According to Ralph Vacchiano as per an inside source. Yup, read it for yourself.
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/evgiants-might-not-be-ready-to-move-on-from-daniel-jones
Ralph is stirring up xxxx. He has no sources anymore. It is pretty obvious by their actions that the Giants are going to draft a QB if in position to do so.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 13, 2023, 10:08:53 PMRalph is stirring up xxxx. He has no sources anymore. It is pretty obvious by their actions that the Giants are going to draft a QB if in position to do so.
What actions have they taken that indicate that they will be drafting a QB?
The entire top brass went to scout Caleb and Penix. They have been to North Carolina to scout Drake Maye 5 times. North Carolina doesn't have a lot of other top of other prospects. Is is obvious what is up.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 13, 2023, 10:10:59 PMWhat actions have they taken that indicate that they will be drafting a QB?
I certainly could envision a scenario where if they don't finish in the top two, they don't have the ability to trade up, and they aren't in love with any other QBs, that they pass on taking a QB in that situation. But man, if they pass on high quality QB prospects they like because they want to keep trying with a player who has done almost nothing but fail on the field and get hurt, then I really don't know what else to say.
They're not getting rid of Jones after the year- but he ain't starting next year lol
Dumb article.
Quoteit's far from guaranteed that the Giants would actually do it. According to multiple sources, including one inside the Giants, some key people in the organization still have faith in Jones and believe their 26-year-old franchise quarterback can still be their long-term answer.
QuoteThat's not to suggest they won't replace Jones, even though the draft will come less than 14 months after the Giants gave him a four-year, $160 million contract with $81 million guaranteed. They might still do it. In fact, their intention, the team source said, is to prepare as if they will.
To summarize for everyone who didn't read the article: The Giants may or may not draft a QB to replace Jones. :coach: :poo:
2025 QB Draft Class
The first two will declare 2024
https://walterfootball.com/QBRankings2025.php
Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 10:21:25 PMDumb article.
To summarize for everyone who didn't read the article: The Giants may or may not draft a QB to replace Jones. :coach: :poo:
He employed a lot of words to say nothing. There's a chance the Giants may not draft a QB, although they're likely to...no xxxx. This is content for the sake of content.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 13, 2023, 10:39:50 PMHe employed a lot of words to say nothing. There's a chance the Giants may not draft a QB, although they're likely to...no xxxx. This is content for the sake of content.
Hope he gets stuck on that fence.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 13, 2023, 10:13:14 PMThe entire top brass went to scout Caleb and Penix. They have been to North Carolina to scout Drake Maye 5 times. North Carolina doesn't have a lot of other top of other prospects. Is is obvious what is up.
Was not aware of that. Thanks.
There is merit in the point the Giants are considering:
QuoteBut they are a long way away from any final decision, and the source acknowledged it might be premature for them to completely give up on Jones after watching him in just six starts this season — including three without running back Saquon Barkley, four without left tackle Andrew Thomas, and behind a disastrous offensive line that got him sacked a ridiculous 30 times.
"It's almost an unfair evaluation," said an NFC scout who has watched the Giants this season. "He was getting battered. He had no time to run an offense before the rush was in his face. He didn't look good. I'm not excusing him. But he didn't have much of a chance.
"And I think they know that."
However, it's hard to look past the injury issues. Two neck injuries in 3 years and an ACL on a QB who makes many of his plays with his legs make it tough to count on him moving forward.
I also appreciate the other valid point they made:
QuoteThat's a big risk, because for every C.J. Stroud — who is having an all-time great rookie season in Houston — there is a Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, or even a Bryce Young, who was drafted No. 1 overall last April, but has the Panthers 1-8 and competing for the first overall pick again (which Chicago owns as a result of trading up for Young).
The issue is that such a choice isn't made in a vacuum. True, there is a risk in drafting a QB, a big one. There is also a risk riding with a QB with DJ's injury history and uncertainty in his play.
I think the real tie-breaker is the money saved by having a QB on a rookie contract. The sort of savings that allows a team to build and add badly needed talent.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 08:24:09 AM"It's almost an unfair evaluation," said an NFC scout who has watched the Giants this season. "He was getting battered. He had no time to run an offense before the rush was in his face. He didn't look good. I'm not excusing him. But he didn't have much of a chance.
I know I'm picking nits but I don't agree with him that it was an "unfair" evaluation. The circumstances were what they were. He was evaluated on how he performed in those given circumstances.
Now, I would have no issue if he said that it was a "less than ideal" evaluation. That has more merit. But I would also counter that the majority of the conditions that NFL QBs face are less than ideal. Bottom line for me is that you play the hand you're dealt. Some players can thrive in less than ideal conditions. Some get swallowed up by them.
Quote from: T200 on November 13, 2023, 10:21:25 PMDumb article.
To summarize for everyone who didn't read the article: The Giants may or may not draft a QB to replace Jones. :coach: :poo:
Lol. That about sums it up.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 08:41:40 AMI know I'm picking nits but I don't agree with him that it was an "unfair" evaluation. The circumstances were what they were. He was evaluated on how he performed in those given circumstances.
Now, I would have no issue if he said that it was a "less than ideal" evaluation. That has more merit. But I would also counter that the majority of the conditions that NFL QBs face are less than ideal. Bottom line for me is that you play the hand you're dealt. Some players can thrive in less than ideal conditions. Some get swallowed up by them.
One thing I noticed was how Tyrod was looking a lot like DJ during his third game before he was hurt. The QB environment the Giants have created this year simply is not conducive to success.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 08:50:12 AMOne thing I noticed was how Tyrod was looking a lot like DJ during his third game before he was hurt. The QB environment the Giants have created this year simply is not conducive to success.
If the roles were reversed (Tyrod was the #6 pick and Jones was the veteran backup) I don't think Tyrod would have gotten a new contract from the Giants.
I look forward to the line playing better in both run and pass blocking. That's when our fortunes will change.
I'm fed up of reading the excuses around DJ. Yes, he didn't have Barkley for 3 games this year but for 3 games he did and he skippered a functional offense for half a game - what about the other 2.5?
What is he going to do if/when Barkley walks next year? Who are we looking to pin it on that he hasn't had success?
