Trade down and pick up a 23 second and a 24 first. Although the Giants Maye have other plans.
https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/19/bo-nix-oregon-history-arizona-state-heisman-favorite
Harrison in the 1st, Bo in the 2nd?
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Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on November 19, 2023, 09:26:43 AMHarrison in the 1st, Bo in the 2nd?
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I think Bo will move up to the top ten.
Then we have Jayden Daniels who was responsible for 8 EIGHT touchdowns. Six passing and two rushing.
Unless Schoen is absolutely in full-blown man-love with one of the QBs or Marvin Harrison, I see no reason that they shouldn't trade down for a haul. My instincts tell me Schoen wants to keep DJ, but draft a solid QB to groom, but not take over for a couple of years. If he pulls the trigger on one of the QBs with his first, then DJ's days as a Giant are numbered, but he'll still get starts next season. Nothing to back this up, just my personal intuition
I was watching Penix last night and it occurred to me that as a lefty, the blindside protector is the right tackle. Unless Thomas moves to RT, I don't know if this is such a good idea. And that's shame, because Penix has a really live arm and great accuracy on the deep ball.
I see the numbers, but I can't get over how bad Bo was in his Auburn days. Is he really that much improved?
Nix should be first row for the Heisman. How can you play any better? 35 tds/2 int...almost 3700 yards passing..3rd in qbr..his Ducks still in the hunt for it all..hello.
:knockONwood:
Bo Nix eerily reminds me of Jones. He was very Jones like at Auburn avging 2500 15 and 6. When he got to Oregon that changed, but he didn't change, the talent around him did which is alarming. Couple that with age and injuries and Nix is a player I'd like us to avoid.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 19, 2023, 09:40:32 AMI think Bo will move up to the top ten.
It's certainly possible, although I think it's more likely this happens if he shines in games against tougher Ds than he has seen all year in the Pac-12. He'll get his chance in the playoffs or, if not, a good bowl game (provided he doesn't wuss out and skip it).
It's all about what Bo was asked to do and he was a Freshman and Sophomore at Auburn. Look at last season where he rushed for over 70 carries and 500 yards compared to this season. He had a good showing against Washington even though they lost last 2 minutes. Beat USC and Calib, Utah is no slouch, and beat UNC and Maye in the Holiday Bowl.
Bo Nix is not the answer. Please stay away.
Plays on a loaded team. No defense conference. What s funny stat? He's been sacked less this year than Devito was sacked in the first quarter.
Stat lines are deceiving. Stay clear.
We must not go Bo.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 19, 2023, 09:22:19 AMTrade down and pick up a 23 second and a 24 first. Although the Giants Maye have other plans.
https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/19/bo-nix-oregon-history-arizona-state-heisman-favorite
Ed: As for Bo, if he looks like that next week I'll get interested in him (as a potential high 1st-rounder).
As for Maye, hard to tell because he seldom plays against any of the professional college football teams. lol
Regardless of those two or anyone else, the crap hits the fan next weekend.
Bob
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 20, 2023, 09:12:51 AMEd: As for Bo, if he looks like that next week I'll get interested in him (as a potential high 1st-rounder).
As for Maye, hard to tell because he seldom plays against any of the professional college football teams. lol
Regardless of those two or anyone else, the crap hits the fan next weekend.
Bob
Clemson has a solid secondary. UNC had a good Run Game to offset that. As the competition gets stronger, the HC and OC need to adjust.
I understand the caution around Bo Nix, and I'm not necessarily advocating for him at this point, but he's having an exceptional year this year, and he was pretty good last year too. His build and athleticism are both clear plusses. Obviously those latter points could be made about Daniel Jones too, so I'm certainly not drawing any conclusions on those points, but there are things to like about him.
I think his draft position will come down to him (1) getting his team to the playoffs (ie winning the Pac 12) and (2) then playing well in the playoffs against bona fide elite teams like UGA, OSU, Mich, etc. If he excels in games against opponents like that, and particularly if Oregon wins the National Championship, I think he's going to be a top 10 pick.
Needless to say, that doesn't mean he'll excel in the NFL, or even necessarily be decent for that matter, but if we're just talking about where he'll go, I think getting to the playoffs and then performing well in the playoffs will push him into top 10 status.
