The suffering we have had to endure this season is only justified if the Giants acquire an elite QB prospect who will be the franchise's QB for the next decade plus.
Couldnt agree more.
The ideal finish to this season is losing every game and guys like JMS, Banks, Hawkins (play him and let him take his lumps), Pinnock, McFadden, Thibs and a few others getting better.
Schoen and Daboll know QB is job one. Even if we end up the 4 or 5 pick range, they might sell off some guys and picks to move up.
The only team on our schedule in similar shape is the Pats.
Quote from: SlotCorner on November 13, 2023, 09:47:48 AMSchoen and Daboll know QB is job one. Even if we end up the 4 or 5 pick range, they might sell off some guys and picks to move up.
The only team on our schedule in similar shape is the Pats.
The Giants clearly need talent beyond the QB. So I don't want the Giants to have to pay anything more than their first-round pick to acquire their new QB.
I genuinely don't think this is something we will have to worry about.
What a sh1t show.
No clue why we didn't trade off Ashawn, Adoree, and Barkley. We will likely sign several guys next year so we won't get comp picks for them. Plus obtaining said good pick would have been easier with them gone.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 13, 2023, 09:50:52 AMI genuinely don't think this is something we will have to worry about.
What a sh1t show.
I could see the Giants getting a QB robbing victory or two with the return of Tyrod Taylor
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 09:56:09 AMI could see the Giants getting a QB robbing victory or two with the return of Tyrod Taylor
There is absolutely no reason to play Tyrod unless Devito gets hurt. For as bad as Devito is, what is the harm of him continung toget reps? He could still be QB 3 next year and a backup if Jones isnt cleared.
Taylor's days are down here.
Quote from: JT39 on November 13, 2023, 10:00:59 AMThere is absolutely no reason to play Tyrod unless Devito gets hurt. For as bad as Devito is, what is the harm of him continung toget reps? He could still be QB 3 next year and a backup if Jones isnt cleared.
Taylor's days are down here.
I hope that is the approach the Giants take, as it's the one that gives the Giants the best chance from now on. The Giants are in the same division as the Eagles, who benefitted greatly by deliberately tanking, so if they don't do what they need to do (competitively speaking) they will always be at a disadvantage.
At this point, I will be pissed if the Giants lose another game. I'm sick of losing.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 09:56:09 AMI could see the Giants getting a QB robbing victory or two with the return of Tyrod Taylor
I don't care what spot they get. I just want them to hit on whichever QB they go with.
Quote from: Giant Jim on November 13, 2023, 10:10:45 AMAt this point, I will be pissed if the Giants lose another game. I'm sick of losing.
Prepare to be pissed. They are unlikely to win a game Devito starts and if they have any sense about them he'll start every game from here on out.
Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 10:13:00 AMI don't care what spot they get. I just want them to hit on whichever QB they go with.
The way I see it, the higher they draft the better their odds of hitting on a winning QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 10:16:11 AMThe way I see it, the higher they draft the better their odds of hitting on a winning QB.
The odds are better they get exactly who they want but it doesn't change the odds of him working out.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2023, 09:56:09 AMI could see the Giants getting a QB robbing victory or two with the return of Tyrod Taylor
The week 18 game at Met Life against the Eagles worries me. If the Eagles have zero to play for in that game, they will likely to screw the Giants out of picking in the top two. We know they're shady about throwing games and, let's face it, it would be in their interest to not want Maye or Williams landing in the NFC East. So I think that's a huge worry.
The Pats also worry me a great deal as far as jockeying for those top two spots go. Our game against them will be interesting.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 13, 2023, 10:28:27 AMThe week 18 game at Met Life against the Eagles worries me. If the Eagles have zero to play for in that game, they will likely to screw the Giants out of picking in the top two. We know they're shady about throwing games and, let's face it, it would be in their interest to not want Maye or Williams landing in the NFC East. So I think that's a huge worry.
The Pats also worry me a great deal as far as jockeying for those top two spots go. Our game against them will be interesting.
I still think the Pats will be a loss cause they are in every game and have played well for stretches of games at a time. Their problem is their Jones messes up when it matters most. But we will get outcoached in that game. Not worried about that one.
As far as week 18, if we dont tank worse than the Eagles - thats a huge problem - especially if the number 1 pick is on the line.
Quote from: JT39 on November 13, 2023, 10:35:58 AMI still think the Pats will be a loss cause they are in every game and have played well for stretches of games at a time. Their problem is their Jones messes up when it matters most. But we will get outcoached in that game. Not worried about that one.
As far as week 18, if we dont tank worse than the Eagles - thats a huge problem - especially if the number 1 pick is on the line.
