https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/should-the-giants-make-mike-kafka-coach-on-the-sidelines/ar-AA1jUWAk?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=74639171f9cb4b31bed7a3f1186af85a&ei=26
Interesting thought. Can't be any worse than what it is now.
They should make him available to other teams by letting him go.
I said this a month ago, Lenn.
Buffalo OC Dorsey fired today---I remember talk that Daboll when he was hired by Giants that he wanted Dorsey to come with him but Dorsey chose to stay in Buffalo. Do you think there is any chance that Daboll will reach out?
Dumpster Dan
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 14, 2023, 03:00:32 PMBuffalo OC Dorsey fired today---I remember talk that Daboll when he was hired by Giants that he wanted Dorsey to come with him but Dorsey chose to stay in Buffalo. Do you think there is any chance that Daboll will reach out?
Dumpster Dan
Interesting, Dan. My guess is he was fired for not being in touch with the flow of the game. They were racking up chunks of yardage on the ground and he continued to call passing plays on a night that Josh Allen was clearly off. It must have been a trend. But he was fired with the Bills scoring 26 points a game.
Kafka needs to be on the sidelines. Outside of Kafka and Dorsey/his replacement how many OC's in the NFL call plays from the both instead of the sidelines? I can't remember any prior Giants play caller doing this.
They should make him have a real QB. That is what will fix things. Blaming coaching for this mess makes no sense.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 14, 2023, 03:55:57 PMThey should make him have a real QB. That is what will fix things. Blaming coaching for this mess makes no sense.
Do you think Kafka has any culpability in this mess?
None. Guys are open. The QB can't get them the ball. We are playing with a QB who doesn't belong in the NFL. When Taylor was playing those few games, the team moved the ball. This is not a coaching issue.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 04:31:31 PMDo you think Kafka has any culpability in this mess?
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 14, 2023, 04:57:39 PMNone. Guys are open. The QB can't get them the ball. We are playing with a QB who doesn't belong in the NFL. When Taylor was playing those few games, the team moved the ball. This is not a coaching issue.
That's just one aspect of the offense. Designing plays, calling plays, game planning, making offensive adjustments, pass and run blocking schemes, coaching, and training are not the responsibility of the QB. The list of things I just pointed out are the direct responsibility of the offensive coordinator. Replacing Daniel Jones does not instantly make this a top half of the league offense. There are more problems than just Danny Check-down.
Watch the film. Adjustments are being made. Guys are getting open. If the QB can't operate the offense, no amount of coaching will try make it work. Blaming the coaching in this situation is just plain lazy.
Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2023, 05:06:32 PMThat's just one aspect of the offense. Designing plays, calling plays, game planning, making offensive adjustments, pass and run blocking schemes, coaching, and training are not the responsibility of the QB. The list of things I just pointed out are the direct responsibility of the offensive coordinator. Replacing Daniel Jones does not instantly make this a top half of the league offense. There are more problems than just Danny Check-down.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 14, 2023, 05:15:21 PMWatch the film. Adjustments are being made. Guys are getting open. If the QB can't operate the offense, no amount of coaching will try make it work. Blaming the coaching in this situation is just plain lazy.
Are you satisfied with the offense as-is with the obvious exception of Jones at QB?
I am interested in this general subject (sideline versus up above) when it comes to coordinators, but I don't really have a strong opinion either way, because I have seen multiple examples of both success and failure with both approaches. Seems to me there are advantages and disadvantages to each approach, which I think is pretty obvious, otherwise everyone would do one versus the other.
Do I really think our offense will suddenly get better if Kafka comes down to the sidelines? No, I don't. I remember hearing people talk about how great it was that we had our coordinator up high last year. With that said, I'm certainly not opposed to him trying if he and Daboll think it will work better.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 14, 2023, 02:55:48 PMI said this a month ago, Lenn.
Thanks Ed. I was away at the time. I guess they didn't hear you.
Should the Giants micromanage Kafka?
Quote from: TDToomer on November 14, 2023, 03:43:35 PMKafka needs to be on the sidelines. Outside of Kafka and Dorsey/his replacement how many OC's in the NFL call plays from the both instead of the sidelines? I can't remember any prior Giants play caller doing this.
