What are the teams out there who need a QB and have a decent oline?
Denver? Jets?
We should not just let him walk. He has value if your offense can protect him
I'd love to see the person on the other end of the phone stay on the line for more than even 15 seconds if you started the conversation by asking him if he's interested in taking Jones' disaster of a contract off our hands.
You'd have to eat part of the contract and probably give someone else a real asset to make it happen.
Forget it. Zero chance of it. Even the dumbest teams in the league (and there aren't many who are dumber than we have been for the past decade) wouldn't touch Jones with a 10 foot pool (as far as taking his contract from us).
The only way to unburden the Giants from Jones' contract would be to Osweiler him - - that is, find a team with a ton of cap space and trade Jones, his salary, and a second day pick in exchange for a third day pick.
He'll stay on PUP to avoid the $69mil dead cap hit and cut him loose in 2025.
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Only the Raiders are capable of such a blockheaded move. Jones would look good in Black and White.
Actually if Jones comes back and plays well and the Giants drafted a QB but held him back for half the season, this might make him a marketable commodity.
a better question is ....IF Tyrod comes back who plays ...Tommy or Tyrod ?
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 20, 2023, 07:35:46 AMWhat are the teams out there who need a QB and have a decent oline?
Denver? Jets?
We should not just let him walk. He has value if your offense can protect him
Not possible. CAP.
Quote from: Woody on November 20, 2023, 03:40:56 PMa better question is ....IF Tyrod comes back who plays ...Tommy or Tyrod ?
depends how he finishes the season, but right now, tommy. you know what you have in tyrod. a serviceable injury prone backup who is at the tail end of his career. tommy is an up and coming guy who, if he plays anything like he did yesterday is in serious consideration to take over qb1 next year if jones continues to struggle. lot of if's here. tyrod costs 5 million a year. tommy costs a bottle of wine at a fancy steak house.
He will be lucky to be a number 3 in the league. He just doesn't have the requisite arm talent. Teams will game plan on him and then he won't be able to do what he did yesterday. He still needlessly took sacks that no good QB takes. This notion that he has real talent seems ridiculous to me.
As fans we always over-evaluate our players but some of the DJ talk is getting out of hand. If a third string, UDFA takes Jones' job, what do you think the market for him will be, especially with his gigantic contract? We would have to send multiple picks, and eat a big share of that money just to get a 7th rounder.
If the Giants draft a QB high, Jones next stop will be as one of a couple guys hoping to prove himself on his new team. No one is signing him as a franchise QB again.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 20, 2023, 03:55:05 PMdepends how he finishes the season, but right now, tommy. you know what you have in tyrod. a serviceable injury prone backup who is at the tail end of his career. tommy is an up and coming guy who, if he plays anything like he did yesterday is in serious consideration to take over qb1 next year if jones continues to struggle. lot of if's here. tyrod costs 5 million a year. tommy costs a bottle of wine at a fancy steak house.
Do you think they are going with Tommy rest of year if Taylor is healthy in a week or two?
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Just think how happy we would all be right now in hindsight if we had just let Jones walk. I think we would be in a significantly better place as a team right now had he not been retained.
Even if he had just been tagged. I'm a Schoen guy, but that was a big mistake.
By reading some of these post. Tommy Devito will win out .....good.
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Looking forward to seeing the All-22 on the Big Blue Banter pod. I'm sure well see some big plays that were left on the field.
The BROWNS have proven to be great QB evaluators...maybe they'll fall for DJ next. LOL!!!
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Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 20, 2023, 07:52:02 PMEven if he had just been tagged. I'm a Schoen guy, but that was a big mistake.
He really didn't have a choice. Which is why they structured it so they can get out after 2024.
"which rookie QB is going to be able to develop behind this line", we just saw an undrafted practice squad QB throw 3 TD's today, a good QB with a high ceiling will be able to produce. The rest of the NFL knows this meaning no competent NFL Team will trade for Jones thinking they'll unlock something in him.