Mara may be a lot of things but I don't think he is lacking in personal integrity. That reality, while a good thing, may hurt us in our quest for a top QB prospect. I don't trust Jeffrey Lurie at all to not tank on purpose (we watched the Eagles do this once already with our own two eyes). I feel a little bit less sure about Kraft/Belichick, but this organization has been busted cheating red-handed on multiple occasions so I would not put some sort of tanking past them.
As for us losing to the Pats, we nearly beat the Bills in Buffalo as well as the Jets, both of whom are better, so as bad as things look right now I don't think it's some lock that we'd lose to the pats with both teams trying their hardest. They suck too.
Jeff George, Vince Young, David Carr, Jack Thompson, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Rick Mirer, JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Zach Wilson, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Mark Sanchez, Robert Griffin III
A top pick doesn't always work out. Who's going to be drafting this next "great" QB, Joe Schoen? How's his record of drafting QB's? Please don't say Josh Allen, he was an assistant like Dave Gettleman was when Ernie Accorsi drafted Phillip Rivers and traded for Eli. Ray Perkins was very involved in drafting Phil Simms. The great George Young got a so-so QB in Hostetler and failed horribly with Dave Young. Look at the Giants history since the draft was started, they've only drafted 1 championship QB, Phil Simms. I'll be rooting for them to win as many as possible. If they lose out, there'll probably be another coaching change. ... it wasn't that long ago we were laughing at the Cleveland Browns.
Quote from: Giant Jim on November 13, 2023, 10:10:45 AMAt this point, I will be pissed if the Giants lose another game. I'm sick of losing.
Congrats for having the courage to speak up and say it--The other great contributor to this site, the late JimV must be rolling in his grave with all this talk about tanking, losing every game, play Devito the sacrificial lamb etc etc
Dumpster Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 13, 2023, 06:58:54 PMCongrats for having the courage to speak up and say it--The other great contributor to this site, the late JimV must be rolling in his grave with all this talk about tanking, losing every game, play Devito the sacrificial lamb etc etc
Dumpster Dan
Thanks for the support, but like JimV, I've seen my share of first round mistakes by the Giants and the rest of the league. Simms needed until the middle of the '84 season to get the entire fan base behind him, he didn't do much before then. How many teams for Geno Smith? You watch the games from Sept-Dec, not in April. I hate to say it, but no matter what, Jones's injury at this time does mean they need to bring in a QB with potential to take over. But to root for them to lose? How many top tier QB's have been drafted since they skipped over several to draft Barkley?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 13, 2023, 10:42:53 AMAs for us losing to the Pats, we nearly beat the Bills in Buffalo as well as the Jets, both of whom are better, so as bad as things look right now I don't think it's some lock that we'd lose to the pats with both teams trying their hardest. They suck too.
Never underestimate the power of Danny Devito!
Quote from: Giant Jim on November 13, 2023, 07:18:22 PMThanks for the support, but like JimV, I've seen my share of first round mistakes by the Giants and the rest of the league. Simms needed until the middle of the '84 season to get the entire fan base behind him, he didn't do much before then. How many teams for Geno Smith? You watch the games from Sept-Dec, not in April. I hate to say it, but no matter what, Jones's injury at this time does mean they need to bring in a QB with potential to take over. But to root for them to lose? How many top tier QB's have been drafted since they skipped over several to draft Barkley?
I deeply appreciate yours and Dan's perspective; yet, I hope you don't mind me asking a hypothetical question. In 1980, the Cardinals won one more game than our Giants; consequently, they 'earned' the 5th pick, while our Giants had the number 2 pick, which they used on Lt. The Cardinals selected LB EJ Junior; now, if the Giants win one more game in 1980, they end up with the 4/5 pick, ceding the opportunity to select LT to the Seahawks or Cardinals. Would fans rather have LT, or a few meaningless wins in a lost season? Now, I'm suggesting there's an LT in this draft, but there's a chance Williams could be our next Eli...I'd rather enjoy that possibility than a few meaningless wins. I think that's the perspective being shared in this thread. Regardless, I get where you're coming from!!
Knowing the Giants we'll hit a 63 yard field goal in a snow storm on the last day of the year to drop from 2nd overall to 4th.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 13, 2023, 07:31:37 PMI deeply appreciate yours and Dan's perspective; yet, I hope you don't mind me asking a hypothetical question. In 1980, the Cardinals won one more game than our Giants; consequently, they 'earned' the 5th pick, while our Giants had the number 2 pick, which they used on Lt. The Cardinals selected LB EJ Junior; now, if the Giants win one more game in 1980, they end up with the 4/5 pick, ceding the opportunity to select LT to the Seahawks or Cardinals. Would fans rather have LT, or a few meaningless wins in a lost season? Now, I'm suggesting there's an LT in this draft, but there's a chance Williams could be our next Eli...I'd rather enjoy that possibility than a few meaningless wins. I think that's the perspective being shared in this thread. Regardless, I get where you're coming from!!
