Washington really lost the game more than we won it. What team has 9 sacks and loses? A team that drops passes and has 6 bad turnovers. Credit to our D for those fumbles and ints. AND Kudos to T. Divito for playing a good game He could develop into a solid back up with more time. A tough kid. Kudos also to Lawrence, Tribidoux, and Barkley.
I gotta comment on the dumb play of Simmons who could have fallen on the fumble and effectively ended the game on Wash's last TD drive-instead he tried to pick it up and run and lost the ball. Also on that last interception, it might have been smarter to just go down and cover up the ball and end the game rather than run for the endzone and risk a fumble.
Daboll called a smart timeout right before the snap to give his D a little rest on the last drive.
Good to get a meaningless win even if it cost us a higher draft pick.
Six turnovers really is ridiculous. I'd love to know how many times that a team has turned it over at least six times in an NFL game in the past, oh I don't know, 25 years. I'm sure it has happened, but I bet it's a very small number.
Great. Meaningless win with a 3rd round QB
Today was a. Rey bad day for the Giants.
I watched the cards and bears games at the same time - they did everything in their power and successfully to lose their games
Those who would prefer not to have an opportunity to draft an elite QB prospect and who want to keep drafting O linemen in the top 10 and build the franchise around Daniel Jones for the next 8-10 years got a big step closer to that objective today.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 19, 2023, 04:50:38 PMSix turnovers really is ridiculous. I'd love to know how many times that a team has turned it over at least six times in an NFL game in the past, oh I don't know, 25 years. I'm sure it has happened, but I bet it's a very small number.
22, actually.
In 2001, the Bears committed a record 12 turnovers against the 49ers when the two teams played.
The record, 12, is shared by two other teams. In 1983, Pittsburgh committed 12 turnovers against Seattle and, in 1971, the Browns committed 12 against the Colts.
Peace!
Great to get a win, no ifs, ands or buts. It's been a long season.
We won,
Why aren't I happy??????????????????
~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X(
Quote from: LennG on November 19, 2023, 07:01:31 PMWe won,
Why aren't I happy??????????????????
~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X( ~X(
Because of this?
https://www.tankathon.com/nfl
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 19, 2023, 04:30:34 PMWashington really lost the game more than we won it. What team has 9 sacks and loses? A team that drops passes and has 6 bad turnovers. Credit to our D for those fumbles and ints. AND Kudos to T. Divito for playing a good game He could develop into a solid back up with more time. A tough kid. Kudos also to Lawrence, Tribidoux, and Barkley.
I gotta comment on the dumb play of Simmons who could have fallen on the fumble and effectively ended the game on Wash's last TD drive-instead he tried to pick it up and run and lost the ball. Also on that last interception, it might have been smarter to just go down and cover up the ball and end the game rather than run for the endzone and risk a fumble.
Daboll called a smart timeout right before the snap to give his D a little rest on the last drive.
Good to get a meaningless win even if it cost us a higher draft pick.
Only on this board would someone be critical of a pick six.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 19, 2023, 04:50:38 PMSix turnovers really is ridiculous. I'd love to know how many times that a team has turned it over at least six times in an NFL game in the past, oh I don't know, 25 years. I'm sure it has happened, but I bet it's a very small number.
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-combined-turnovers-in-an-nfl-game-since-2000
The 2000 Titans Browns game must've been wild. Steve McNair had 6 turnovers himself yet they somehow pulled the game out behind Eddie George.
Show me a person...or organization that wants to lose....
and I will show you a loser.
Is that who the New York Football Giants have become ??
If so, CLEAN HOUSE.
If not then get to work and get this team going right.
There are NO shortcuts to being a winner.
Tanking ???
Then you do not know the New York Giants or its heritage.
Who is excited about winning games at this point? We are in last place -- not making the playoffs-- in need of a QB (I do not think anyone is arguing with me about that at this point any longer)-- and there are elite ones to be had in the draft. I mean good for Tommy but Tyrod already prroved that a QB can get this offense moving behinf that line. The fact an undrafted did it is just icing one the cake.
Quote from: Fletch on November 19, 2023, 10:32:06 PMWho is excited about winning games at this point? We are in last place -- not making the playoffs-- in need of a QB (I do not think anyone is arguing with me about that at this point any longer)-- and there are elite ones to be had in the draft. I mean good for Tommy but Tyrod already prroved that a QB can get this offense moving behinf that line. The fact an undrafted did it is just icing one the cake.