Daniel Jones can't be cut due to cap constraints but he can potentially be traded. The Giants would have a ton of dead cap but would actually have a lower cap hit assuming they could find someone desperate enough to pick up Jones' guaranteed $36 million next season.
I think it's safe to assume they won't find anyone willing to take a flier on an expensive QB with such a poor track record and coming off an ACL. Pray for Washington to bring Gettleman out of retirement. It would take something that wacky to move Daniel Jones.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 20, 2023, 04:11:12 PMHe will be lucky to be a number 3 in the league. He just doesn't have the requisite arm talent. Teams will game plan on him and then he won't be able to do what he did yesterday. He still needlessly took sacks that no good QB takes. This notion that he has real talent seems ridiculous to me.
I dont think we were watching the same game Sunday. If not REAL talent, what sort of talent produces 3 TDs and a 130 QBR, despite having a collapsing blocking wall in front of him, and a so called world class RB who purposely dodged one oncharging Wash lineman and was called out for it by the announcers who replayed the offense.
If not talented how does this happen- Swirling winds carried the ball to its destination countless times?
The same announcers also commented on what a strong arm Tommy has.
This a classic case of looking a gift horse in the mouth
I wonder what NE fans were saying when Brady replaced Bledsoe. Probably the same sort of thinking
Sometimes talent is there but never gets an opportunity. In hindsight these staggering developments that put DeVito out there might prove a blessing
Jones was regressing, not improving
We shall see
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 21, 2023, 01:01:22 AMDaniel Jones can't be cut due to cap constraints but he can potentially be traded. The Giants would have a ton of dead cap but would actually have a lower cap hit assuming they could find someone desperate enough to pick up Jones' guaranteed $36 million next season.
I think it's safe to assume they won't find anyone willing to take a flier on an expensive QB with such a poor track record and coming off an ACL. Pray for Washington to bring Gettleman out of retirement. It would take something that wacky to move Daniel Jones.
Perhaps if they were to draft a QB and then start Jones in September, and Jones plays reasonably decently, they could then move him before the deadline somehow and at least get something for him. And then DeVito could be the backup.
A lot of ifs there though. Plus I'm sure if Jones were to play "reasonably decently" next year (let's say 92 passer rating ball) and the team is something like 4-3, you'll have a chorus of people (both internally and externally) proclaiming he's "the guy" again and that he never had a real shot, and there will be calls that the correct move is to build around him for the next decade and trade the rookie. I could see Mara stepping in and basically insisting on all that, as he is obsessed with Jones' Eli-like, genteel personality.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 21, 2023, 06:44:01 AMPerhaps if they were to draft a QB and then start Jones in September, and Jones plays reasonably decently, they could then move him before the deadline somehow and at least get something for him. And then DeVito could be the backup.
A lot of ifs there though. Plus I'm sure if Jones were to play "reasonably decently" next year (let's say 92 passer rating ball) and the team is something like 4-3, you'll have a chorus of people (both internally and externally) proclaiming he's "the guy" again and that he never had a real shot, and there will be calls that the correct move is to build around him for the next decade and trade the rookie. I could see Mara stepping in and basically insisting on all that, as he is obsessed with Jones' Eli-like, genteel personality.
I would like to believe the cheap rookie contract would allow for cooler heads to prevail. Even if Mara is in full bloom love. What I don't think is that anybody would trade for Jones at the deadline. Not as long as gettleman remains unemployed anyway.
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 21, 2023, 02:57:48 AMI dont think we were watching the same game Sunday. If not REAL talent, what sort of talent produces 3 TDs and a 130 QBR, despite having a collapsing blocking wall in front of him, and a so called world class RB who purposely dodged one oncharging Wash lineman and was called out for it by the announcers who replayed the offense.
If not talented how does this happen- Swirling winds carried the ball to its destination countless times?
The same announcers also commented on what a strong arm Tommy has.