Oh dont get me wrong--I totally understand where all of you are coming from but there is a certain amount of hindsight involved. Its entirely possible that there were some who would have picked EJ Junior over LT--and I will be sitting on the edge of the couch next draft night IF we are picking first or second hoping like hell that its either Williams or Maye IF thats who JS and company have at the top of their board...I am in agony every damn Sunday due to my antiquated thinking--as I say to myself after the final whistle--well that improves our draft chances--I am not so naive that I dont understand that--I am unfortunately or fortunately a classic example of the old adage--you cant teach an old fart a new trick---so in the week leading up to and during the game itself I just cant get myself to seriously talk about losing and all due respect to Rich who started this--I will NOT be pissed if the Giants win another game
Dumpster Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 13, 2023, 08:05:57 PMOh dont get me wrong--I totally understand where all of you are coming from but there is a certain amount of hindsight involved. Its entirely possible that there were some who would have picked EJ Junior over LT--and I will be sitting on the edge of the couch next draft night IF we are picking first or second hoping like hell that its either Williams or Maye IF thats who JS and company have at the top of their board...I am in agony every damn Sunday due to my antiquated thinking--as I say to myself after the final whistle--well that improves our draft chances--I am not so naive that I dont understand that--I am unfortunately or fortunately a classic example of the old adage--you cant teach an old fart a new trick---so in the week leading up to and during the game itself I just cant get myself to seriously talk about losing and all due respect to Rich who started this--I will NOT be pissed if the Giants win another game
Dumpster Dan
Thanks, Dan; really good perspective.
I am very worried we may win that game. Hope Devito throws it away.
Quote from: SlotCorner on November 13, 2023, 09:47:48 AMSchoen and Daboll know QB is job one. Even if we end up the 4 or 5 pick range, they might sell off some guys and picks to move up.
The only team on our schedule in similar shape is the Pats.
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 13, 2023, 08:05:57 PMOh dont get me wrong--I totally understand where all of you are coming from but there is a certain amount of hindsight involved. Its entirely possible that there were some who would have picked EJ Junior over LT--and I will be sitting on the edge of the couch next draft night IF we are picking first or second hoping like hell that its either Williams or Maye IF thats who JS and company have at the top of their board...I am in agony every damn Sunday due to my antiquated thinking--as I say to myself after the final whistle--well that improves our draft chances--I am not so naive that I dont understand that--I am unfortunately or fortunately a classic example of the old adage--you cant teach an old fart a new trick---so in the week leading up to and during the game itself I just cant get myself to seriously talk about losing and all due respect to Rich who started this--I will NOT be pissed if the Giants win another game
Dumpster Dan
Dan,
I started a poll last week, and I made it clear there is no one way for people to be fans. I completely understand both points of view and everything in between. I feel that this has been a very painful season and the only thing that will make that pain "worth it" will be if it leads to something great. I can also understand the every game the Giants win is a good game point of view.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 13, 2023, 07:31:37 PMI deeply appreciate yours and Dan's perspective; yet, I hope you don't mind me asking a hypothetical question. In 1980, the Cardinals won one more game than our Giants; consequently, they 'earned' the 5th pick, while our Giants had the number 2 pick, which they used on Lt. The Cardinals selected LB EJ Junior; now, if the Giants win one more game in 1980, they end up with the 4/5 pick, ceding the opportunity to select LT to the Seahawks or Cardinals. Would fans rather have LT, or a few meaningless wins in a lost season? Now, I'm suggesting there's an LT in this draft, but there's a chance Williams could be our next Eli...I'd rather enjoy that possibility than a few meaningless wins. I think that's the perspective being shared in this thread. Regardless, I get where you're coming from!!
Lawrence Taylor was a once in a lifetime talent. Another #2 overall pick was Ryan Leaf. Lawrence Taylor was over 40 years ago, there hasn't been another since. Look at the top picks they've had recently and where they are now. Schoen has had 2 drafts, one with Gettleman's scouts and one with his own. What makes your sure he can pick a good QB? He picked Neal. Thibodeaux does well against teams with weak offensive lines. The book's still out on whether he can pick a head coach. Winter's coming, I'll try to watch the games and hopefully they'll play well enough and win so it's enjoyable for me to invest 3 hours.