Just my opinion.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 09:35:00 AMI understand the caution around Bo Nix, and I'm not necessarily advocating for him at this point, but he's having an exceptional year this year, and he was pretty good last year too. His build and athleticism are both clear plusses. Obviously those latter points could be made about Daniel Jones too, so I'm certainly not drawing any conclusions on those points, but there are things to like about him.
I think his draft position will come down to him (1) getting his team to the playoffs (ie winning the Pac 12) and (2) then playing well in the playoffs against bona fide elite teams like UGA, OSU, Mich, etc. If he excels in games against opponents like that, and particularly if Oregon wins the National Championship, I think he's going to be a top 10 pick.
Needless to say, that doesn't mean he'll excel in the NFL, or even necessarily be decent for that matter, but if we're just talking about where he'll go, I think getting to the playoffs and then performing well in the playoffs will push him into top 10 status.
Just my opinion.
I don't think he needs to do all that. Scouts and Coaches will dissect the man and a lot of evaluation goes into this. I do agree that he has to show he can play with the Big Boys. As for the Daniel Jones comparisons, DJ got excuses for playing mediocre against suboptimal talent. Bo just blows them away. Last two seasons...
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 20, 2023, 10:15:49 AMI don't think he needs to do all that. Scouts and Coaches will dissect the man and a lot of evaluation goes into this. I do agree that he has to show he can play with the Big Boys. As for the Daniel Jones comparisons, DJ got excuses for playing mediocre against suboptimal talent. Bo just blows them away. Last two seasons...
No question Bo has been great since the transfer from Auburn (where he was decidedly far from great). We'll see. I'll agree that after Maye and Williams, it is unclear who the number three is, and it's possible he could be it.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 12:45:22 PMNo question Bo has been great since the transfer from Auburn (where he was decidedly far from great). We'll see. I'll agree that after Maye and Williams, it is unclear who the number three is, and it's possible he could be it.
All I'm saying here to everyone is don't be closed-minded and I know it's not in your nature to be. Lots of Football left and film to see.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 20, 2023, 01:25:00 PMAll I'm saying here to everyone is don't be closed-minded and I know it's not in your nature to be. Lots of Football left and film to see.
For sure.
The only thing I'm not really open to at this point is convincing ourselves that Jones may still somehow be the answer long term. I trust (or hope) that the team has moved on from that idea too at this point, even though Mara seemed utterly convinced of it just a handful of months ago.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 01:28:07 PMFor sure.
The only thing I'm not really open to at this point is convincing ourselves that Jones may still somehow be the answer long term. I trust (or hope) that the team has moved on from that idea too at this point, even though Mara seemed utterly convinced of it just a handful of months ago.
I'm getting the vibes that they aren't looking to replace Jones in the draft. Too many hints going out there from Ralph to Papa and Banks. I think they are open right now. If Tommy comes back down to earth and looks like a viable backup, they keep Jones and Tommy and see how the 2024 season plays out. They may look to renegotiate Jones's contract at some point next year. If Tommy continues to win by the Grace of God, I don't what they will do. So many variables. I think if there is any way they can stick with Jones, trade and get more picks to improve the team, that is their preference.
If they gain confidence off this win, the only game I know they can't win is the first Eagles game. The rest of the teams they can play with. NE- 2-8, GB- 4-6, NO- 5-5, LAR- 4-6. If they finish 3-3 that puts them at 6-11 and they may drop in the draft to around the 10th slot. At that point, they may go BPA and they have so many needs, who knows.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 20, 2023, 02:31:26 PMI'm getting the vibes that they aren't looking to replace Jones in the draft. Too many hints going out there from Ralph to Papa and Banks. I think they are open right now. If Tommy comes back down to earth and looks like a viable backup, they keep Jones and Tommy and see how the 2024 season plays out. They may look to renegotiate Jones's contract at some point next year. If Tommy continues to win by the Grace of God, I don't what they will do. So many variables. I think if there is any way they can stick with Jones, trade and get more picks to improve the team, that is their preference.
If they gain confidence off this win, the only game I know they can't win is the first Eagles game. The rest of the teams they can play with. NE- 2-8, GB- 4-6, NO- 5-5, LAR- 4-6. If they finish 3-3 that puts them at 6-11 and they may drop in the draft to around the 10th slot. At that point, they may go BPA and they have so many needs, who knows.
