"We'll take the best player available. If the best player available for our team is at a certain position, we'll take it. I mean, we won't shy away from it," Schoen said. "That's a ways away, the draft in April. We're still working through all that. We have to come up with a plan, like I said, just for the offseason right now. Tommy [DeVito] is the only one that's under contract, so we'll look at all different avenues there."
All roads, though, apparently lead back to Jones being the Giants primary quarterback in 2024.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/11/27/23977912/daniel-jones-will-be-giants-starting-qb-in-2024-when-healthy-gm-joe-schoen
I'll translate: "Jones will be the starting QB until such time as we get somebody better in here perhaps as soon as this April".
He can't say Jones is benched because thanks to back to back meaningless wins they may not be in position to take a QB at all and Jones will have to start and you don't want to neuter the guy before 2024 even starts. So in the event they can't get a QB in the draft, Jones is gonna start simply because they have no other options.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 27, 2023, 12:45:29 PM"We'll take the best player available. If the best player available for our team is at a certain position, we'll take it. I mean, we won't shy away from it," Schoen said. "That's a ways away, the draft in April. We're still working through all that. We have to come up with a plan, like I said, just for the offseason right now. Tommy [DeVito] is the only one that's under contract, so we'll look at all different avenues there."
All roads, though, apparently lead back to Jones being the Giants primary quarterback in 2024.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/11/27/23977912/daniel-jones-will-be-giants-starting-qb-in-2024-when-healthy-gm-joe-schoen
But he did say QB would have to be addressed either in free agency or the draft. I doubt he means a developmental 5th round QB.
"I've seen it, I mean, you guys all saw last season. I mean, the guy won 10 games, he won a road playoff game for the Giants," Schoen said. "I just think. we got punched in the nose early on and we dug ourselves a hole and we weren't able to get out of it. You know, we're, we're trying to right now, but still believe in Daniel."
Quote from: Philosophers on November 27, 2023, 12:54:42 PMBut he did say QB would have to be addressed either in free agency or the draft. I doubt he means a developmental 5th round QB.
Reading through the GM speak, he's looking for trade offers to trade down.
It's very possible they may sign a solid veteran backup and not draft a QB at all unless one of these top guys drops unexpectedly to the second round, and we've seen that before.
Sanders in 2025 may emerge as a target.
I truly believe that Oline is his number one priority and that's coming from DJ's adopted dad, JM.
That is reading in your preferences. As we all do from snippets in these pressers.
Both Schoen and Daboll said very positive things about Jones when they got hired, and then a few months later they opted not to exercise his fifth year option.
I'm not reading into anything other than actual actions with these guys. I certainly don't buy that a GM is going to publicly tip the whole league off as to what he is thinking prior to FA and the draft.
https://x.com/SNYGiants/status/1729163816305308046?s=20
QuoteOK, but what about using a first-round pick (and maybe a high one) on a quarterback in 2024?
"We'll take the best player available," Schoen said. "If the best player available for our team is at a certain position, we'll take him. We won't shy away from it."
https://www.nj.com/giants/2023/11/giants-joe-schoen-says-daniel-jones-will-be-starter-when-healthy-but-doesnt-rule-out-drafting-a-qb-high.html
https://x.com/SNYGiants/status/1729170691583246523?s=20
He says a lot but also says everything you need to know.
1. He's not sacking off Jones, or trying to destroy any trade value in a year.
2. If the Giants are in a position to draft a QB, who they believe in more, they will.
Nothing on Jones' starting future will be decided until the draft. If they spend a first rounder on a QB, you better believe he will be "their guy". If there's not a QB better than Jones, they will wait.
I don't think this does anything for Jones' job security.
I guess we will have to wait and see.
No news there. It's what I expect the statements to reflect until they draft a QB in April.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 27, 2023, 01:11:57 PMBoth Schoen and Daboll said very positive things about Jones when they got hired, and then a few months later they opted not to exercise his fifth year option.
I'm not reading into anything other than actual actions with these guys. I certainly don't buy that a GM is going to publicly tip the whole league off as to what he is thinking prior to FA and the draft.
Very true, but you have to remember that prior to this regime we had two consecutive GM's that all but gift-wrapped their decisions to the media not to mention us and the competition.
It's a new (and better) world relative to having grown ups in the room who earn respect from their peers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Maybe you don't want all the other teams know you're desperate for a QB in the draft.
Quote from: Uni on November 27, 2023, 02:21:32 PMMaybe you don't want all the other teams know you're desperate for a QB in the draft.