The excuses need to stop, this is not a small window that he's been evaluated in. It's over sixty games. The success of last year appears that it was down to a slimed down playbook, limit turnovers and let Barkley run. That worked for the first half of the season but you don't need an eighty million dollar quarterback for that.
Jones is a great guy, I'm happy he is rich, I wish it worked out here but it hasn't. The lease he gets is unfathomable, especially when 80% of this board is judging Neal on fewer than 25 games into his career.
Now, if this story is running to create the impression that the Giants aren't set on taking a QB in the draft - therefore creating some smoke and mirrors to our approach, that's fine.
But if the story is true and they are thinking of recycling Jones for further evaluation, I would be shocked - more shocked than I was when they actually re-signed him.
I think one of the issues people have with this article is there seems to be an underlying assumption that the Giants will be drafting in the top 3, one of the elite QB prospects will fall into their laps and the Giants will simply pass on one of these elite prospects in favor of continuing with Daniel Jones.
What if the Giants win a few games. There are teams on the schedule that are not unbeatable, especially if the Giants bring back Tyrod.
The Eagles (if they are resting players on January 7
The Pats (who have as bad a record as the Giants)
The Rams (especially if Staford is out)
The Saints
Even the Commanders and Packers are not, "no way we win game"
If the Giants get pushed out of the top 5 and are near the 10th pick, acquiring a new QB looks entirely different. For the past five years, we have seen DJ being compared by fans (and some in the media) to the elite QBs in the league. So, just getting a franchise-caliber QB is not going to satisfy the elite or bust crowd. While its history has shown it's not impossible to get your elite QB later in the draft, the deeper one goes into round one, the more of a challenge drafting that elite QB gets.
Plus, as we have witnessed this season, the Giants' talent level is lacking (not just at QB). If the Giants are forced to give up a "King's ransom" to be in a position to acquire a QB prospect that one believes (it's never certain) is elite, the team will be hamstrung in terms of acquiring the needed talent.
For everyone pointing to the Texans and Stroud, as the model drafts a QB and the whole team is turned around, it's worth noting the Texans gave up nothing but one of their picks to acquire Stroud, and they also added WR Tank Dell in the draft who is lighting up the league and Anderson Jr an edge defender who is also playing very well. The Texans clearly got a boost with their new head coach DeMeco Ryans.
So I completely understand why the Giants management is not in agreement with much of the fan base that assumes that drafting a new franchise QB is fait accompli. It's still more than likely to happen, and as the article says, the Giants are working with the assumption that there is a strong possibility that it will happen, but a lot of games still have to be played, and it would be ill-advised for the Giants to shut any doors at this point in time.
That said, I would be surprised if the Giants don't draft a QB in round one (maybe round two) in this upcoming draft.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 08:41:40 AMI know I'm picking nits but I don't agree with him that it was an "unfair" evaluation. The circumstances were what they were. He was evaluated on how he performed in those given circumstances.
Now, I would have no issue if he said that it was a "less than ideal" evaluation. That has more merit. But I would also counter that the majority of the conditions that NFL QBs face are less than ideal. Bottom line for me is that you play the hand you're dealt. Some players can thrive in less than ideal conditions. Some get swallowed up by them.
I don't understand the notion that we only have 6 starts to evaluate DJ. There's now 5 (actually 8) years of data to effectively judge DJ. Said data, beyond question, demonstrates DJ is a well below average NFL passer.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 14, 2023, 09:28:53 AMI don't understand the notion that we only have 6 starts to evaluate DJ. There's now 5 (actually 8) years of data to effectively judge DJ. Said data, beyond question, demonstrates DJ is a well below average NFL passer.
The data from last season was not "well below average"
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 09:30:29 AMThe data from last season was not "well below average"
If you're going to quote someone, do so accurately. Where did the Giants finish is pass production last year?
I explicitly said: NFL passer.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 14, 2023, 09:34:03 AMIf you're going to quote someone, do so accurately. Where did the Giants finish is pass production last year?
I will also add that. DJ's rookie season was far from "well below average."
What this article ignores is that drafting a QB at 1 or 2 doesn't necessarily mean we are done with DJ. The Niners just traded Trey Lance (for next to nothing) so its not unprecedented. What do you think we'd get for a Drake Maye or Caleb Williams if DJ somehow plays better and looks to be the future? Not nothing, I would think.
The issue is timing. There is no chance to evaluate DJ before the draft, and his performance in Daboll's system is hit and miss, at best. Remember, he did great against a terrible Vikings defense in the playoffs, but otherwise dropped off the end of last year. You have to take a chance that there is a better QB out there. This year has been a disaster, and if we have the right administration in place, there may not be another opportunity to draft this high any time soon.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 09:28:31 AMI think one of the issues people have with this article is there seems to be an underlying assumption that the Giants will be drafting in the top 3, one of the elite QB prospects will fall into their laps and the Giants will simply pass on one of these elite prospects in favor of continuing with Daniel Jones.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 09:28:31 AMI think one of the issues people have with this article is there seems to be an underlying assumption that the Giants will be drafting in the top 3, one of the elite QB prospects will fall into their laps and the Giants will simply pass on one of these elite prospects in favor of continuing with Daniel Jones.
What if the Giants win a few games. There are teams on the schedule that are not unbeatable, especially if the Giants bring back Tyrod.
I can speak for anyone else but I am currently making these statements/judgements/call them whatever you want on where they are drafting right now.
You're correct, they can win some meaningless games and push their stock lower but I have seen posts on this board (granted not from you, Rich) that intimated we could have gone 2-2 over the Jets, Raiders, Cows, Commanders stretch.
It's pointless projecting where they are going to be come draft season. My assertions are based on where we are now.
If we have to stop speculating on where they are going to draft, this board is going to be very quiet for a few months.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 14, 2023, 09:53:34 AMI can speak for anyone else but I am currently making these statements/judgements/call them whatever you want on where they are drafting right now.
You're correct, they can win some meaningless games and push their stock lower but I have seen posts on this board (granted not from you, Rich) that intimated we could have gone 2-2 over the Jets, Raiders, Cows, Commanders stretch.
