I am looking at the Giant's schedule and I started thinking what if it were reversed, like we played a lot of these 'beatable teams' early on instead of starting with Dallas, SF, and then Miami, Bills, and Seahawks? I think we might have a different opinion of our team. Sure we are bad, but when we play teams equally bad, we play better and if we had played our later schedule earlier in the season, we may have gained lots of confidence, and who really knows how the rest of the season would go?
Sure, we aren't in the Dallas, Buffalo, or SF league, but with some confidence, we might have made the Raiders game a lot more competitive, along with the Jets.
We started out getting destroyed by most of the top teams in the league and that left us for dead. but again, what if our schedule were in reverse and we played these teams later in the season? We still would get destroyed by most, but as fans, we wouldn't be looking for other things to do on a Sunday afternoon.
When we play certain teams determine how a season can go upwards or spiral out of control downwards.
We beat the Commanders twice, we beat Arizona, we beat the Pats and we have a decent enough chance at beating the Packers or the Saints. I don't think we can beat the Rams. and never beat the Eagles. But if we started with the easier part of our schedule first, and built up a winning record, I think we beat the Jets and the Raiders. At least we wouldn't be looking at the #1 draft pick for most of the season, we would be looking at a wild card.
DJs horrific pick 6 week one ended our season because it took AT out and showed what a primetime clown DJ is
Good point Lenn. Not only did we face the toughest teams early, but they were Sunday Night, Monday Night, and prime times, where the Giants have a history of playing poorly. It was uncanny how badly the genuises in the NFL building the schedule, basically put the hurt to the Giants
We got lucky playing some patsy teams the last couple of weeks though...and if not for turnovers in our favor, we might have lost them both. We might win one or two games to close out the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if we lost them all. Too many injuries...again. We can't lose DJ, Thomas, Dex, Neal, Waller, etc., and expect to dominate any of the upcoming games
Bright spot: the defensive backfield has done a stellar job
Dark spot: the obligatory OL, but a really big one is lack of a decent (even adequate) punt/kick returner. We absolutely suck at returning...I have to hold my breath every time our punt returner is reaching out to catch the ball. Keeps us in bad field position and early on, we were lucky if we simply caught the friggin ball, let alone ran it back for decent yards...I digress (just feel like bitching I guess)
I was seriously disappointed in the Waller performance. We had such hopes but he hardly ever made YAC or was behind a defender when he caught a ball. I won't say golladay 2.0 but we could have done more and better with two FA O-linemen than we did with his stats.
I'm not sure I buy this. The schedule is the schedule, nobody was complaining last year when they played one, maybe two top ten defences all year. I went through the numbers in the summer pointing this out, nobody was interested.
The vast majority of Giants fandom were elated putting away victories on a favourable schedule, led by Barkley for the first half a dozen games, then a mini-collapse before Jones rounded into the best month of his life and played really well against the Vikes, Colts, Washington and the Vikes again. None of which are super powers. When they faced one, they flamed out.
The off season was spent in a Barkley v Jones dilemma and the hope was to build on a pretty remarkable season which was bookended by very winnable games.
The front office and management rested on their laurels; the camp by all accounts was "soft" and not demanding, the starters didn't play in the preseason save for 9 plays vs the worst team of the year, and yes it clicked but since then, nothing has.
Roster management was questionable over the summer. The Giants could have sorted the often neglected return position but let Crowder walk in favour of bringing back a good guy in Shepard who has brought 7 catches, 39 yards and 1 TD to the table. When's the last time they had a legit returner? Hixon?
The Giants over paid for Jones, who has played worse than ever and he simply didn't progress. Nothing more epitomised that than the airmailed throw to an open Barkley in the flat on the first or second play of the Raiders game. Excuses have rained down for Jones, he's had a longer lease than anyone I've ever known in my near decade on this board. Ultimately,
an UDFA Qb has thrown for 4x as many TDs as Jones, in 2 fewer games when he was allowed to throw the ball. And whilst some may comment on the opposition he's faced, he's playing in 5 total game compared to Jones who has had over 60 so I think it's completely fair to expect so much better from the $40mil guy. And no, I don't think TdV is the future either.
So for me, it's not the schedule, it's poor decision after decision from March/April onward that has led us here. And for that reason alone, this off-season is the biggest JS will face. If he messes up again, he might not get too many more.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on November 28, 2023, 06:35:41 PMI'm not sure I buy this. The schedule is the schedule, nobody was complaining last year when they played one, maybe two top ten defences all year. I went through the numbers in the summer pointing this out, nobody was interested.
The vast majority of Giants fandom were elated putting away victories on a favourable schedule, led by Barkley for the first half a dozen games, then a mini-collapse before Jones rounded into the best month of his life and played really well against the Vikes, Colts, Washington and the Vikes again. None of which are super powers. When they faced one, they flamed out.
The off season was spent in a Barkley v Jones dilemma and the hope was to build on a pretty remarkable season which was bookended by very winnable games.
The front office and management rested on their laurels; the camp by all accounts was "soft" and not demanding, the starters didn't play in the preseason save for 9 plays vs the worst team of the year, and yes it clicked but since then, nothing has.
Roster management was questionable over the summer. The Giants could have sorted the often neglected return position but let Crowder walk in favour of bringing back a good guy in Shepard who has brought 7 catches, 39 yards and 1 TD to the table. When's the last time they had a legit returner? Hixon?