I think it's pretty much all of them that call plays from upstairs.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 15, 2023, 08:15:55 AMI think it's pretty much all of them that call plays from upstairs.
Going into the season there were 15 Head Coaches calling the plays.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 15, 2023, 09:02:17 AMGoing into the season there were 15 Head Coaches calling the plays.
Correct, the question was about OC's though. I think even the one's not calling plays sit in the booth. Forgot which OC it was that moved out of the booth on to the field. Was listening to the radio and Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan were discussing that they don't mind that move but the you NEED someone you can trust in that booth. Not sure exactly what goes other than a birdseye view, but they had a very strong opinion about needing someone in that booth that was qualified.
Somebody on twitter posited an idea I hadn't though of: Josh Allen turning into an MVP candidate, Daniel Jones turning into a serviceable QB for a year, and Russell Wilson's career resurgence this year all have 1 thing in common and it's not Daboll or Kafka....its Davis Webb. Should they have just handed him the OC or QB coach's job this offseason?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 15, 2023, 10:04:07 AMCorrect, the question was about OC's though. I think even the one's not calling plays sit in the booth. Forgot which OC it was that moved out of the booth on to the field. Was listening to the radio and Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan were discussing that they don't mind that move but the you NEED someone you can trust in that booth. Not sure exactly what goes other than a birdseye view, but they had a very strong opinion about needing someone in that booth that was qualified.
well, my point was that at least 15 play callers are on the field.
They need a few Quality Control and someone to watch the analytics and clock management, etc. Upstairs.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 15, 2023, 07:53:23 AMShould the Giants micromanage Kafka?
No. They should fire him.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 14, 2023, 06:32:40 PMI am interested in this general subject (sideline versus up above) when it comes to coordinators, but I don't really have a strong opinion either way, because I have seen multiple examples of both success and failure with both approaches. Seems to me there are advantages and disadvantages to each approach, which I think is pretty obvious, otherwise everyone would do one versus the other.
Do I really think our offense will suddenly get better if Kafka comes down to the sidelines? No, I don't. I remember hearing people talk about how great it was that we had our coordinator up high last year. With that said, I'm certainly not opposed to him trying if he and Daboll think it will work better.
Could it possibly make the offense worse?
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 15, 2023, 12:35:32 PMNo. They should fire him.
I am fine with that approach as well. Fire him or let him do his job the way he sees fit, is my position.
He needs to be fired
They should get him a QB and a real OL coach. Kafka is a good coach. He didn't forget to coach in one season.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 15, 2023, 01:19:14 PMThey should get him a QB and a real OL coach. Kafka is a good coach. He didn't forget to coach in one season.
Are you satisfied with the offense as-is with the obvious exception of Jones at QB?
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 15, 2023, 12:39:12 PMCould it possibly make the offense worse?
Maybe/maybe not, but either way I think we fans are kidding ourselves in a pretty spectacular way if we actually think we have an idea on how to improve the offense that Daboll hasn't thought about already and that he doesn't have universes more knowledge about than we do.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 16, 2023, 09:46:49 AMMaybe/maybe not, but either way I think we fans are kidding ourselves in a pretty spectacular way if we actually think we have an idea on how to improve the offense that Daboll hasn't thought about already and that he doesn't have universes more knowledge about than we do.
That may be so Dave, but as fans, we are all gamblers, you know, always go for it on 4th down, etc., etc. Daboll may be hearing those footsteps or reading some of the media spots and has changed the philosophy and is playing a lot more safely than he ever did last year.
Why do you think he is less apt to be daring this eyar as opposed to last?
Quote from: LennG on November 16, 2023, 01:50:25 PMThat may be so Dave, but as fans, we are all gamblers, you know, always go for it on 4th down, etc., etc. Daboll may be hearing those footsteps or reading some of the media spots and has changed the philosophy and is playing a lot more safely than he ever did last year.
Why do you think he is less apt to be daring this eyar as opposed to last?
I don't really know. Until recently it may have been because he trusted the D more this year. In a number of games this year our D has been very good. But I don't really have a firm answer or explanation.
is there any empirical evidence that this directly correlates to better results? i feel like a majority of coordinators are in the booth these days.