This a classic case of looking a gift horse in the mouth
I wonder what NE fans were saying when Brady replaced Bledsoe. Probably the same sort of thinking
Sometimes talent is there but never gets an opportunity. In hindsight these staggering developments that put DeVito out there might prove a blessing
Jones was regressing, not improving
We shall see
DeVito had the benefit of a very poor Washington defense that was allowing open receivers all over the field. They were loading up to stop the run figuring DeVito wouldn't hurt them with his arm. So while he did make plays, they were there for the taking. Just a poor job by del Rio in what should have been a gimme game.
We will have a better idea of DeVito's QB acumen when they take on the Pats. For all their problems this season, that coaching staff understands how to shut down a rookie QB.
Jones sucks. I don't care about him. DeVito left a lot of plays on the field. He caused sacks because he was so slow to read defenses. He was even sacked on a quick screen play call. He does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. This is a guy that got pushed out by Syracuse. I don't care what the announcers have to say. They aren't scouts. This guy was an UDFA for a reason. He made a few plays. Good for him. Thinking he's good enough to win with long term is massive wishful thinking.
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 21, 2023, 02:57:48 AMI dont think we were watching the same game Sunday. If not REAL talent, what sort of talent produces 3 TDs and a 130 QBR, despite having a collapsing blocking wall in front of him, and a so called world class RB who purposely dodged one oncharging Wash lineman and was called out for it by the announcers who replayed the offense.
If not talented how does this happen- Swirling winds carried the ball to its destination countless times?
The same announcers also commented on what a strong arm Tommy has.
This a classic case of looking a gift horse in the mouth
I wonder what NE fans were saying when Brady replaced Bledsoe. Probably the same sort of thinking
Sometimes talent is there but never gets an opportunity. In hindsight these staggering developments that put DeVito out there might prove a blessing
Jones was regressing, not improving
We shall see
If Tommy DeVito proves to be anything more than a backup for the Giants, that would be a huge accomplishment for him and his Coaches. In College, he came from systems that didn't ask him to do more than the basics. He's learning to read the entire field and he did well in some of those creative play designs we haven't seen all season. He barely breaks a 5.0 40. He's not the most gifted athlete. Like I said, in Camp he improved every day and his arm is strong enough to make good throws when he sets up. I would compare it to Tyrod Taylor's arm. He can certainly be better than some of the starters we have seen in this league. He's a nice story and I'll be rooting for him but my expectations are tempered, even though he has already exceeded them. I'll be happy if he's the Giants backup next season.
lets agree to disagree
of course the Giants will re-install Jones and likely lose Tommy to free agency
Thats their MO.....they are incompetent Losers, a clown show, it eminates from the owner. Out of the box thinking is not their forte. I am a Giants fan 50 years and doomed to follow them even to the gates of irrelevence so Mara is not going to drive me away
This all stems from Mara's conservative nature. You cannot change a zebra's stripes
Presented with a similar situation Belicheck went with Tom Brady and Parcells tapped Romo.
Think about that....Brady and Romo were BACKUPS....smart thinkers saw them as potential starters and gave them enough rope to prove it. PS Devito running a 5.0 40....are you kidding me? Thats not really a QBs most important stat is it? I wonder what Eli's 40 was. He ran like he had a refrigerator on his back
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 21, 2023, 02:57:48 AMI dont think we were watching the same game Sunday. If not REAL talent, what sort of talent produces 3 TDs and a 130 QBR, despite having a collapsing blocking wall in front of him, and a so called world class RB who purposely dodged one oncharging Wash lineman and was called out for it by the announcers who replayed the offense.
If not talented how does this happen- Swirling winds carried the ball to its destination countless times?
The same announcers also commented on what a strong arm Tommy has.
This a classic case of looking a gift horse in the mouth
I wonder what NE fans were saying when Brady replaced Bledsoe. Probably the same sort of thinking
Sometimes talent is there but never gets an opportunity. In hindsight these staggering developments that put DeVito out there might prove a blessing
Jones was regressing, not improving
We shall see
Again it was 1 game against the commanders, the same player threw for -1 yards against the Jets and has 500 yards in 5 games.