I think it's pretty obvious that we are regardless of whatever spin Schoen is putting out there.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 27, 2023, 12:59:03 PM"I've seen it, I mean, you guys all saw last season. I mean, the guy won 10 games, he won a road playoff game for the Giants," Schoen said. "I just think. we got punched in the nose early on and we dug ourselves a hole and we weren't able to get out of it. You know, we're, we're trying to right now, but still believe in Daniel."
He can't really say anything else because financially they are tied to him.
I'd bet good money Jones is the "starter" until devito or a draft pick beat him out which will happen.
What is Jones due to make next Year? He sure isn't sitting on the bench making all that money. If someone is stupid enough to trade for him and his contract, then we pull the trigger, but most people laughed at the money the Giants threw his way, so they won't be calling our number very often.
I have no doubt, regardless if we draft anyone who can play QB, once Jones is healthy, he will be our QB. How long he remains there will depend on his play.
2024 cap hit is $47.1mm.
2024 Yearly cash about $36mm ($46mm this year).
I would agree that Jones will be the Giants starter in the early part of the year if he can play. However, if they draft a rookie in the first round, and Jones and/or the team is not having success, I think he will come out by early/mid October if not sooner.
As far as being actively viewed as the Giants' long term solution at QB, Jones' days here are over. He'll only be on the team in 2024 because there is no economically sound way to get rid of him. We're stuck with him next year, and he gets to walk away a rather rich man despite his meager accomplishments with this organization.
We're stuck with him, but I don't think he will be ready to play to start the season honestly. After that I can't see him coming in if we're competitive without him. To be fair Jones would have won the last 2 weeks as well, but it's well chronicled we will be down 30-0 against good teams and he won't make a throw. If Devito can keep defenses honest and give us a shot against better teams no way does the team want him pulled for Jones.
I don't think the presser was fluff to build trade value though, can't imagine anyone would want him.
Look at what the Schoen has done (scouting virtually every top college QB in person... Williams, Maye, Daniels, McCarthty and Ewers) and not what he says in a meaningless mid-season press conference. In any case, his statements aren't inconsistent with the very likely 2024 scenario: Jones is on the squad due to his contract and the presumptive starter (assuming health) with a new rookie QB likely to be waiting in the wings.
Cutting Jones would be a ~$70MM cap hit next season or $47MM in 2024 and about $23MM in 2025 if they deem him a post-June 1st cut. He is not being cut, therefore the starter's job is his to lose if he is healthy. Does that mean they may not draft a qb in the first round this year? Of course not.
Quote from: Uni on November 27, 2023, 02:21:32 PMMaybe you don't want all the other teams know you're desperate for a QB in the draft.
lol exactly. Why would he say Jones isn't out starter. You gain nothing saying that and lose everything
"I expect Daniel to be our starter next year when he's healthy" is different from "Daniel Jones will be our starter next year once he's healthy."
As others have said, no reading between the lines or heavy analysis is necessary here though. We all know what the situation is, and so does the front office and coaching staff.
I think everyone, in every high profile sport, reads too much into pressers.
Schoen's talking without saying anything here.
There's so much water to flow under so many bridges before next off-season, predicting anything accurately is a crap shoot.
Both in terms of draft placement and potential draft targets.
And anyway, we're only two games (and a few tie break scenarios) out of a wild card.
Who's to say Devito to Hyatt doesn't carry us on the wildest post season run ever.... ;)
Nurse......nurse......I'm hearing the voices again......
Schoen can spin the Dimes speak any way he wants to. That's right up to the min. we trade up for our Franchise QB.
:smug:
Quote from: MagicRat on November 28, 2023, 12:56:16 AMI think everyone, in every high profile sport, reads too much into pressers.
Schoen's talking without saying anything here.
There's so much water to flow under so many bridges before next off-season, predicting anything accurately is a crap shoot.
Both in terms of draft placement and potential draft targets.
And anyway, we're only two games (and a few tie break scenarios) out of a wild card.
Who's to say Devito to Hyatt doesn't carry us on the wildest post season run ever.... ;)
Nurse......nurse......I'm hearing the voices again......
=))
I feel like there are a lot of fans who are really hoping Joe Schoen isn't being as candid here as he has absolutely been with every question he's been asked since becoming GM. In other words- I'd say it seems probable that he means what he says here and is not as focused on drafting a QB high as many fans are. It's probable he still feels DJ is the guy...because he just said he's expecting DJ to be the starter and they still believe in him.
Which means it's also probable we're going to have another meltdown on this board on draft night. YIPPEEE!!!