Like you, I obviously don't know what they'll do or what they're thinking. Nobody does. We can only speculate.
The Giants have already scouted Maye in person six times. That we know for sure, and that's definitely a lot. Clearly they have some level of interest in him. You don't go back a fourth, fifth, and sixth time if you're not significantly interested. Obviously he may not be available (or easily available) to them, so there's that. No clue where they stand on Williams or the other QB prospects.
No matter what they think of Jones as a player, I'd be surprised if Schoen and Daboll wanted to effectively bet their careers on him (ie give themselves no other quality alternatives) at this point. If nothing else, it is now really no longer up for debate as to whether or not Jones can consistently remain on the field. He clearly definitively cannot. That alone makes him not very viable as a long term option, plus these injuries are very serious and they're starting to really add up. I am pretty sure Schoen and Daboll can at least see these realities, because they are pretty obvious. They don't make for a very promising long term outlook, and that's before you even analyze his play, which we know has not been good and been further undermined by the superior play of other QBs on the same team.
I feel like Schoen and Daboll already took their shot on Jones with this contract, and it backfired spectacularly. To effectively double down on him at this point would seem a bizarre move to me, especially from their point of view. We know how Mara operates. He is capable of firing people after two years if things get ugly. He won't with these guys, but if they decide to run it back with Jones and Tommy D as the backup in 2024, and Jones stinks, or gets hurt, or both yet again, they are as good as gone, and they know that. I'll be extremely surprised if that's really their plan.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 02:44:21 PMLike you, I obviously don't know what they'll do or what they're thinking. Nobody does. We can only speculate.
The Giants have already scouted Maye in person six times. That we know for sure, and that's definitely a lot. Clearly they have some level of interest in him. You don't go back a fourth, fifth, and sixth time if you're not significantly interested. Obviously he may not be available (or easily available) to them, so there's that. No clue where they stand on Williams or the other QB prospects.
No matter what they think of Jones as a player, I'd be surprised if Schoen and Daboll wanted to effectively bet their careers on him (ie give themselves no other quality alternatives) at this point. If nothing else, it is now really no longer up for debate as to whether or not Jones can consistently remain on the field. He clearly definitively cannot. That alone makes him not very viable as a long term option, plus these injuries are very serious and they're starting to really add up. I am pretty sure Schoen and Daboll can at least see these realities, because they are pretty obvious. They don't make for a very promising long term outlook, and that's before you even analyze his play, which we know has not been good and been further undermined by the superior play of other QBs on the same team.
I feel like Schoen and Daboll already took their shot on Jones with this contract, and it backfired spectacularly. To effectively double down on him at this point would seem a bizarre move to me, especially from their point of view. We know how Mara operates. He is capable of firing people after two years if things get ugly. He won't with these guys, but if they decide to run it back with Jones and Tommy D as the backup in 2024, and Jones stinks, or gets hurt, or both yet again, they are as good as gone, and they know that. I'll be extremely surprised if that's really their plan.
I think above all at this time, they want to turn the losing around to winning. If they drop in the draft, I don't see them trading up and giving away the farm. To visit a QB six times to me means the player isn't a slam dunk. I like Maye but there is something about him that just doesn't stand out to me. Calib is boom or bust to me. Daniels has incredible weapons. Penik is a tear away. McCarthy is vegetable lasagna. Nobody but me likes Bo Nix. 2/3 of this class will bust if history shows us anything. I just think they are still on the fence. They know if they can protect Jones, he can be very effective. That 2024 cutoff gives Schoen at least 4 years and if Daboll turns this team around this year, he gets another year but the decision of drafting a QB falls on Schoen and Mara.
I think Nix has been sacked 11 times in the last 25 games. Thats insane. I am staying clear of him and Penix. I like to see how QBs do under durress. Those two rarely face it.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 20, 2023, 02:31:26 PMI'm getting the vibes that they aren't looking to replace Jones in the draft. Too many hints going out there from Ralph to Papa and Banks. I think they are open right now.