This right here is how it happens, how we end up with a horrible Qb for 5 years with everyone making excuses because we are so desperate for even decent qb play that the fan base forgets all the bad.
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 21, 2023, 12:59:47 PMlets agree to disagree
of course the Giants will re-install Jones and likely lose Tommy to free agency
Thats their MO.....they are incompetent Losers, a clown show, it eminates from the owner. Out of the box thinking is not their forte. I am a Giants fan 50 years and doomed to follow them even to the gates of irrelevence so Mara is not going to drive me away
This all stems from Mara's conservative nature. You cannot change a zebra's stripes
Presented with a similar situation Belicheck went with Tom Brady and Parcells tapped Romo.
Think about that....Brady and Romo were BACKUPS....smart thinkers saw them as potential starters and gave them enough rope to prove it. PS Devito running a 5.0 40....are you kidding me? Thats not really a QBs most important stat is it? I wonder what Eli's 40 was. He ran like he had a refrigerator on his back
His 40 is important because if you followed his college career, he uses his legs. This league is faster. He's not a strict pocket passer like Eli, who had stone feet.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 21, 2023, 01:45:35 PMHis 40 is important because if you followed his college career, he uses his legs. This league is faster. He's not a strict pocket passer like Eli, who had stone feet.
Ok Ed but a week ago we were all depressed and looking at a 10 yr rebuild
Tommy is a feel good story, a NJ high school state champ, still lives at home. He has given us hope and something to cheer about
And when he dropped that ball into Barkley I was astonished. Barkley is not the worlds best receiver...the pass was perfect
I have a feeling someone is going to offer him big bucks if he wins out, and it wont be the NY Giants thats a sad thought
I can see Belichick snapping him up
It was hilarious watching Daboll coming up with every excuse in the book to downplay the QB controversy he never ever expected.
If Devito keeps this improvement up and does win out
im curious, what would you do? I used to be in Jones camp, now I want to see him gone.
Nobody. Keep dreaming.
The play designs have been there. Jones just refused to throw or missed the throws. Hyatt has been open all the time. It is just vexing how people continually criticize coaches for QBs not being able to notice what is there.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 21, 2023, 12:35:58 PMIf Tommy DeVito proves to be anything more than a backup for the Giants, that would be a huge accomplishment for him and his Coaches. In College, he came from systems that didn't ask him to do more than the basics. He's learning to read the entire field and he did well in some of those creative play designs we haven't seen all season. He barely breaks a 5.0 40. He's not the most gifted athlete. Like I said, in Camp he improved every day and his arm is strong enough to make good throws when he sets up. I would compare it to Tyrod Taylor's arm. He can certainly be better than some of the starters we have seen in this league. He's a nice story and I'll be rooting for him but my expectations are tempered, even though he has already exceeded them. I'll be happy if he's the Giants backup next season.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 20, 2023, 04:11:12 PMHe will be lucky to be a number 3 in the league. He just doesn't have the requisite arm talent. Teams will game plan on him and then he won't be able to do what he did yesterday. He still needlessly took sacks that no good QB takes. This notion that he has real talent seems ridiculous to me.
He has an arm and made some plays, but as you say, a good number of the sacks were on him.
If he can develop, slow the game down in his head and develop some pocket awareness he could become a serviceable back up.
I don't see him as a starter, but if the kid can score a back up contract or two, he can set himself up quite well money wise.
Sure. Backup QB is a reasonable ceiling for him.
Quote from: MagicRat on November 21, 2023, 03:35:53 PMHe has an arm and made some plays, but as you say, a good number of the sacks were on him.
If he can develop, slow the game down in his head and develop some pocket awareness he could become a serviceable back up.
I don't see him as a starter, but if the kid can score a back up contract or two, he can set himself up quite well money wise.