It's pointless projecting where they are going to be come draft season. My assertions are based on where we are now.
If we have to stop speculating on where they are going to draft, this board is going to be very quiet for a few months.
Ed,
I appreciate you clearing that up. I would agree, if the Giants draft 2nd overall and pass on one of the elite prospects (assuming I believe they are elite after studying them), I would share your frustration.
While Ralph V. might have created buzz with is "The Giants may not be ready to move on from DJ" headline. The reality is management has to be prepared for all possibilities, and in essence, that was what Ralph's source within the Giants was saying.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 10:00:42 AMEd,
I appreciate you clearing that up. I would agree, if the Giants draft 2nd overall and pass on one of the elite prospects (assuming I believe they are elite after studying them), I would share your frustration.
While Ralph V. might have created with is "The Giants may not be ready to move on from DJ" headline. The reality is management has to be prepared for all possibilities, and in essence, that was what Ralph's source within the Giants was saying.
Absolutely, and if he were reporting that the Giants were 'all-in on QB X', that would be dreadful from a management point of view. You have to keep the other teams guessing, even if it the answer appears obvious.
I can't stand Ralph. I'm writing because I AGREE with his speculation/argument/thesis on Jones.
The goal IMO should be to take the best player available with Pick 2.
I said the same thing when they drafted Barkley (still one of the Top 20 players in the NFL).
To me, right now, the best player available is Harrison, Jr., offense, NOT one of the QB's.
That could change, but that's the situation as I see it today, and I believe the Giants agree.
Bob
It is unfathomable to me that the Giants draft in the top 3 and not take a QB. Even Top 5 for that matter. Because it may require a trade up a couple of spots but if that's what it takes they should do it.
If they somehow stumble into a couple of wins that drop them into the 7-10 range of the draft then fine, the cost of moving up that far could be considered too great, but I can't believe they're going to win a single game Devito starts and for that reason they should start him every game the rest of the way.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 10:08:07 AMI can't stand Ralph. I'm writing because I AGREE with his speculation/argument/thesis on Jones.
The goal IMO should be to take the best player available with Pick 2.
I said the same thing when they drafted Barkley (still one of the Top 20 players in the NFL).
To me, right now, the best player available is Harrison, Jr., offense, NOT one of the QB's.
That could change, but that's the situation as I see it today, and I believe the Giants agree.
Bob
Bob,
You've been beating the Harrison Jr. drum for some time now. Would you be OK with taking him with the first pick knowing our QB room is a mess? Keep in mind that we've been clamoring for Jones to get the ball to Hyatt. How would it be with two WR threats that will rarely catch a pass given what we've seen from our QBs this year?
Quote from: kingm56 on November 14, 2023, 09:28:53 AMI don't understand the notion that we only have 6 starts to evaluate DJ. There's now 5 (actually 8) years of data to effectively judge DJ. Said data, beyond question, demonstrates DJ is a well below average NFL passer.
Need to give DJ 7 or 8 more years so he can be properly evaluated.<sarcasm>
This is why they call it QB hell. It's like a nightmare you can't wake up from. We just keep repeating the same debates about the QB position year after year while the organization performs like the Jets.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 10:16:06 AMBob,
You've been beating the Harrison Jr. drum for some time now. Would you be OK with taking him with the first pick knowing our QB room is a mess? Keep in mind that we've been clamoring for Jones to get the ball to Hyatt. How would it be with two WR threats that will rarely catch a pass given what we've seen from our QBs this year?
Tim: That's easy. If the draft were today, I'd fight through even YOU to get to the podium. lol
No one knows what will happen tomorrow, let along six months from now. If I change my mind I'll let you know.
In the meantime, the Giants are still kicking themselves for what they believe to have been unfair treatment of Jones (i.e., not giving him an OL and an elite WR to work alone with him and Barkley). Until they change their collection minds about that situation, they will not draft a high-1st-round QB, unless their scouts/coaches/GM all agree that they would be passing up the "Next Peyton/Elway/Brady" (or some other equivalent talent).
Bob
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 14, 2023, 10:15:08 AMIt is unfathomable to me that the Giants draft in the top 3 and not take a QB.
Gm: We agree yet again, but if they don't see a "Golden Boy" QB in this year's draft (or he's gone), IMO they can easily trade down a few spots to make room for those who do. Just hope they won't settle for "second-best" with a pick that could net them a true elite WR or Edge Rusher. Bob
As someone pointed out, the top two prospects in 2025 are still Williams and Maye (because they're still Juniors and haven't declared yet). Then if drops off. Way off. And Williams and Maye are almost 100% going to declare, so they won't even be in the mix for 2025. Even if the Giants don't have a shot at Williams or Maye in 2024, getting Penix, Daniels, or McCarthy would be preferable to being stuck with the 2025 class.
If you take Harrison in 2024, the QB situation will be in limbo for years. It's clearly not Jones and the team can't afford to sign an upper tier free agent vet because of Jones' contract.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 10:23:34 AMTim: That's easy. If the draft were today, I'd fight through even YOU to get to the podium. lol
No one knows what will happen tomorrow, let along six months from now. If I change my mind I'll let you know.
In the meantime, the Giants are still kicking themselves for what they believe to have been unfair treatment of Jones (i.e., not giving him an OL and an elite WR to work alone with him and Barkley). Until they change their collection minds about that situation, they will not draft a high-1st-round QB, unless their scouts/coaches/GM all agree that they would be passing up the "Next Peyton/Elway/Brady" (or some other equivalent talent).
Bob
It's Mara who is kicking himself, he said it. However his cash register chimes each and every day regardless who is at QB. The people getting kicked are the fans. I hope that this latest failure both the Giants as a whole and the Jones experiment has Mara finally letting those he hired do their jobs without interference. Maybe the latter was part of the compromise for signing Jones which included the two year out.
Quote from: Uni on November 14, 2023, 10:36:39 AMAs someone pointed out, the top two prospects in 2025 are still Williams and Maye (because they're still Juniors and haven't declared yet). Then if drops off. Way off. And Williams and Maye are almost 100% going to declare, so they won't even be in the mix for 2025. Even if the Giants don't have a shot at Williams or Maye in 2024, getting Penix, Daniels, or McCarthy would be preferable to being stuck with the 2025 class.