Nobody argued with you to begin with, most just questioned your judgement in assuming Sam howell and Will Levis were somehow better than Jones when they are all clearly not good.
Howell has played well against other teams. I'd definitely take him over Jones going forward. Jury is out on Levis
Quote from: Fletch on November 19, 2023, 10:32:06 PMWho is excited about winning games at this point?
:greetings: :greetings: :greetings:
yea cool. Maybe they can run the table with their 3rd string rookie QB; go to first place from last place; embarrass a division rival like Eagles 40-somthing to nothing like the Cowboys ; and then maybe win the Super bowl. With their "winning culture" next year they can do it again , and this time it'll be Daniel 's turn. They will procure all-pro OL and WRs and Daniel will get his ring too!
I was more excited about an elite QB propect.
Quote from: Fletch on November 19, 2023, 10:32:06 PMWho is excited about winning games at this point? We are in last place -- not making the playoffs-- in need of a QB (I do not think anyone is arguing with me about that at this point any longer)-- and there are elite ones to be had in the draft. I mean good for Tommy but Tyrod already prroved that a QB can get this offense moving behinf that line. The fact an undrafted did it is just icing one the cake.
You are a fan and you want your team to win. I remember the 2020 draft when fans were so upset that we won a game and no longer had the second pick and we would not be able to draft Chris Young , ( Everyone knew Joe Burrow was going first to the Bengels ). WE had to settle for Andrew Thomas with the fourth pick.
Winning builds character
I can't stand a QB who can't pass and relies on RPO and running. Having an edge is great. Having a tackle is great but it is not in the realm of a franchise QB which is an elite prospect.
Winning games at this point means jones still gets tone qb here which is pretty much means I have better things to do on Sunday at this point.
The New Jersey Giants showed more team spirit yesterday than they've shown in a long time. Mr. Thomas DeVito may be the most unlikely-looking QB in the NFL, but with him at the helm, the Giants played as if they intended to win the game. And they did!
Did the team make errors? You betcha. Did they become despondent and pack it in? No way!
Get rid of the other Giant QB's -- all of them -- and draft a QB back-up and some good linemen.
2024 need not resemble early 2023.
Go, Big Blue!
Giants should petition the league to try and play Washington 6 times per season.
Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on November 20, 2023, 05:16:17 AMYou are a fan and you want your team to win. I remember the 2020 draft when fans were so upset that we won a game and no longer had the second pick and we would not be able to draft Chris Young , ( Everyone knew Joe Burrow was going first to the Bengels ). WE had to settle for Andrew Thomas with the fourth pick.
Winning builds character
At that point in time we weren't looking for a new QB, so it's not really the best comparison. When you can draft pure BPA it's different than when you clearly need a new QB to take the franchise forward. Unless you're of the view that you want to build around Daniel Jones moving forward and that he's proven himself to be the team's franchise QB long term.
As for "winning builds character", I think this is questionable. I mean we "won" last year and what did that do for us moving forward? We also won in 2016 (11-5 record), and then 2017 was literally one of the most disgraceful, catastrophic years in the history of the franchise. I know people like to believe that winning has some sort of carry-over effect, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence of it. Plus we're not "winning" this year. We're 3-8.
Further, if anything, people tend to say that character is built during times of adversity and that the true worth of a person is how they respond to tough times, not good times. Which kind of flies directly in the face of the claim that "winning builds character."
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my own is that I have concluded this whole "winning culture" cliche is a bunch of BS. You have a "winning culture" when you're winning a lot of games, and you win a lot of games by having the best possible players. Simple as that. I don't know why we try to mystify that concept into winning being some sort of surreal force in the air. It's about the caliber of talent you're putting on the field, and there is no position that is more important than QB.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 07:04:18 AMAt that point in time we weren't looking for a new QB, so it's not really the best comparison. When you can draft pure BPA it's different than when you clearly need a new QB to take the franchise forward. Unless you're of the view that you want to build around Daniel Jones moving forward and that he's proven himself to be the team's franchise QB long term.
As for "winning builds character", I think this is questionable. I mean we "won" last year and what did that do for us moving forward? We also won in 2016 (11-5 record), and then 2017 was literally one of the most disgraceful, catastrophic years in the history of the franchise. I know people like to believe that winning has some sort of carry-over effect, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence of it. Plus we're not "winning" this year. We're 3-8.
Further, if anything, people tend to say that character is built during times of adversity and that the true worth of a person is how they respond to tough times, not good times. Which kind of flies directly in the face of the claim that "winning builds character."