Ed... sanders has a spine injury. saw it yesterday on espn crawl. said he's not sure when it happened. sadly for him, not a good omen.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on November 28, 2023, 08:47:47 AMI feel like there are a lot of fans who are really hoping Joe Schoen isn't being as candid here as he has absolutely been with every question he's been asked since becoming GM. In other words- I'd say it seems probable that he means what he says here and is not as focused on drafting a QB high as many fans are. It's probable he still feels DJ is the guy...because he just said he's expecting DJ to be the starter and they still believe in him.
Which means it's also probable we're going to have another meltdown on this board on draft night. YIPPEEE!!!
I think he's speaking in the moment since the draft isn't here yet.
He didn't say he isn't focused on the draft. If he's a good GM, those conversations have already been had and they have names on their draft board.
As far as believing in Jones, DJ is due to make 47 million next year. He needs to be the starter when he's healthy. No one should feel good about a healthy 47 million sitting on the bench, unless the rookie they draft is just lighting it up.
Jones will not be on the team in 2025. His health alone will be more than enough reason for Schoen to let him walk.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on November 28, 2023, 08:47:47 AMI feel like there are a lot of fans who are really hoping Joe Schoen isn't being as candid here as he has absolutely been with every question he's been asked since becoming GM. In other words- I'd say it seems probable that he means what he says here and is not as focused on drafting a QB high as many fans are. It's probable he still feels DJ is the guy...because he just said he's expecting DJ to be the starter and they still believe in him.
Which means it's also probable we're going to have another meltdown on this board on draft night. YIPPEEE!!!
Bing!
Quote from: President Rick on November 28, 2023, 08:54:29 AMEd... sanders has a spine injury. saw it yesterday on espn crawl. said he's not sure when it happened. sadly for him, not a good omen.
That's sad if it ends his career. 52 sacks
I expect Daniel JOnes to start and play here as soon as he can. I don't think the Giants will be in a position to draft a QB in the higher ranks or will even do so.
Daniel jones remains the QB here even if it means Devito starting in weeks 1 and 2 next year. And Daniel Jones will remain QB here for at least 2 more years. This is al much ado about nothing.
I think it was a mistake for Schoen to say that. He simply does not know how next camp and early season games will play out. If the Giants have a new FA QB, a rookie QB, Tyrod or DeVito playing well and the Giants are 5-1, you can be certain that once healthy Dabs would pull that effective starter just to make DJ a starter. No way I see that happening. It would be one thing if it was Brady or Mahommes or somebody great but not someone of DJ's caliber.
Quote from: Fletch on November 28, 2023, 09:46:31 AMI expect Daniel JOnes to start and play here as soon as he can. I don't think the Giants will be in a position to draft a QB in the higher ranks or will even do so.
Daniel jones remains the QB here even if it means Devito starting in weeks 1 and 2 next year. And Daniel Jones will remain QB here for at least 2 more years. This is al much ado about nothing.
Talk about depressing.
Quote from: PSUBeirut on November 28, 2023, 08:47:47 AMI feel like there are a lot of fans who are really hoping Joe Schoen isn't being as candid here as he has absolutely been with every question he's been asked since becoming GM. In other words- I'd say it seems probable that he means what he says here and is not as focused on drafting a QB high as many fans are. It's probable he still feels DJ is the guy...because he just said he's expecting DJ to be the starter and they still believe in him.
Which means it's also probable we're going to have another meltdown on this board on draft night. YIPPEEE!!!
It would be crazy to believe, at this point, that Daniel Jones is anything more than what he has shown himself to be. I don't believe Schoen is a crazy person, though he did replace one, so I have to believe he's saying what he needs to say in the event they can't upgrade that position like they very much intend to next season.
They cannot move off of Jones until after next season. He's going to be here. And if he's going to be here they can't say right now that he's absolutely not the starter next season. They have no choice but to say that, as of right now, if healthy he's the starter. And if they draft Daniels/Penix/Nix with the 4th pick in the draft, at that point, healthy or not Jones will very likely NOT be the starter. Certainly not the entire season.
Let's say the Giants get a blue chip QB in the draft and name him the starter. He will make some rookie mistakes and right away there is a QB controversy. Some players want to win now not in a couple of years-some younger players may have patience. Better bet is to start Jones and let the blue chip QB learn.
Another option is trade down for a couple of lower round 1 or round 2 picks and get some serious help for the O line. Maybe use one pick as trade bait for a solid younger free agent right tackle or guard and one pick for a top O line draft choice. We have 2 good linemen- at center and left tackle- let's fill the other 3 spots which are woefully weak.
A solid O line turns mediocre QBs into good QBs and opens holes for runners. Just look at the 07 and 11 Giants.