The Giants over paid for Jones, who has played worse than ever and he simply didn't progress. Nothing more epitomised that than the airmailed throw to an open Barkley in the flat on the first or second play of the Raiders game. Excuses have rained down for Jones, he's had a longer lease than anyone I've ever known in my near decade on this board. Ultimately,
an UDFA Qb has thrown for 4x as many TDs as Jones, in 2 fewer games when he was allowed to throw the ball. And whilst some may comment on the opposition he's faced, he's playing in 5 total game compared to Jones who has had over 60 so I think it's completely fair to expect so much better from the $40mil guy. And no, I don't think TdV is the future either.
So for me, it's not the schedule, it's poor decision after decision from March/April onward that has led us here. And for that reason alone, this off-season is the biggest JS will face. If he messes up again, he might not get too many more.
Ed
You may be right on many points, as Jones will always be Jones, but, and for sure, I am not defending Jones, but we faced some of the toughest pass rushes thru our first 6-7 games and Jones got killed. What if we faced the Pats, the Packers, the Commanders and a couple of others, who do not have the greatest pass rushers? Maybe Jones gains some confidence, maybe our OL feels a bit better about themselves. Who really knows?
Look, as I said, we are not a good football team. We weren't a good football team last year either, but we got breaks, bounces and we made the most of them. We started out 1-7 or something like that, maybe if we played the schedule in reverse, we might be 4-4, 5-3 and play with a lot more confidence.
The Giants should have beaten the Jets and they may have beaten some of the teams they are about to face, which may have given them confidence but the hypothetical kicks in.
Would Jones have gotten injured and been out for the season?
Would Tommy DeVito have ever seen the field and how would that impacted next season. I think we need to see how he gets up to speed and if he can beat a good team.
I think making excuses about the tough schedule when you're 4-8 is a losing culture type of narrative, if there are such things as "winning cultures" and "losing cultures." I didn't like the way Schoen quickly brought up the tough schedule as a way of explaining this bad of a season. We are barely beating terrible teams and generally need 3-6 turnovers by the opponent to barely scrape by. We get blown out by good teams and barely beat bad teams. The one exception was the Buffalo game, which we lost.
The problem isn't the schedule. The problem is that we don't have good enough players.
Admittedly injuries hurt too, but welcome to the NFL. They are everywhere.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 28, 2023, 08:04:54 PMI think making excuses about the tough schedule when you're 4-8 is a losing culture type of narrative, if there are such things as "winning cultures" and "losing cultures." I didn't like the way Schoen quickly brought up the tough schedule as a way of explaining this bad of a season. We are barely beating terrible teams and generally need 3-6 turnovers by the opponent to barely scrape by. We get blown out by good teams and barely beat bad teams. The one exception was the Buffalo game, which we lost.
The problem isn't the schedule. The problem is that we don't have good enough players.
Admittedly injuries hurt too, but welcome to the NFL. They are everywhere.
The Giants are exactly where they should be, schedule aside. They were not prepared for the beginning of the season. They lost a couple of games they could have won, and won a couple they could easily have lost. They are their record.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 28, 2023, 08:04:54 PMI think making excuses about the tough schedule when you're 4-8 is a losing culture type of narrative, if there are such things as "winning cultures" and "losing cultures." I didn't like the way Schoen quickly brought up the tough schedule as a way of explaining this bad of a season. We are barely beating terrible teams and generally need 3-6 turnovers by the opponent to barely scrape by. We get blown out by good teams and barely beat bad teams. The one exception was the Buffalo game, which we lost.
The problem isn't the schedule. The problem is that we don't have good enough players.
Admittedly injuries hurt too, but welcome to the NFL. They are everywhere.
Dave
In no way was I complaining about the schedule, we play who we are assigned to play. I was just 'wondering' why we got so many top-tier teams right at the beginning. As I have said, say we got our second-half schedule and played that in the first half, would your attitude be different if we were 4-4 or even 5-3 maybe beating those teams who are on the same par with us? We got trounced from the opening kickoff and we never recovered. What would have been if we opened against the Pats and then Commanders and maybe then the Packers? Just thinking, might we have been 3-1 to start the season and how would the fans think about the 'lowly' Giants then?
Quote from: LennG on November 28, 2023, 09:05:19 PMDave
In no way was I complaining about the schedule, we play who we are assigned to play. I was just 'wondering' why we got so many top-tier teams right at the beginning. As I have said, say we got our second-half schedule and played that in the first half, would your attitude be different if we were 4-4 or even 5-3 maybe beating those teams who are on the same par with us? We got trounced from the opening kickoff and we never recovered. What would have been if we opened against the Pats and then Commanders and maybe then the Packers? Just thinking, might we have been 3-1 to start the season and how would the fans think about the 'lowly' Giants then?
Lenn,
I really was referencing Schoen, not you. The GM of a team shouldn't be bitching about the schedule. Especially after we had it as easy as we did last year. When I made the "losing culture" remark I was referring to his answer, not anything you said.
As to your question, I don't really have that view myself. We are barely scraping by terrible teams, so I have no reason to think we would have a different record if you jumbled the order of the games. I think we're 4-8 because we're bad, not because of the order in which we played the games.