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my own is that I have concluded this whole "winning culture" cliche is a bunch of BS. You have a "winning culture" when you're winning a lot of games, and you win a lot of games by having the best possible players. Simple as that. I don't know why we try to mystify that concept into winning being some sort of surreal force in the air. It's about the caliber of talent you're putting on the field, and there is no position that is more important than QB.
So nice I wish I could like it twice.
Well said.
I cannot take any QB conversation with someone who adores Mike Glennon seriously.
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 19, 2023, 04:30:34 PMWashington really lost the game more than we won it.
Quick: True. There was little to be happy with, except for players we already know are GOOD (we have a few).
As for the players we already know are BAD, they ensured it would be a close game throughout.
The only true bright spot was DeVito, who showed his best parts and avoided many of the rookie traps (this time).
The game was close throughout, so there was some pressure on him to produce.
But it's much easier to play when you've never trailed... even when a lousy offensive line.
Bob
Excited for the win, I'm glad they got it. Makes Monday a little cheerier. I wish it was against someone else though, we just seem to have the Commies number.
We are still within striking distance of a QB, I think. There are only two winnable games left, Pats and Packers, and I think they lose the Packers game too.
Embrace the win-win! If the Giants win, they win. If they lose: better draft position! It makes the games much less stressful to me. Looking forward to seeing Grumpy Belicheck next week.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 20, 2023, 09:02:25 AMI cannot take any QB conversation with someone who adores Mike Glennon seriously.
Haha. Who adores Mike Glennon?
Quote from: SlotCorner on November 20, 2023, 09:10:37 AMWe are still within striking distance of a QB, I think.
Slot: Any team with likely high 1st round pick in 2025 is within striking distance in 2024.
Also, the Giants apparently go out of their way to pick QB's who are lesser-known (Simms, Jones, etc.).
IMO, they only have one win left on the schedule, so they'll likely finish with four and get a top-7 pick.
Bob
I don't adore Mike Glennon for the record. It is a funny avatar and Glennon looked funny to me in general, especially while playing. It is kind of sad that the Daniel Jones experiment has me looking forward to such things as a funny looking, Napolean Dynamite kind of guy, playing QB here -- and admittedly very badly. But such is life in the Mara controlled Giants for the pat decade.
Quote from: Fletch on November 20, 2023, 06:18:12 AMI can't stand a QB who can't pass and relies on RPO and running. Having an edge is great. Having a tackle is great but it is not in the realm of a franchise QB which is an elite prospect.
Winning games at this point means jones still gets tone qb here which is pretty much means I have better things to do on Sunday at this point.
There are a lot of things you can do on a Sunday instead. You could go bowling , if the weather is nice , pickleball, take a nice long drive , go to the Bronx Zoo, The Botanical Guardens , go to a movie !!!
Giants 3.5 underdogs at home against Pats
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Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on November 20, 2023, 05:16:17 AMYou are a fan and you want your team to win. I remember the 2020 draft when fans were so upset that we won a game and no longer had the second pick and we would not be able to draft Chris Young , ( Everyone knew Joe Burrow was going first to the Bengels ). WE had to settle for Andrew Thomas with the fourth pick.
Winning builds character
The same way the Jets won two meaningless games against the Rams and Browns the next year and settled for the 2nd pick to draft.....Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on November 20, 2023, 11:48:16 PMThe same way the Jets won two meaningless games against the Rams and Browns the next year and settled for the 2nd pick to draft.....Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence.
Good point. For every example of draft position not mattering, there is an example of draft position mattering a lot. I'll never understand why people think drafting later doesn't have any impact on a team's likelihood of drafting a franchise QB.
Quote from: Woody on November 20, 2023, 09:35:24 PMGiants 3.5 underdogs at home against Pats
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Belichick is famous for owning rookie QBs, including ones who go on to become competent starters for the rest of their careers.
We'll see if that trend holds up in this game, with the Pats clearly needing a new QB in the next draft.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 21, 2023, 01:07:48 AMGood point. For every example of draft position not mattering, there is an example of draft position mattering a lot. I'll never understand why people think drafting later doesn't have any impact on a team's likelihood of drafting a franchise QB.
People love to emphasize the occasional exception over the overwhelmingly large sample, as if that somehow disproves that the much larger set of data is convincing.