If you take Harrison in 2024, the QB situation will be in limbo for years. It's clearly not Jones and the team can't afford to sign an upper tier free agent vet because of Jones' contract.
While it's difficult to win in the NFL without a good QB, it's almost always dangerous to settle on a QB. If the team doesn't see a ceiling of "elite QB" it seems foolish to take all the risks inherent in drafting a QB. Besides, I don't get how fans who constantly argued that Jones didn't measure up to the elite QBs would be satisfied with just a solid QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 10:46:35 AMWhile it's difficult to win in the NFL without a good QB, it's almost always dangerous to settle on a QB. If the team doesn't see a ceiling of "elite QB" it seems foolish to take all the risks inherent in drafting a QB. Besides, I don't get how fans who constantly argued that Jones didn't measure up to the elite QBs would be satisfied with just a solid QB.
There's no guarantee either way. Do your due diligence, turn over every stone, look in every corner and closet, then make the best decision and live with it. Pray that you didn't miss anything and that it works out.
The Chiefs did their homework on Mahomes. The Ravens did their work on Jackson. Schoen needs to do his work on whoever it is they have their eyes on.
Quote from: files58 on November 14, 2023, 10:43:43 AMIt's Mara who is kicking himself, he said it. However his cash register chimes each and every day regardless who is at QB. The people getting kicked are the fans. I hope that this latest failure both the Giants as a whole and the Jones experiment has Mara finally letting those he hired do their jobs without interference. Maybe the latter was part of the compromise for signing Jones which included the two year out.
files: I've felt that way since 1955 when I started watching the NFL. Bob
If the Giants draft Harrison instead of one of these top QBs, then everyone should be fired. Enough of this nonsense. Grab the franchise QB. Get out of QB hell.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 11:08:32 AMThere's no guarantee either way. Do your due diligence, turn over every stone, look in every corner and closet, then make the best decision and live with it. Pray that you didn't miss anything and that it works out.
The Chiefs did their homework on Mahomes. The Ravens did their work on Jackson. Schoen needs to do his work on whoever it is they have their eyes on.
It's funny you mentioned the Chiefs and the Ravens. One of the points I made recently is the environment you draft a QB into is important for optimal development. When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, they were talented enough to have put together a 10 -6 record the previous season. The Ravens were also coming off a 10 - 6 season when they drafted Lamar Jackson.
While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.
There will be plenty of QB upgrades over Jones in the draft. The Giants will be taking a QB in the 1st round of the draft. Bet on it.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 10:46:35 AMWhile it's difficult to win in the NFL without a good QB, it's almost always dangerous to settle on a QB. If the team doesn't see a ceiling of "elite QB" it seems foolish to take all the risks inherent in drafting a QB. Besides, I don't get how fans who constantly argued that Jones didn't measure up to the elite QBs would be satisfied with just a solid QB.
Williams, Maye, Penix, and Daniels have shown elite traits. McCarthy hasn't perhaps showcased elite traits, but he's still a better prospect than Jones ever was (OSU Michigan will go a long way in evaluating McCarthy). I don't think any of those QBs are settling
Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 11:23:18 AMWhile I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.
That would be an interesting stat to know 🤔
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 10:08:07 AMI can't stand Ralph. I'm writing because I AGREE with his speculation/argument/thesis on Jones.
The goal IMO should be to take the best player available with Pick 2.
I said the same thing when they drafted Barkley (still one of the Top 20 players in the NFL).
To me, right now, the best player available is Harrison, Jr., offense, NOT one of the QB's.
That could change, but that's the situation as I see it today, and I believe the Giants agree.
Bob
If Jalin Hyatt was drafted by the Bills, he would have ten TDs and over 1000 yards by now. He would be one of if not the top Receiver in the NFL with several other teams. The Giants don't have a Receiver problem. They should not draft MHJ.
If they truly believe in Daniel Jones, and they have one of the top two picks they should trade down and get a king's ransom. They should have done that instead of drafting Barkley. SB has not helped the team win just like Hyatt hasn't. They can get a second in 2025 plus their first and a first in 2025 minimum. Fix that Offensive Line so it make's Tommy look like Tom Brady and get a shut down corner and an edge rusher.
Of course they would most likely pick the QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 11:23:18 AMIt's funny you mentioned the Chiefs and the Ravens. One of the points I made recently is the environment you draft a QB into is important for optimal. When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, they were talented enough to have put together a 10 -6 record the previous season. The Ravens were also coming off a 10 - 6 season when they drafted Lamar Jackson.
While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.
Bringing in a rookie QB into a stable offensive environment will most definitely set the player up to be successful.
In the case of the Giants, I have no doubt that continuing to improve the offensive line is a top priority. I know you aren't suggesting it, but they don't have to wait to have stable environment before getting their QB. They can do both if the opportunities present themselves.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 14, 2023, 11:23:18 AMIt's funny you mentioned the Chiefs and the Ravens. One of the points I made recently is the environment you draft a QB into is important for optimal. When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, they were talented enough to have put together a 10 -6 record the previous season. The Ravens were also coming off a 10 - 6 season when they drafted Lamar Jackson.
While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.
Rich: To hopefully add to your thoughts, the Chiefs were in a situation that should interest Giants fans. They had a good team with an acceptable QB and jumped up to grab him anyway. We're not in that situation, IMO.
As for your final paragraph... I'll buy you dinner if your hunch is wrong.
QB should come LAST or as close to last as possible (which does NOT mean you should pass up a QB if you aren't 100 percent in on your current QB AND (most importantly) you are not "QB-desperate" AND you had better be right about the guy you draft. It is arguable that the Giants failed in all three regards when they took Jones.
And I've felt this way for 50 years but won't start a thread on it, but I firmly believe (as part of a monopoly) the Giants (enjoying a huge market) don't need a star QB or other star players as badly as smaller-market teams (or teams with less-interested and poorer fan bases).
