1. I think the biggest mystery in sports—not just football, but all of sports—is how difficult it is to project who's going to be a good NFL quarterback coming from college football. In the five drafts from 2018 to 2022, 15 quarterbacks were picked in the top 15. As of this morning, eight have either failed or been average or worse: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen. The jury's out on two more, Daniel Jones and Kyler Murray. Only five—Burrow, Herbert, Tagovailoa, Allen, Lawrence—are solid starters or better. This year, as I look at all the teams with QB needs, I wonder how the Giants and Patriots and Bears and Seahawks and Bucs are going to make sure they're not part of the majority that flunk QB Prospecting 101.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/fmia/news/fmia-week-10-c-j-stroud-taking-off-while-its-time-to-ground-zach-wilson
its true. you just never know. and then you get the russ wilsons, the dak prescotts, the brock purdys, that if hindsight was 20/20, could all very easily have been #1 overall picks.
I can't believe you said the jury is still out on Daniel Jones. What will it take for you to declare a verdict.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 16, 2023, 03:34:57 PM1. I think the biggest mystery in sports—not just football, but all of sports—is how difficult it is to project who's going to be a good NFL quarterback coming from college football. In the five drafts from 2018 to 2022, 15 quarterbacks were picked in the top 15. As of this morning, eight have either failed or been average or worse: Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen. The jury's out on two more, Daniel Jones and Kyler Murray. Only five—Burrow, Herbert, Tagovailoa, Allen, Lawrence—are solid starters or better. This year, as I look at all the teams with QB needs, I wonder how the Giants and Patriots and Bears and Seahawks and Bucs are going to make sure they're not part of the majority that flunk QB Prospecting 101.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/fmia/news/fmia-week-10-c-j-stroud-taking-off-while-its-time-to-ground-zach-wilson
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 16, 2023, 03:57:26 PMI can't believe you said the jury is still out on Daniel Jones. What will it take for you to declare a verdict.
You realize that is Peter King's words, not mine.
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 16, 2023, 03:59:26 PMYou realize that is Peter King's words, not mine.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 16, 2023, 03:57:26 PMI can't believe you said the jury is still out on Daniel Jones. What will it take for you to declare a verdict.
while it does sound absurd, its a fairly unique situation. guy gets way overdrafted, brought in to the worst team in the league, has dog$hit receivers most of his career, BRUTAL oline, 3 head coaches, multiple coordinators, injuries, etc. some will call it excuses. maybe most of it is. but can you name another QB who had to deal with something like that, short of david carr? i do believe the jury is still slightly out on him. will he ever be great? it does not appear likely. but its really hard to show off what you got when you got nothing to work with. you have to admit that he's had it harder than arguably any qb of all time.
I don't admit any of that. Lots of QBs enter the league with xxxx around them and do a lot better than Jones. Everything is always someone else's fault. His throwing into trap coverage and refusing to attack the entire field is on no one but him. He process slowly. That's on him. He's a backup quality player in this league.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 16, 2023, 04:03:01 PMwhile it does sound absurd, its a fairly unique situation. guy gets way overdrafted, brought in to the worst team in the league, has dog$hit receivers most of his career, BRUTAL oline, 3 head coaches, multiple coordinators, injuries, etc. some will call it excuses. maybe most of it is. but can you name another QB who had to deal with something like that, short of david carr? i do believe the jury is still slightly out on him. will he ever be great? it does not appear likely. but its really hard to show off what you got when you got nothing to work with. you have to admit that he's had it harder than arguably any qb of all time.
Every rookie Qb that gets draft in the top 5 goes through that. The difference is elite Qbs lift their teams up and the qbs that aren't great don't.
The problem the Giants made were hanging on to long. The Browns, Jets, and Bears saw that Darnold, Trubisky, and Mayfield weren't it and let them go asap. What is crazy is Trubisky and Mayfield both put up more consistent seasons than Jones and yet we are the only fan base that continues to hold onto a below average qb.
Ah, my apologies. I think it was from you. I read too fast
Quote from: MightyGiants on November 16, 2023, 03:59:26 PMYou realize that is Peter King's words, not mine.
The issue is the lack of alternatives to drafting a QB high. No one is losing a decent QB to free agency and trading for one hamstrings the rest of the team.
Getting a great QB on a rookie contract is a lottery ticket that pays off in playoff contention. Even good GMs pick the wrong QBs. There are too many variables involved and good QBs aren't available every year.
Peter King knows the right people, and IMO his reporting reflects the views of those people.
So I am never quick to disagree with him.
In this case, I am cautious but decided he knows what he's talking about (or the people who he knows do).
Bob