I don't think how Touchdown Tommy does for the remainder of the season has any bearing on whether they select a QB or not. I think it comes down to seeing a guy they like and what it costs to get him in Blue.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 20, 2023, 03:04:20 PMI think above all at this time, they want to turn the losing around to winning. If they drop in the draft, I don't see them trading up and giving away the farm. To visit a QB six times to me means the player isn't a slam dunk. I like Maye but there is something about him that just doesn't stand out to me. Calib is boom or bust to me. Daniels has incredible weapons. Penik is a tear away. McCarthy is vegetable lasagna. Nobody but me likes Bo Nix. 2/3 of this class will bust if history shows us anything. I just think they are still on the fence. They know if they can protect Jones, he can be very effective. That 2024 cutoff gives Schoen at least 4 years and if Daboll turns this team around this year, he gets another year but the decision of drafting a QB falls on Schoen and Mara.
Ed I like Nix as well but am simply not hard-sold on him yet. As stated earlier I want to see what he looks like against someone like Mich, Bama, UGA, or OSU. He has plenty around him in that offense and superior coaching, so if he puts up a dud in those types of games that will be a red flag for me as Pac-12 defenses aren't very good.
On the flip side, if he looks impressive in those games, then that will be an important data point as well.
I realize firming up an opinion based on a couple of games is not the best methodology, but I simply put more stock in one knockout game against an OSU type team than I do 6-8 games against the Colorados and ASUs of the world, where a guy like Nix on a team like Oregon can just stand there in the pocket in a tuxedo without getting a single hair on his head mussed, and do whatever he wants all game, throwing to receivers who are wide open. Let's see how he looks when he and his receivers are legitimately challenged by guys who will be playing on Sundays.
Quote from: T200 on November 20, 2023, 03:13:14 PMI don't think how Touchdown Tommy does for the remainder of the season has any bearing on whether they select a QB or not. I think it comes down to seeing a guy they like and what it costs to get him in Blue.
Tim: That point that escapes many. If you have a high 1st-round pick and pass on a QB, you've made a statement.
Most often, the statement is, "We already have our franchise QB."
In addition to the second alternative ("We're dumb-asses") there is a legit third option... "There was a non-QB whom we just could not pass up" which is often combined with "And we just weren't high-1st-round-sure of any of the QB's who were available this year."
Bob
PS. As you can see, I'm still hanging onto making the case for Marvin Harrison, Jr. lol
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 20, 2023, 04:22:46 PMTim: That point that escapes many. If you have a high 1st-round pick and pass on a QB, you've made a statement.
Most often, the statement is, "We already have our franchise QB."
In addition to the second alternative ("We're dumb-asses") there is a legit third option... "There was a non-QB whom we just could not pass up" which is often combined with "And we just weren't high-1st-round-sure of any of the QB's who were available this year."
Bob
PS. As you can see, I'm still hanging onto making the case for Marvin Harrison, Jr. lol
Chicago will take Harrison before the Giants with one of their picks. DeVito's fun day aside, who would be the one to throw to Harrison if the Giants did draft him. Jones certainly won't be ready and able is always a question with him. So who?
Quote from: T200 on November 20, 2023, 03:13:14 PMI don't think how Touchdown Tommy does for the remainder of the season has any bearing on whether they select a QB or not. I think it comes down to seeing a guy they like and what it costs to get him in Blue.
If Tommy plays well with the same players around him as DJ and clearly outplays him, how can that not influence their decision to draft a QB. They would have to.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 20, 2023, 04:48:17 PMIf Tommy plays well with the same players around him as DJ and clearly outplays him, how can that not influence their decision to draft a QB. They would have to.
Let me say first that I don't follow college ball. I mostly go by what is shared here. The prevalent thought is there are about 5 QBs that could go in the first half of round one.
Let's say TD Tommy lights it up and finishes the season strong. Which of the incoming rookie QBs would you pass on in favor of DeVito?
Quote from: T200 on November 20, 2023, 04:55:31 PMLet me say first that I don't follow college ball. I mostly go by what is shared here. The prevalent thought is there are about 5 QBs that could go in the first half of round one.
Let's say TD Tommy lights it up and finishes the season strong. Which of the incoming rookie QBs would you pass on in favor of DeVito?
Eight games won't compel the Giants to pass on a high draft QB. It just demonstrates Jones isn't any better than an UFA.
You either have a Qb or you don't, and need to keep drafting one until you do. I just don't think schoen will make the mistake Gettleman did and skip over qb prospects for a weapon.