Giants spend far more money on the draft process than most teams, yet they seem to get poor results more often than many. Nothing will stop me from believing there is at least some "chicanery" in the draft process, in the GM/Coach selection process, or in both. Money talks louder than wins. The only losers are the Giants' fans.
Bob
My two cents:
1) They aren't throwing in the towel on DJ - like him or not, he is not a dog and has NFL talent
2) If Schoen feels strongly that there is a "Mahommes/Brady/Herbert" type of QB in this draft, he will probably do whatever it takes to grab him and let him get his feet wet behind DJ, with the plan to hand the new QB the ball in 2026
3) A likely (or "most likely") scenario IMHO, is we draft Harrison and a QB (fairly early) to groom whilst concentrating on fixing (trying to fix) the O-line with early pics (2nd-4th round)
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 14, 2023, 11:35:29 AMIf Jalin Hyatt was drafted by the Bills, he would have ten TDs and over 1000 yards by now. He would be one of if not the top Receiver in the NFL with several other teams. The Giants don't have a Receiver problem. They should not draft MHJ.
If they truly believe in Daniel Jones, and they have one of the top two picks they should trade down and get a king's ransom. They should have done that instead of drafting Barkley. SB has not helped the team win just like Hyatt hasn't. They can get a second in 2025 plus their first and a first in 2025 minimum. Fix that Offensive Line so it make's Tommy look like Tom Brady and get a shut down corner and an edge rusher.
Of course they would most likely pick the QB.
Ed: It's a great argument that did not elude me.
As of today I don't yet see "elite WR" in Hyatt. Harrison does it all better than Hyatt right now (blocking included). I see the two on the same team as deadly. I'm thinking of his dad's days with Kurt Warner and that cavalcade of WR's.
Although your remarks about the Bills are correct, IMO, I just don't think it's an an apt comparison, and that comparison includes all 21 other starters in addition to the QB. Team sport.
Bob
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 14, 2023, 12:12:37 PM3) A likely (or "most likely") scenario IMHO, is we draft Harrison and a QB (fairly early) to groom whilst concentrating on fixing (trying to fix) the O-line with early pics (2nd-4th round)
Is this based on something you've read or just something you feel?
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 12:23:53 PM"elite WR" in Hyatt.
Part of the problem is that he doesn't have a QB that get him the ball.
There's been a number of posts from people explaining that he's open.
In my opinion, if he had competent QB play, I think he would be mirroring Addison's production in Minnesota.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 11:37:01 AMBringing in a rookie QB into a stable offensive environment will most definitely set the player up to be successful.
In the case of the Giants, I have no doubt that continuing to improve the offensive line is a top priority. I know you aren't suggesting it, but they don't have to wait to have stable environment before getting their QB. They can do both if the opportunities present themselves.
To improve the O-line they have to start with coaching. I'd bet the Giants have put as much or more draft capital into the O-line as any team in the league. I've said it before, but they need to do a deep dive into who is the best evaluator of online and online coaching talent and do whatever it takes to hire them. Because the Giants have had their heads up their butts for more than 10 years on the O-line.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 13, 2023, 10:31:56 PM2025 QB Draft Class
The first two will declare 2024
https://walterfootball.com/QBRankings2025.php
All but 4 likely come out this year. 2025 will be a horrible draft for Qbs. likely a 1 man show with Aller as none of those other guys are any good.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 14, 2023, 12:28:09 PMPart of the problem is that he doesn't have a QB that get him the ball.
There's been a number of posts from people explaining that he's open.
In my opinion, if he had competent QB play, I think he would be mirroring Addison's production in Minnesota.
ED: True, but he also has to learn how to block and read defenses better so he picks the very best option on every play where he's running an option route. I agree competent QB work would do wonders for his stats, but so would having just ONE QB to work with. The injury situation, as much (or more) than the level of QB play, IMO, is what I believe to be holding him back, if anything other than just being a rookie is indeed holding him back. Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 12:57:07 PMbut he also has to learn how to block and read defenses better so he picks the very best option on every play where he's running an option route. I agree competent QB work would do wonders for his stats, but so would having just ONE QB to work with. The injury situation, as much (or more) than the level of QB play, IM
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 12:57:07 PMED: True, but he also has to learn how to block and read defenses better so he picks the very best option on every play where he's running an option route. I agree competent QB work would do wonders for his stats, but so would having just ONE QB to work with. The injury situation, as much (or more) than the level of QB play, IMO, is what I believe to be holding him back, if anything other than just being a rookie is indeed holding him back. Bob
Very true - but he's ten games into his career. I'd be focussing on the things he can do rather than what he cant - that can be taught.
Speed can't be taught. They ought to have been using it.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 14, 2023, 12:26:12 PMIs this based on something you've read or just something you feel?
I prefaced my post with "my two cents"...in otherwise, an "opinion"...and like assholes, we all have one.
I try to get into the head of Schoen and how he thinks. I take all comments from fans with a grain of salt, as should all fans take my opinions. I have nothing for anyone to read to back up what I said, I just have a "hunch"
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 14, 2023, 01:01:35 PMI prefaced my post with "my two cents"...in otherwise, an "opinion"...and like assholes, we all have one.
I try to get into the head of Schoen and how he thinks. I take all comments from fans with a grain of salt, as should all fans take my opinions. I have nothing for anyone to read to back up what I said, I just have a "hunch"
That's fair enough, I wasn't digging you out. I was simply interested if you had any grounding around the third point. That's all.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 14, 2023, 12:55:39 PMAll but 4 likely come out this year. 2025 will be a horrible draft for Qbs. likely a 1 man show with Aller as none of those other guys are any good.
That's the way it looks. This year there should be 5 QBs that appear to be the real deal. I haven't seen this since 2018. There were 5 that year and all were first-round picks. Only two lived up to the hype and they were the ones that most pundits picked apart. Rosen had character flaws and wasn't willing to put the work in. Darnold never got past his weakness. Mayfield's character issues carried over and became a distraction.