When I was a kid. I mean a very long time ago, I once met Howard Cosell. I was maybe 13 when I met him. I made the mistake of wearing a NY Giants T-shirt. Howard, being Howard stared at the shirt and asked this 13-year old, if I recall correctly, "Do you, young man, subscribe to the mediocrities and failures of a football franchise?" Of course I had no answer. But Howard was right when he said it. The Giants in those days (1970's) were mediocre at best. This was pre-George Young. And now, many years later, we are all subscribing once again to the mediocrities and failures of a football franchise. Our hope is that Joel Schoen is the modern-day George Young. That he will ignore the wishes of the owner and do what is right for the franchise. I am tired of mediocrity. I'm tired of failure. I don't care about meaningless games in November and December. I want to see the Giants become the Ravens or Steelers (and...gasp...currently the Eagles): model NFL franchises and mostly perennial winners. To do that you have to take risks. You can't sit on your hands. If you ignore what is obvious to everyone outside of the organization just to please those within the organization you are doomed to fail. Or at best, remain at the status quo. The Giants must address the most important position on the field. They must do what it takes to make that happen. Let us hope Schoen has the acumen to do that.
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 28, 2023, 10:46:36 AMLet's say the Giants get a blue chip QB in the draft and name him the starter. He will make some rookie mistakes and right away there is a QB controversy. Some players want to win now not in a couple of years-some younger players may have patience. Better bet is to start Jones and let the blue chip QB learn.
Another option is trade down for a couple of lower round 1 or round 2 picks and get some serious help for the O line. Maybe use one pick as trade bait for a solid younger free agent right tackle or guard and one pick for a top O line draft choice. We have 2 good linemen- at center and left tackle- let's fill the other 3 spots which are woefully weak.
A solid O line turns mediocre QBs into good QBs and opens holes for runners. Just look at the 07 and 11 Giants.
The problem with that is Jones isn't mediocre to be in a position to ever become good.
Teams lines aren't made up of 1st and 2nd rd picks. Most are 5th and 6th rd picks, we can't keep doing that. We've got to get a couole guys in FA, and a new oline coach and let guys develop. Because we can't keep wasting draft capital on the oline.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 28, 2023, 12:50:15 PMa new oline coach and let guys develop. Because we can't keep wasting draft capital on the oline.
I couldn't agree more with this. I want to see what a new coach can do before more get more high end linemen
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 28, 2023, 12:50:15 PMThe problem with that is Jones isn't mediocre to be in a position to ever become good.
Teams lines aren't made up of 1st and 2nd rd picks. Most are 5th and 6th rd picks, we can't keep doing that. We've got to get a couole guys in FA, and a new oline coach and let guys develop. Because we can't keep wasting draft capital on the oline.
You really think Jones is not even mediocre? His biggest drawback is his inability to stay healthy. Give him a strong line, and he will be a serviceable QB. Plus you got a lot of $$ tied up with him in 24.
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 28, 2023, 01:39:58 PMGive him a strong line, and he will be a serviceable QB.
Can we agree that this statement can be applied to almost every starter, plus many backups, on NFL rosters right now?
"Mediocre" to me means average or maybe slightly below average. I personally don't see how the statement you made negates that description of Jones in any way.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 28, 2023, 01:56:11 PMCan we agree that this statement can be applied to almost every starter, plus many backups, on NFL rosters right now?
"Mediocre" to me means average or maybe slightly below average. I personally don't see how the statement you made negates that description of Jones in any way.
I disagree. He is a flawed QB....his thinking and release are really bad
Its not a physical issue with Jones, its a mental problem
He is wound too tight and tries too hard.....nothing flows
He is terrified of making a mistake and thus wears out the punters leg
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 28, 2023, 02:05:26 PMI disagree. He is a flawed QB....his thinking and release are really bad
Its not a physical issue with Jones, its a mental problem
He is wound too tight and tries too hard.....nothing flows
He is terrified of making a mistake and thus wears out the punters leg
I think you may have misunderstood my point, or maybe I didn't articulate it well. In any case I was not defending Jones.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 28, 2023, 02:08:47 PMI think you may have misunderstood my point, or maybe I didn't articulate it well. In any case I was not defending Jones.
Sorry about that DaveB. My bad
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 28, 2023, 02:28:34 PMSorry about that DaveB. My bad
No probs at all. I'm sure I could have stated it better.
:cheers:
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 28, 2023, 01:39:58 PMYou really think Jones is not even mediocre? His biggest drawback is his inability to stay healthy. Give him a strong line, and he will be a serviceable QB. Plus you got a lot of $$ tied up with him in 24.
What in his 5 year career has shown you that he is serviceable? Absolutely nothing is the answer. Devito and Tyrod have both significantly outplayed our 40 million a year quarterback which should never happen. Him and Davis Mills had the same yardage last year, and Mills got replaced by a rookie in stroud.
