AYM on November 10, 2023, 09:40:09 PMHe just doesn't seem like the type of guy Mara would allow to be the face of the franchise.
And that right there, if true, is why the Giants can never be an elite franchise if he makes those kind of calls.
At least he gives a crap. I'll take a QB that cares that much over one that can immediately forget any day. He dragged that team kicking and screaming to the brink of a huge win almost single handedly and if he could have gotten even the slightest bit of help from his defense at any point they probably do win. Thanks to him. It's gotta be exhausting and frustrating.
The game was over. It wasn't like he was sobbing midway through the 3rd quarter. He gave it everything he had and when it was over he got emotional. The Giants would be lucky to have him on the team next year.
I don't know enough of the guy or the incident to comment meaningfully.
Generally, I have no issue with sports people showing emotion.
I've cried plenty times watching the Giants, usually after a win.
What concerns me about this specific scenario is, this guy is the team leader.
After a tough loss, his thought should be about his teammates and how they are.
"Heads up guys, that was a great effort but we came up short, we go again next week." Or something along those lines.
Now, I say that without knowing everything, but while it's OK to be emotional, as a leader his first duty is to his teammates.
th
Quote from: brownelvis54 on November 10, 2023, 03:38:00 PMWatch: USC QB Caleb Williams fumbles the football while trying to evade a sack, resulting in his 30th career fumble
That was the 30th fumble committed by the Trojans quarterback in his CFB career so far, the most in FBS since 2021. Nonetheless, the Huskies took advantage of the turnover and registered a touchdown to take a 7-point lead just before the end of the 1st half. The Huskies had a great second quarter as they completely outplayed the Trojans and scored 28 points in one quarter.
https://firstsportz.com/nfl-news-caleb-williams-fumbles-football/
this is one of my bigger concerns about him. these fumbles happen to him when hes dancing around like a backup michael jackson dancer. if its that bad in college football, against teams who 99% of guys wont make the nfl, you can rest assured it will be WAY worse in the NFL. We all hated jones for his fumbling problem early in his career right? why on earth would you salivate over the guy with the MOST fumbles in college football. I just dont get that.
Quote from: AYM on November 10, 2023, 09:40:09 PMHe just doesn't seem like the type of guy Mara would allow to be the face of the franchise.
Can you be more specific? Williams has no disciplinary history or any other significant problems. He's been a star on the field. He seems personable. I don't get where the negativity is coming from. I'd love to know.
When I hear "doesn't seem like the type Mara would want to be the face of the franchise" about someone who has done nothing wrong (at least that anyone knows about), I have to say, it makes me wonder what the person making that claim is really thinking.
This is the last QB prospect I'd want to put in front of the New York media. Hell, I'm not sure he could handle the Twin Cities media--and the Vikings fans here have internalized losing. It's much harder to swallow when you root for a franchise in the city of cities that has won eight total championships and expects more in the future.
I'm not sure Williams is the guy, but these are foolish assumptions. It's amateurish evaluation like this (he cried after a loss) that help other teams find great players who slip because of those evaluations that have nothing to do with the talent on the field.
Since we are throwing out generalizations here's some more. Crying is something I expect in soccer not football. Football players can hide their emotions in their helmets and most don't want to been seen showing themselves as fragile or bothered. In Soccer it's accepted like Neymar of Brazil whether it is a win or loss.
Philly fans are borderline criminals
LA fans are too passive and can't even give the Chargers a home field advantage
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 11, 2023, 08:43:10 AMth
this is one of my bigger concerns about him. these fumbles happen to him when hes dancing around like a backup michael jackson dancer. if its that bad in college football, against teams who 99% of guys wont make the nfl, you can rest assured it will be WAY worse in the NFL. We all hated jones for his fumbling problem early in his career right? why on earth would you salivate over the guy with the MOST fumbles in college football. I just dont get that.
Fumbles can be fixed. Exhibit #1: Tiki Barber.
If the Giants have a chance to draft Caleb Williams and don't, it would be a monumental travesty!
Quote from: sooners56 on November 13, 2023, 03:35:43 PMIf the Giants have a chance to draft Caleb Williams and don't, it would be a monumental travesty!
You might be right, but in my opinion, I think you'd be a huge mistake for the New York Giants. I would rather have Maye, McCarthy or Daniels
Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 08:46:14 AMFumbles can be fixed. Exhibit #1: Tiki Barber.
different for a RB who needed to adjust how he carries and protects the ball, and a QB who is known for dancing around trying to make things happen. in order for him to stop fumbling, he will have to stop doing that, which is a huge part of his game.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 11, 2023, 09:45:39 AMCan you be more specific? Williams has no disciplinary history or any other significant problems. He's been a star on the field. He seems personable. I don't get where the negativity is coming from. I'd love to know.
When I hear "doesn't seem like the type Mara would want to be the face of the franchise" about someone who has done nothing wrong (at least that anyone knows about), I have to say, it makes me wonder what the person making that claim is really thinking.
I think Mara basically wants the Eli profile, so to speak. Even tempered on field and off, says inoffensive things to the media, does team and charity events, quiet leader. Jones fit that profile. I don't think Caleb Williams does.
Quote from: AYM on November 13, 2023, 07:06:09 PMI think Mara basically wants the Eli profile, so to speak. Even tempered on field and off, says inoffensive things to the media, does team and charity events, quiet leader. Jones fit that profile. I don't think Caleb Williams does.
Understood.
Has Williams ever said something offensive to the media or gotten in even minor trouble? If he has, I am unaware.
Williams is a 21 year old college student who has already started his own charitable foundation (see below), which has included events, partnering with other organizations, and significant capital raises. Do we know what charitable achievements Jones had accomplished by age 21? I honestly have no idea.
https://calebcares.org/
I fully get that Williams does not have the same personality as Jones. But do we really believe Mara will nix the idea of drafting him because of that reason? Why is Jones the paradigm for what Mara would want to do moving forward?
Also, hasn't Mara been quoted directly as saying he only vetoes a player his GM and coach want when there is a very significant off the field conduct issue? I have watched him say that before in an interview, so either he was lying through his teeth or he will have no problem with Williams if that's who his coach and GM want to go with (assuming they're in a position to get him).
Williams is my number 1 and by a good distance.
Carl Banks on Compassion for Young Athletes: Understanding Caleb Williams' Emotions
Former NFL linebacker Carl Banks weighs in on emotions in sports with the recent spotlight on Caleb Williams and has a few choice words for the "tough guys" out there.
https://www.si.com/fannation/bleav/.preview/cn02ce6e305000240c?auth=1700101887:bde8149a6566165b0c69c70e28dbe391455e7a55&nonce=1700015487191
Carl makes sense but the scene highlighted is extraordinary.