This QB Class looks to be an even better class but surely at least two will bust. Either through injury or their flaws exposed against much better players at the higher level.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 12:57:07 PMED: True, but he also has to learn how to block and read defenses better so he picks the very best option on every play where he's running an option route. I agree competent QB work would do wonders for his stats, but so would having just ONE QB to work with. The injury situation, as much (or more) than the level of QB play, IMO, is what I believe to be holding him back, if anything other than just being a rookie is indeed holding him back. Bob
Bob, you really should get the all-22.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 14, 2023, 12:53:47 PMTo improve the O-line they have to start with coaching. I'd bet the Giants have put as much or more draft capital into the O-line as any team in the league. I've said it before, but they need to do a deep dive into who is the best evaluator of online and online coaching talent and do whatever it takes to hire them. Because the Giants have had their heads up their butts for more than 10 years on the O-line.
You get no disagreement from me whatsoever. 💯
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 14, 2023, 01:10:12 PMBob, you really should get the all-22.
Ed: I think you know I already have it. lol
Regardless, on 95% of the plays when Hyatt is open, breaking into the open, or about to break into the open, the QB has already been sacked, or flushed out of the pocket, or has his first reads on the other side of the field.
There have been very few situations in which none of that was true and a golden opportunity was missed SOLELY due to QB error, QB reluctance, or QB ineptitude. In short, if all three QB's are missing golden opportunities it says more about mindset implanted in the QB by the coaching than the identity of the QB.
Bob
Jones has done nothing but set this franchise back. Us drafting him and then resigning him has done nothing but harm this franchise.
I was speaking with a group of friends last night and one said that he almost 100% guarantees that the Jones fans won't be behind us drafting a new Qb or if we do draft a new one and that Qb is successful then the narrative will be look what they did for QBA that they never did for Jones etc. I really hope that's not the case but a ton of people really were all in on Jones being the answer and when he continued to let all of us down as he has it just got worse. Now that a journeyman backup Qb has outplayed him and we are on injury #7 I think, hopefully we can close the door on the ridiculous notion that Jones will ever be anything but a serviceable backup.
It's time to move on, it doesn't matter if you thought he was the next Tom Brady or the next Brock Osweiler. He is clearly not the answer, it is just disappointing that it took 60+ games and we are still at a point were people think it's a good idea to continue trotting that kid out to play.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 01:17:01 PMEd: I think you know I already have it. lol
Regardless, on 95% of the plays when Hyatt is open, breaking into the open, or about to break into the open, the QB has already been sacked, or flushed out of the pocket, or has his first reads on the other side of the field.
There have been very few situations in which none of that was true and a golden opportunity was missed SOLELY due to QB error, QB reluctance, or QB ineptitude. In short, if all three QB's are missing golden opportunities it says more about mindset implanted in the QB by the coaching than the identity of the QB.
Bob
There have been accuracy and timing issues and the QB has to have a leap of faith on some plays before he gets sacked. When it's one one-on-one, Hyatt will get open and he has a nice catch radius with good hands. The ball just needs to be placed properly. I recall at least two catches where Hyatt had to slow down or adjust to make the catch. Other times the pass was behind him on a crosser or a slant, short or outside when he had inside leverage. I've seen him run several different routes and the hype that he can't is just not completely accurate. I also have seen him block well downfield. Bob, I saw many instances this past weekend where the QB just put it up for his Receiver to make the contested catch. I almost feel bad for the kid that this team drafted him.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 14, 2023, 01:17:36 PMIt's time to move on, it doesn't matter if you thought he was the next Tom Brady or the next Brock Osweiler. He is clearly not the answer, it is just disappointing that it took 60+ games and we are still at a point were people think it's a good idea to continue trotting that kid out to play.
J: No one here is fighting to keep Jones & no one I know of ever thought he had a chance to be among the elite.
The question has always been (here) if he could be "good enough" to win anything. Last year, he won something.
Optical illusion or not, it happened, despite lack of good OL play and lack of a good 4-man pass rush (two of the things every good team seems to have nowadays). So IMO that accomplishment (even against the Vikings) is nothing to be sneezed it.
I still think he can drive a Ferrari. Like the vast majority, I never thought he could pull an Edsel.
The in-between question (hard to answer) is whether he would help or hurt and developing team. Since IMO we still lack maybe 25% of the other 21 players needed to make a legitimate starting squad, it's really a really hard question to answer. Many of us are sure enough to answer that question today. I'm not, and IMO neither are the Giants big-wigs.
Bob
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 14, 2023, 01:28:59 PMThere have been accuracy and timing issues and the QB has to have a leap of faith on some plays before he gets sacked. When it's one one-on-one, Hyatt will get open and he has a nice catch radius with good hands. The ball just needs to be placed properly. I recall at least two catches where Hyatt had to slow down or adjust to make the catch. Other times the pass was behind him on a crosser or a slant, short or outside when he had inside leverage. I've seen him run several different routes and the hype that he can't is just not completely accurate. I also have seen him block well downfield. Bob, I saw many instances this past weekend where the QB just put it up for his Receiver to make the contested catch. I almost feel bad for the kid that this team drafted him.
Ed: Can't argue with any of that. My biggest Jones complaint is accuracy.
Agree Hyatt can run any route they want. I don't discount his ability, I just don't see a truly elite guy YET.
I also saw this weekend's games and agree. Niice to have a lead and/or play with an established elite WR or two.
Bob
PS. Does the QB make a WR "elite"? Or does an elite WR makes the QB look good? Both? Neither? I believe with the right tools even an undrafted free-agent (that would be Kurt Warner) can win a championship or two.
Quote"I still think he can drive a Ferrari. Like the vast majority, I never thought he could pull an Edsel."
LOL...might be the best line I've ever read on this board
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 01:44:06 PMEd: Can't argue with any of that. My biggest Jones complaint is accuracy.
Agree Hyatt can run any route they want. I don't discount his ability, I just don't see a truly elite guy YET.
I also saw this weekend's games and agree. Niice to have a lead and/or play with an established elite WR or two.
Bob
PS. Does the QB make a WR "elite"? Or does an elite WR makes the QB look good? Both? Neither? I believe with the right tools even an undrafted free-agent (that would be Kurt Warner) can win a championship or two.
Both. We won't see what this kid is capable of until he gets targets.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 14, 2023, 01:46:23 PMBoth. We won't see what this kid is capable of until he gets targets.