I don't understand it either. But plenty do it, that's for sure. They think because of Brady, Russell Wilson, and a handful of others, that means it doesn't matter if you pick your QB in the top 5 versus the 3rd-7th round. It's all the same odds and an equal "crapshoot" merely because of the existence of those handful of outliers over the past few decades.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 21, 2023, 06:56:37 AMPeople love to emphasize the occasional exception over the overwhelmingly large sample, as if that somehow disproves that the much larger set of data is convincing.
I don't understand it either. But plenty do it, that's for sure. They think because of Brady, Russell Wilson, and a handful of others, that means it doesn't matter if you pick your QB in the top 5 versus the 3rd-7th round. It's all the same odds and an equal "crapshoot" merely because of the existence of those handful of outliers over the past few decades.
I think it's more than a handful of times the 1st QB taken was not the best. I am not saying I would rather pick later, but I think the data says when there is one great prospect (e.g. Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence) that is clearly above the others it usually makes big difference. On other years, or the handful of outliers as you put it (e.g, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) the draft order has not been a decider of who got a franchise QB.
Again, I agree if you are looking for a franchise QB it's better to draft earlier, but to me it looks like the exception is the years that there is one clear best QB. I think this year will be much more debatable in terms of who is the best prospect and the outcome for the QBs might be more dependent on where they go and how the team builds around them.
What I can't understand is that people seem to think that the players are just going to lay down and tank because fans think its the best for the team long-term.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 07:04:18 AMAt that point in time we weren't looking for a new QB, so it's not really the best comparison. When you can draft pure BPA it's different than when you clearly need a new QB to take the franchise forward. Unless you're of the view that you want to build around Daniel Jones moving forward and that he's proven himself to be the team's franchise QB long term.
As for "winning builds character", I think this is questionable. I mean we "won" last year and what did that do for us moving forward? We also won in 2016 (11-5 record), and then 2017 was literally one of the most disgraceful, catastrophic years in the history of the franchise. I know people like to believe that winning has some sort of carry-over effect, but I have yet to see any convincing evidence of it. Plus we're not "winning" this year. We're 3-8.
Further, if anything, people tend to say that character is built during times of adversity and that the true worth of a person is how they respond to tough times, not good times. Which kind of flies directly in the face of the claim that "winning builds character."
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my own is that I have concluded this whole "winning culture" cliche is a bunch of BS. You have a "winning culture" when you're winning a lot of games, and you win a lot of games by having the best possible players. Simple as that. I don't know why we try to mystify that concept into winning being some sort of surreal force in the air. It's about the caliber of talent you're putting on the field, and there is no position that is more important than QB.
This is the best post I have read in a long time.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 21, 2023, 08:07:36 AMI think it's more than a handful of times the 1st QB taken was not the best. I am not saying I would rather pick later, but I think the data says when there is one great prospect (e.g. Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence) that is clearly above the others it usually makes big difference. On other years, or the handful of outliers as you put it (e.g, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) the draft order has not been a decider of who got a franchise QB.
Again, I agree if you are looking for a franchise QB it's better to draft earlier, but to me it looks like the exception is the years that there is one clear best QB. I think this year will be much more debatable in terms of who is the best prospect and the outcome for the QBs might be more dependent on where they go and how the team builds around them.
What I can't understand is that people seem to think that the players are just going to lay down and tank because fans think its the best for the team long-term.
Caleb Williams will be the #1 pick in this draft regardless of who has it. If someone trades up for it...it will be to take Caleb Williams. This is a great QB class, that's true, but it does indeed have a clear #1 guy and it's Williams.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 21, 2023, 08:25:14 AMCaleb Williams will be the #1 pick in this draft regardless of who has it. If someone trades up for it...it will be to take Caleb Williams. This is a great QB class, that's true, but it does indeed have a clear #1 guy and it's Williams.
Not so sure about that. It's not just about film but about interviews and the whole mental/emotional aspect that can make a difference this year.
I think some of the online scouting media is already putting Maye ahead of Williams.
Quote from: Woody on November 20, 2023, 09:35:24 PMGiants 3.5 underdogs at home against Pats
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What? How? and Why? The Patriots are one of the worst teams in the entire NFL.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 21, 2023, 08:37:06 AMNot so sure about that. It's not just about film but about interviews and the whole mental/emotional aspect that can make a difference this year.
I think some of the online scouting media is already putting Maye ahead of Williams.