If the answer to any question regarding the future of this team is Daniel Jones then it should be seen as a complete failure on the front office regardless of what we are paying him.
Yes we made a mistake paying Jones, look at when the 49ers, Eagles, Chiefs make a mistake, they don't double, and triple down, they cut bait and deal with it. So we made a mistake, let's now not double down on that mistake by continuing to play him.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 28, 2023, 03:50:25 PMWhat in his 5 year career has shown you that he is serviceable? Absolutely nothing
Last year showed he is serviceable. My main issue with Jones is his inability to stay healthy.
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 28, 2023, 06:49:00 PMLast year showed he is serviceable. My main issue with Jones is his inability to stay healthy.
That wasn't serviceable, he only threw above 200 yards 6 times last year. In the modern NFL you have to have a Qb that can throw at a high volume, and Jones can't do that. His processing is bad, and our offense will continue to be in the bottom of the league as long as he is behind center.
Quote from: Ed Vette on November 27, 2023, 12:45:29 PM"We'll take the best player available. If the best player available for our team is at a certain position, we'll take it. I mean, we won't shy away from it," Schoen said. "That's a ways away, the draft in April. We're still working through all that. We have to come up with a plan, like I said, just for the offseason right now. Tommy [DeVito] is the only one that's under contract, so we'll look at all different avenues there."
All roads, though, apparently lead back to Jones being the Giants primary quarterback in 2024.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/11/27/23977912/daniel-jones-will-be-giants-starting-qb-in-2024-when-healthy-gm-joe-schoen
sounds like a bunch of double speak to me
Schoen has no ties to Jones. He didnt draft him and did not activate his option.
Certainly Jones performance this year does not call for a repeat
I do not think Jones will be our QB next year. Schoen will find a way to unload Jones
He likely will be a starting QB, he didnt say for which team LOL
Quote from: BluesCruz on November 29, 2023, 01:12:27 PMsounds like a bunch of double speak to me
Schoen has no ties to Jones. He didnt draft him and did not activate his option.
Certainly Jones performance this year does not call for a repeat
I do not think Jones will be our QB next year. Schoen will find a way to unload Jones
Schoen never said he would not take a QB, he said when Jones is healthy, he is the QB.
With 69 mill dead cap next year I would expect jones to be the QB and allow the Oline to further develop.
Either build up his value and trade him or let him exist while the new QB gets comfortable, and the line develops more.
All this being said I agree, its double talk setting Schoen up for the draft. he hides his intentions much better than DG ever did.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 29, 2023, 10:07:28 AMThat wasn't serviceable, he only threw above 200 yards 6 times last year. In the modern NFL you have to have a Qb that can throw at a high volume, and Jones can't do that. His processing is bad, and our offense will continue to be in the bottom of the league as long as he is behind center.
I guess making the playoffs and winning a game with a third rate line and 2nd rate receivers doesn't qualify as serviceable in your eyes. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. We are talking about the term "serviceable" not terms like outstanding or good.
Quote from: Quick Kick on November 29, 2023, 02:29:37 PMI guess making the playoffs and winning a game with a third rate line and 2nd rate receivers doesn't qualify as serviceable in your eyes. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. We are talking about the term "serviceable" not terms like outstanding or good.
We made the playoffs on several last minute wins in the 1st quarter of the season with a cupcake schedule. Jones had a good game against a historically bad secondary and defense and then the very next week crumbled against an actual NFL team. If Serviceable doesn't mean good, then why wouldn't we just go with Devito or Tyrod? Both outplayed Jones easily this year in the games they were in.
I logically can't see how any fan of the NY Giants who has watched Jones for 5 years would want or even say "yeah give me more of that please". Averaging what 165 yards passing with 1 Td and 2 turnovers a game.
But your right that's my opinion. That Jones is a backup and unless something goes horribly wrong we can only hope he never sees the field again as our starter. I like that guy as a human, just not as the qb for this franchise.
I guess we will find out next year how good Jones is (provided he can stay healthy) cause Jones is not going anywhere in 24 due to his contract-unless they can trade him.
Huge Jones fan when drafted in for a few years that followed, but I'm in the camp with most here time to move on. Is far is what comes out of New York giant headquarters I hold it with the grain of salt.... What do you expect them to say?
Joon is on the books for next year regardless to anyone here thinks... if the Giants say anything negative about Jones, it would hurt any possible trade value, if any that we can get for him. I expect the Giants to draft any position any player they can get their hands on, and if there's a quarterback that falls to us I don't think we hesitate and we pull the trigger