Ed: No one wants to see that happen more than I do. Each week I wait for it and each week I'm disappointed.
Some people see the QB's as being overly cautious (whether it's just them, or the coaches' instructions to them).
Others see ALL three QB's (Taylor the least so, I suppose) "playing scared."
Regardless, now that there's no doubt this season is a disaster, maybe the coaches will "turn them loose" or the QB's will grow a pair... in either of which cases we'll get our wish. lol
Bob
I know basically nothing about college football and only get whatever info from here. That said, looking at the prospects for next year, I go with name only--Rattler. What could be a better name for a QB than that? Sort of like Ken 'the snake' Stabler. We could only wish he could be that.
Rattler gets my vote, No other reason than a great name.
Bob
You have mentioned WR more than several times. Probably would be a great draft pick, but even combined with Hyatt, who is going to get him the ball?
Would that liken to Barkely in a way that we have basically wasted his career on a middling team> If Barkley played for a winning team he might be in contention for a gold jacket in the future. Instead, we wasted what was the best RB we have had in ages, and for what? Do you want to do the same with that WR?
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 01:36:54 PMJ: No one here is fighting to keep Jones & no one I know of ever thought he had a chance to be among the elite.
The question has always been (here) if he could be "good enough" to win anything. Last year, he won something.
Optical illusion or not, it happened, despite lack of good OL play and lack of a good 4-man pass rush (two of the things every good team seems to have nowadays). So IMO that accomplishment (even against the Vikings) is nothing to be sneezed it.
I still think he can drive a Ferrari. Like the vast majority, I never thought he could pull an Edsel.
The in-between question (hard to answer) is whether he would help or hurt and developing team. Since IMO we still lack maybe 25% of the other 21 players needed to make a legitimate starting squad, it's really a really hard question to answer. Many of us are sure enough to answer that question today. I'm not, and IMO neither are the Giants big-wigs.
Bob
The problem is that Good enough, or even good Qb play won't win in the modern NFL. It's a different sport now than it was when Eli went on his runs. Now you either have Elite Qb play or your not in the conversation whatsoever and won't be. Yes a team might get lucky and make it to a playoff game, win one, and then be done but there won't be any longterm sustained success over a length of time without an Elite Qb.
I think due to his salary cap, we should keep him for at least next year. If we wanna spend our first on a new QB fine, but the number one task should be to fix the O line (new scouts and coach) so the rookie has a chance too. Let DJ compete with the new kid behind a decent line. Then at the very least, he has trade value also.
Quote from: GloryDays on November 14, 2023, 04:22:48 PMI think due to his salary cap, we should keep him for at least next year. If we wanna spend our first on a new QB fine, but the number one task should be to fix the O line (new scouts and coach) so the rookie has a chance too. Let DJ compete with the new kid behind a decent line. Then at the very least, he has trade value also.
We would have to trade DJ PLUS a draft pick to get some team with lots of cap space to take on his salary. This can't even be done until 2025 anyway because of the dead money, but no one will trade for him because he will be cut after 2024 anyway. Unless Gettleman ends up a GM somewhere, maybe he would do something real dumb like that
Quote from: GloryDays on November 14, 2023, 04:22:48 PMI think due to his salary cap, we should keep him for at least next year. If we wanna spend our first on a new QB fine, but the number one task should be to fix the O line (new scouts and coach) so the rookie has a chance too. Let DJ compete with the new kid behind a decent line. Then at the very least, he has trade value also.
As UNI perfectly articulated, DJ has zero trade value as his production over 60 games, relative to his salary, offers a terrible return on any team's investment.
Agreed on the trade value. I am confident nobody would take him off our hands right now at his full contract, even if they could do it for literally zero in return (ie not even give us a 7th round pick). I think we all know that not a soul would touch that contract. He will definitely be a Giant in 2024 unless we trade him and eat a huge portion of it, which they're simply not going to do. So it's correct that we're not going to "move on from Daniel Jones" in 2024. Whether we want to or not, we can't. Simple as that.
This article is hilarious suggesting The Giants haven't seen enough to evaluate Jones. Are you serious?? Do they need 10 years? He's not it.
If they pass on a QB it's not about Jones, it can only be about the prospect pool. QBs bust. Don't waste the pick on a guy who will only make it worse, if that's even possible. I want Maye or Pennix. If things don't work out perfectly or they don't like the QBs enough then trade back and add more talent that way. We're gonna be bad again next year most likely.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 14, 2023, 12:55:39 PMAll but 4 likely come out this year. 2025 will be a horrible draft for Qbs. likely a 1 man show with Aller as none of those other guys are any good.
I kind of wonder why these guys will come out early under the new rules. They aren't going to get picked in the prime draft spots because the 'regular' 2024 QB class is as strong as it is. And getting picked moderately high because the regular 2024 guys got picked before them will cost them millions in their rookie contract.
Here is how the slotting worked for 2023:
No. 1: $41.2 million
No. 2: $39.4 million
No. 3: $38.2 million
No. 4: $36.9 million
No. 5: $34.5 million
No. 6: $30.4 million
No. 7: $27.02 million
No. 8: $23.7 million
No. 9: $23.5 million
No. 10: $22.6 million
No. 11: $21.2 million
No. 12: $19.2 million
No. 13: $18.7 million
No. 14: $17.8 million
No. 15: $17.5 million
No. 16: $16.5 million
No. 17: $16.2 million
No. 18: $15.7 million
No. 19: $15.5 million
No. 20: $15.4 million
No. 21: $15.3 million
No. 22: $15.2 million
No. 23: $14.99 million
No. 24: $14.7 million
No. 25: $14.5 million
No. 26: $14.3 million
No. 27: $14.16 million
No. 28: $14.07 million
No. 29: $13.4 million
No. 30: $13.05 million
No. 31: $12.75 million
The particular numbers will be different for 2024 and 2025 but the pattern will be the same. If you could hope to be a top ten pick in 2025 but you come out early and get picked 25th in 2024 you cost yourself 7 million on your rookie contract. Plus, under the new college rules you can pick up a nice piece of change playing that extra year in college. It's not NFL money, but its not chump change. A top college QB can make a couple of million.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 14, 2023, 12:53:47 PMTo improve the O-line they have to start with coaching. I'd bet the Giants have put as much or more draft capital into the O-line as any team in the league. I've said it before, but they need to do a deep dive into who is the best evaluator of online and online coaching talent and do whatever it takes to hire them. Because the Giants have had their heads up their butts for more than 10 years on the O-line.