Rich Eisen explains it better than I can.
https://youtu.be/cspenpIkOfA?si=orQZ4l0Su5q6GgNu
Quote from: TDToomer on November 21, 2023, 08:54:20 AMWhat? How? and Why? The Patriots are one of the worst teams in the entire NFL.
TD: DeVito.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 21, 2023, 09:00:09 AMRich Eisen explains it better than I can.
https://youtu.be/cspenpIkOfA?si=orQZ4l0Su5q6GgNu
I wasn't referencing any of this stuff as to why teams may draft someone else higher. The noise of the pre-draft stuff is nonsense. The conversations that are had with GMs and HCs and owners is more of what I was mentioning. Williams may do great in that regard and show another reason why he should be the #1 pick. I don't know him or any of the other prospects and either do any of the people in this forum. When telling the story of drafting Manning over Leaf, Bill Polian mentions that even the scouts only have about 80% of the information. That's more of where my point lies. There is a lot of unknowns about all these prospects when it comes to their mental makeup.
It's great that Eisen has strong feelings about Williams, and he may be right, but I don't think a chasm exists between he and some other prospects in this draft like there was from Trevor Lawrence to Zach Wilson.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on November 20, 2023, 11:48:16 PMThe same way the Jets won two meaningless games against the Rams and Browns the next year and settled for the 2nd pick to draft.....Zach Wilson over Trevor Lawrence.
They
chose to settle for Zach Wilson. That's their mistake and has absolutely nothing to do with winning late games or their draft position.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 21, 2023, 08:07:36 AMI think it's more than a handful of times the 1st QB taken was not the best.
No big deal obviously, but that was not what I said at all. I'm well aware that plenty of QBs bust, including ones taken first overall or in the top 10.
My point was more that the ratio of great QBs drafted in the range where Brady or Russell Wilson were drafted versus ones drafted in the top 10 is tiny, and yet people like to emphasize the former and downplay the latter despite the overwhelming disparity in frequency, as if drafting a QB in the top 10 versus much later in the draft isn't a massive advantage, when it clearly is.
Quote from: TDToomer on November 21, 2023, 08:54:20 AMWhat? How? and Why? The Patriots are one of the worst teams in the entire NFL.
This line surprised me too. This line is saying the Giants would be 9 point dogs in NE. We were just 8.5 point dogs in Washington, and we won the game, and Washington is better than NE.
I think the reason the Pats are favored is because Belichick has a long history of owning opposing rookie QBs. I'm pretty sure that's the angle here.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 21, 2023, 09:25:05 AMNo big deal obviously, but that was not what I said at all. I'm well aware that plenty of QBs bust, including ones taken first overall or in the top 10.
My point was more that the ratio of great QBs drafted in the range where Brady or Russell Wilson were drafted versus ones drafted in the top 10 is tiny, and yet people like to emphasize the former and downplay the latter despite the overwhelming disparity in frequency, as if drafting a QB in the top 10 versus much later in the draft isn't a massive advantage, when it clearly is.
I would agree with that. I thought you were saying that drafting the 1st QB in a draft has shown to be hugely favoring getting the correct one. Like I said, when there is a clear #1 I agree. Years like this are different, but I think the best QB in the draft will be drafted in the top 10, more likely the top 5 as I could se3 3 going that high.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 21, 2023, 09:16:41 AMI wasn't referencing any of this stuff as to why teams may draft someone else higher. The noise of the pre-draft stuff is nonsense. The conversations that are had with GMs and HCs and owners is more of what I was mentioning. Williams may do great in that regard and show another reason why he should be the #1 pick. I don't know him or any of the other prospects and either do any of the people in this forum. When telling the story of drafting Manning over Leaf, Bill Polian mentions that even the scouts only have about 80% of the information. That's more of where my point lies. There is a lot of unknowns about all these prospects when it comes to their mental makeup.
It's great that Eisen has strong feelings about Williams, and he may be right, but I don't think a chasm exists between he and some other prospects in this draft like there was from Trevor Lawrence to Zach Wilson.
The chasm between Caleb and everyone else will be clear by draft day. Any GM who passes on him will be taking a career and reputation threatening risk. It won't be like passing on Allen or Mahomes.