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 21, 2023, 03:17:13 PMOk Ed but a week ago we were all depressed and looking at a 10 yr rebuild
Tommy is a feel good story, a NJ high school state champ, still lives at home. He has given us hope and something to cheer about
And when he dropped that ball into Barkley I was astonished. Barkley is not the worlds best receiver...the pass was perfect
I have a feeling someone is going to offer him big bucks if he wins out, and it wont be the NY Giants thats a sad thought
I can see Belichick snapping him up
It was hilarious watching Daboll coming up with every excuse in the book to downplay the QB controversy he never ever expected.
If Devito keeps this improvement up and does win out
im curious, what would you do? I used to be in Jones camp, now I want to see him gone.
Daboll was very complimentary in his presser. He listed all of his attributes. I thought I posted it on this thread. They wouldn't be working with Tommy and sticking with him if they didn't have plans for him being their eventual backup. If he continues to improve, I think they will protect him and BTW, I'm not sold on the Giants drafting a QB just yet. I blame Schoen and the Coaching staff for some of DJ's issues. Somewhere in there is Season One Danny Dimes and Season 4 Execution Danny and I think that's what they see. Not what I would like to see but it's possible. Arch Manning was a Redshirt Freshman for the Longhorns this year and I have to think that John Mara will be paying attention. Back to Tommy, someone mentioned his intangibles. His resilience, attitude, short memory of bad plays, and intestinal fortitude may drive him to achieve past his limitations.
I don't know where we get this QB controversy stuff from. When Tyrod Taylor comes back, he's probably the starter again unless he hasn't got the reps. DeVito is still in development, and I guarantee you Daboll thinks Tyrod is his best option to win games.
Quote from: SlotCorner on November 21, 2023, 04:08:31 PMI don't know where we get this QB controversy stuff from. When Tyrod Taylor comes back, he's probably the starter again unless he hasn't got the reps. DeVito is still in development, and I guarantee you Daboll thinks Tyrod is his best option to win games.
Ok, we have you down for a guarantee and one Free Gloat Card. ;)
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 21, 2023, 04:16:00 PMOk, we have you down for a guarantee and one Free Gloat Card. ;)
Ha! We'll see!
Giving Tommy Reps will only help him. Designing Game Plans that fit his skill-set will allow him to flourish.
There's been mention made that Washington has the worst Pass D in the NFL. An attempt to temper Tommy's success.
If he continues to hit those tight windows, thinking he'll remain the Starter as he hones his game.
His pocket awareness will improve with experience, as will his internal clock for releasing the Pigskin.
Just let Tommy do his thing and avoid over-coaching him. :yes:
As for Dimes, his contract has him guarenteed next season's salary. I don't believe he'll be ready to start the season due to rehab . Hence, who exactly would be interested in paying the crazy salary of an injury prone QB. To off-load Dimes we would likely have to subsidize his contract. I see Dimes no more than a Backup next season. Then we let him walk after the 2024 season.
He missed multiple other plays that could have resulted in TDs. He causes 6 of the 9 sacks himself. He's not a starting level QB.
Quote from: SlotCorner on November 21, 2023, 04:08:31 PMI don't know where we get this QB controversy stuff from. When Tyrod Taylor comes back, he's probably the starter again unless he hasn't got the reps. DeVito is still in development, and I guarantee you Daboll thinks Tyrod is his best option to win games.
I wouldn't call it a controversy. QBs 1 and 2 can't stay healthy enough to finish the season. QB1 will be on the roster due to his contract. I personally don't see Schoen carrying another injury-prone QB who is also using up valuable cap space. Meanwhile, QB3 is showing he has something (so far) that can help the team, even if it is in a limited role.
I'm not saying I'm sold on TD Tommy but if it's him or Tyrod, I'm going with the kid. I think Schoen will also. Keep in mind he and Daboll drafted him so they obviously thought enough of him to sign him.
Quote from: Woody on November 20, 2023, 03:40:56 PMa better question is ....IF Tyrod comes back who plays ...Tommy or Tyrod ?
It's unbelievable how I thought that we had fixed the issue of physical (un)reliability of our starting QB by signing an experienced backup QB like Tyrod. Proved to be far than ideal, where the backup QB goes down in the second game in a row.