You're close, but you still have to integrate those pieces into the system, which it is clear the Giants have completely failed to do:
1. Develop an offensive strategy
2. Develop the tactics (plays, counterplays, audibles, etc.)
3. Develop the offensive line formations and blocking schemes
4. Research and go get the offensive line players best suited to your offense
5. Train and coach your offensive line into a cohesive unit, unto itself
6. Integrate offensive line into the overall offense
7. Fine-tune to optimize
You offensive line experts out there know better than I, but my point is break it down to the smallest element, smallest requirement, and ensure you have a solution which verifies that requirement, then go to the next requirement, and so forth.
What's so damn hard about that?
Peace!
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 14, 2023, 08:31:26 PMI kind of wonder why these guys will come out early under the new rules. They aren't going to get picked in the prime draft spots because the 'regular' 2024 QB class is as strong as it is. And getting picked moderately high because the regular 2024 guys got picked before them will cost them millions in their rookie contract.
Here is how the slotting worked for 2023:
No. 1: $41.2 million
No. 2: $39.4 million
No. 3: $38.2 million
No. 4: $36.9 million
No. 5: $34.5 million
No. 6: $30.4 million
No. 7: $27.02 million
No. 8: $23.7 million
No. 9: $23.5 million
No. 10: $22.6 million
No. 11: $21.2 million
No. 12: $19.2 million
No. 13: $18.7 million
No. 14: $17.8 million
No. 15: $17.5 million
No. 16: $16.5 million
No. 17: $16.2 million
No. 18: $15.7 million
No. 19: $15.5 million
No. 20: $15.4 million
No. 21: $15.3 million
No. 22: $15.2 million
No. 23: $14.99 million
No. 24: $14.7 million
No. 25: $14.5 million
No. 26: $14.3 million
No. 27: $14.16 million
No. 28: $14.07 million
No. 29: $13.4 million
No. 30: $13.05 million
No. 31: $12.75 million
The particular numbers will be different for 2024 and 2025 but the pattern will be the same. If you could hope to be a top ten pick in 2025 but you come out early and get picked 25th in 2024 you cost yourself 7 million on your rookie contract. Plus, under the new college rules you can pick up a nice piece of change playing that extra year in college. It's not NFL money, but its not chump change. A top college QB can make a couple of million.
Most of those guys are old outside of Maye, Aller, and Williams. This year and maybe next year if some hold over will be the last of the covid exemption nonsense. They are all older so they are trying to get in the league now, Penix, Nix, Van Dyke, and Rattler could comeback next year and they are all already 23 and most of them will very 24 or 25 before the play a down in the NFL. Even Daniels will be 23 before he gets drafted and 24 before his rookie season finishes.
Mccarthy, Williams, and Maye are the young qbs with Allers time being in 2025. The other guys are just running out of time.
Quote from: kartanoman on November 15, 2023, 07:20:27 AMYou're close, but you still have to integrate those pieces into the system, which it is clear the Giants have completely failed to do:
1. Develop an offensive strategy
2. Develop the tactics (plays, counterplays, audibles, etc.)
3. Develop the offensive line formations and blocking schemes
4. Research and go get the offensive line players best suited to your offense
5. Train and coach your offensive line into a cohesive unit, unto itself
6. Integrate offensive line into the overall offense
7. Fine-tune to optimize
You offensive line experts out there know better than I, but my point is break it down to the smallest element, smallest requirement, and ensure you have a solution which verifies that requirement, then go to the next requirement, and so forth.
What's so damn hard about that?
Peace!
None of those things are going to happen if you don't get the right players and the right coach. Remember the line from the movie Miracle when Herb Brooks tells the higher ups that he isn't looking for the best players, he's looking for the right players? The Giants approach to building an oline has been the opposite, IMO.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 13, 2023, 10:13:14 PMThe entire top brass went to scout Caleb and Penix. They have been to North Carolina to scout Drake Maye 5 times. North Carolina doesn't have a lot of other top of other prospects. Is is obvious what is up.
Is there any evidence they were ONLY there to scout qb's?
Well North Carolina has maybe 2 other pro prospects. There is video of Schoen watching Caleb warm up before the game. You don't scout that many times without real interest. I know you want to give Danny his 400000 years to show he can be an even average QB, but there is no way they pass up the chance to draft a franchise guy if they are in position to do so.
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 14, 2023, 10:08:07 AMI can't stand Ralph. I'm writing because I AGREE with his speculation/argument/thesis on Jones.
The goal IMO should be to take the best player available with Pick 2.
I said the same thing when they drafted Barkley (still one of the Top 20 players in the NFL).
To me, right now, the best player available is Harrison, Jr., offense, NOT one of the QB's.
That could change, but that's the situation as I see it today, and I believe the Giants agree.
Bob
I agree. is MHJ a better wr prospect than any of the qb's as qb prospects? i think so.
The problem with drafting wrs is that they are largely reliant on the Qb. We already have one burner that we can't use because we don't have an average Qb to get the ball to him.
MHJ could be a guaranteed HOFer and I would not draft him over the QBs in this draft.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 16, 2023, 04:59:14 PMI agree. is MHJ a better wr prospect than any of the qb's as qb prospects? i think so.
Tyrod Taylor would love to have a weapon like MHJ to throw to.
I am fully with
@Jclayton92 and
@Dgoodmantrublu.
No doubt there are some exceptional WRs in this class. But the idea of taking one of them first round with our QB situation in this bad shape is not one that appeals to me. That is not to say that (1) WR is not a premium position or (2) that we don't need help at it, but I see no point in prioritizing getting an elite, all-world WR over addressing our needs at QB.
Another point is that WR is an easier position to have a solid chance of getting good ones on day two than QB.
Giants scouts at their 6th Drake Maye of the year. I don't believe any report that they will stick with Jones.