This isn't going to be a serious debate by draft day and that's taking nothing away from Maye. I'm willing to bet the one scout in this group wasn't being honest about his true thoughts.
https://twitter.com/WBG84/status/1724802727312798043?t=twVj58X5RrBO_MQFRgSzLg&s=19
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 21, 2023, 09:45:37 AMThis isn't going to be a serious debate by draft day and that's taking nothing away from Maye. I'm willing to bet the one scout in this group wasn't being honest about his true thoughts.
https://twitter.com/WBG84/status/1724802727312798043?t=twVj58X5RrBO_MQFRgSzLg&s=19
Or he went to UCLA. There is no question that Caleb Williams is going to be the 1st pick. The only question is to which team. Maybe he turns out to stink. Anything is possible. You can go all in with pocket aces and still lose at poker. What you don't do is fold pocket aces before the flop. This kid is pocket aces.
Which again is not to say anything bad about Drake Maye or Penix or Bo Nix or Jaden Daniels or anybody else. Caleb is just a better prospect than all of them. Just like all of
them are a better prospect than Daniel Jones was before he was taken. So if the Giants do end up picking a QB in the top 5 they may well get a significant improvement over what they've been dealing with the past 5 years. The problem is they had a great chance to get an absolute stud of a prospect, in fact going into last week they had the best odds to do so, and now it seems like that proposition is all but lost.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 21, 2023, 11:45:24 AMAnything is possible. You can go all in with pocket aces and still lose at poker. What you don't do is fold pocket aces before the flop. This kid is pocket aces.
Great analogy. Couldn't agree more (with all of it).
Quote from: Bob In PA on November 21, 2023, 09:03:31 AMTD: DeVito.
And they have Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe. Mac is the 2nd worst QB in the NFL who has started every game after Pickett. Devito has a 88.9 PR compared to Mac's 80.1.
Winning a late game cost them Trevor Lawrence. They'd be a Super Bowl contender of they had Lawrence. In 1980, they won an extra game. They ended up with Freeman McNeil instead of Lawrence Taylor.
Quote from: T200 on November 21, 2023, 09:17:03 AMThey chose to settle for Zach Wilson. That's their mistake and has absolutely nothing to do with winning late games or their draft position.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 21, 2023, 11:56:28 AMWinning a late game cost them Trevor Lawrence. They'd be a Super Bowl contender of they had Lawrence. In 1980, they won an extra game. They ended up with Freeman McNeil instead of Lawrence Taylor.
Yes, it cost them Lawrence. But they didn't have to pick Wilson.
Quote from: T200 on November 21, 2023, 12:05:25 PMYes, it cost them Lawrence. But they didn't have to pick Wilson.
The idea is that if they had the #1 pick it takes the decision making out of it. That is a historically inept franchise, not unlike the Giants in recent years, if you can make the decision comically easy even a dope like Gettleman can't screw...well maybe he could....but most couldn't screw that up. Once you make a bad GM make a big decision...you get Daniel Jones at #6.
Quote from: Gmo11 on November 21, 2023, 12:07:32 PMThe idea is that if they had the #1 pick it takes the decision making out of it. That is a historically inept franchise, not unlike the Giants in recent years, if you can make the decision comically easy even a dope like Gettleman can't screw...well maybe he could....but most couldn't screw that up. Once you make a bad GM make a big decision...you get Daniel Jones at #6.
I understood. Not all first picks work out either. Sure, if you have the #1, you get the pick of the litter.
My point is that no matter where they pick, they have to do their homework and then live or die with that pick. Hoping a player works out is not the way to draft.
And our point is that winning these meaningless games in a lost season can cost you the chance to draft a player that can transform your franchise.
Quote from: T200 on November 21, 2023, 12:18:40 PMI understood. Not all first picks work out either. Sure, if you have the #1, you get the pick of the litter.
My point is that no matter where they pick, they have to do their homework and then live or die with that pick. Hoping a player works out is not the way to draft.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 21, 2023, 12:24:28 PMAnd our point is that winning these meaningless games in a lost season can cost you the chance to draft a player that can transform your franchise.
Quote from: T200 on November 21, 2023, 12:18:40 PMI understood. Not all first picks work out either. Sure, if you have the #1, you get the pick of the litter.
My point is that no matter where they pick, they have to do their homework and then live or die with that pick. Hoping a player works out is not the way to draft.
To me, this is almost a silly conversation to have about halfway through the season. I get it at the end of a horrible season, winning the last or next to last game of a horrible season does make a difference. But, given the young mediocre QBs of the Steelers or the Falcons, wouldn't it make sense for them to lose also so they could end up with their future star QB. Lots of other teams also. I'm curious how Belichick, one of greatest HCs ever, coaches against the Giants with a similar season and similar needs. I'm guessing he goes all out to win. Maybe not-ws'll see.