Big Blue Huddle

Pick Top Priority and Draft Strategy.

QB and trade-up (if necessary and the opportunity is available).

My answer also depends on the obviously necessary condition that our front office firmly believes that one or more of the QB prospects that are obtainable to them have a strong chance of being elite.

I'm for trading down and for the Oline. Evans is a bust- Human Turnstile

We have a QB- Tommy D.  Who is amongst the hottest QBs in the NFL right now.  We have had a huge gift dropped in our laps and everyone seems to want some untested college QB.  NFL untested that is.  No way we do that if DeVito continue to win.  Would be madness.

Think about it.  How many NFL teams have had this happen- SFO with Purdy and thats it.  Well back in the day there was Kurt Warner
Tommy makes less than 1 million per year which makes up for writing off what we owe Jones

Id keep Jones personally, and make him the 1st backup.

QB #1
Trade up for QB #2

Quote from: LennG on December 02, 2023, 12:56:34 PMQB #1
Trade up for QB #2

So pick two QB's? For the odds of getting one right?

So the majority looks like QB and sit for a choice of who's still on the board to choose from.

I picked qb and trade up because if you find a guy that you think is elite you do whatever you need to in order to get him.

It's a little moot to try and devine what the situation will be by the time the draft is here. Things to consider: what free agents we sign (ours and from other teams); the measure of faith the front office and coaches have in DJ; Injuries yet to happen in the last few games; coaching changes;,etc

I picked: "Edge" and "Trade down for more picks". If we could trade down (no further than 10-12) and pick up another 2nd and maybe next year's 1st, I'd be all for it UNLESS Harrison was on the board when we're up to bat...then throw all my opinions out the door, run to the podium, and get us Harrison

I believe the team is sticking with DJ regardless of fan sentiment. They know what they want, they pretty much know what they have in DJ, and the book is still out on how he can perform behind a decent NFL line in front of him. The decision makers are far more "football smart" than fans and they tune out all the bitching and whining and go with their analysis of players based on dozens of things fans tend to ignore

As far as EDGE goes, you can never have too many stud pass rushers. It opens up all the other players on defense to excel when the QB is on his heels, running for his life, or digging up turf with his face mask

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 02, 2023, 12:34:48 PMQB and trade-up (if necessary and the opportunity is available).

My answer also depends on the obviously necessary condition that our front office firmly believes that one or more of the QB prospects that are obtainable to them have a strong chance of being elite.

Ditto.

Thanks for saving me having to type "our" thoughts  ;)   :ok:

Quarterback. Maye, McCarthy, Daniels, or maybe Ewers. (Definitely NOT Williams, Penix or Nix.)

If that fails and Harrison Jr. is available, you take him.

If we don't get either, take a stud linebacker or trade down for more picks to rebuild the offensive line.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 02, 2023, 01:02:14 PMSo pick two QB's? For the odds of getting one right?

Pick #1 QB, if we aren't in a position to get the guy we want, trade up.

I should have said option #1, option #2.

We have a lot of holes. DJ's contract has him here next year albeit not necessarily ready to play. If Drake Maye somehow falls to us then take him (no trade up as we have too many needs).

Otherwise trade back as we need starters all over the OL, a true WR1, Edge2,DT/DE Leo replacement, FS and CB2. If a trade back means we can address four rather than two needs we will have a much better platform for the new QB in '25. A QB we will be able to take high if we ride with Tommy for a season.

On the issue of trading back, we have to keep in mind that adding more picks doesn't automatically mean filling more holes. Let's keep in mind a couple years ago, when the guy they wanted was taken, they traded out of the 11th spot in exchange for 4 picks. They could have sat tight and taken one of Micah Parsons, Rashawn Slater, or Alijah Vera-Tucker, who were the next three players drafted and any of whom would have filled a major hole for the Giants. Instead they ended up with Kadarius Toney, Aaron Robinson, Evan Neal, and Daniel Bellinger.

Collectively those 4 guys haven't filled any holes and took up more of the salary cap than they would've spent had they kept the 11th pick.

One other interesting fact, they traded up from 76th to 70th for Aaron Robinson. Robinson has barely played over 3 years. Meanwhile, the guy drafted at #76 is Saints CB Paulson Adebo who is having an All Pro type season.

Bottom line with the draft is they have to do a better job picking good players. I don't want to blame Schoen for Gettleman's screw ups, but even Schoen has a lot to prove.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 04, 2023, 09:39:00 AMOn the issue of trading back, we have to keep in mind that adding more picks doesn't automatically mean filling more holes. Let's keep in mind a couple years ago, when the guy they wanted was taken, they traded out of the 11th spot in exchange for 4 picks. They could have sat tight and taken one of Micah Parsons, Rashawn Slater, or Alijah Vera-Tucker, who were the next three players drafted and any of whom would have filled a major hole for the Giants. Instead they ended up with Kadarius Toney, Aaron Robinson, Evan Neal, and Daniel Bellinger.

Collectively those 4 guys haven't filled any holes and took up more of the salary cap than they would've spent had they kept the 11th pick.

One other interesting fact, they traded up from 76th to 70th for Aaron Robinson. Robinson has barely played over 3 years. Meanwhile, the guy drafted at #76 is Saints CB Paulson Adebo who is having an All Pro type season.

Bottom line with the draft is they have to do a better job picking good players. I don't want to blame Schoen for Gettleman's screw ups, but even Schoen has a lot to prove.

Doc: Nice post. Never heard from people I talk to why Giants did not want Parsons and it's still pissing me off.

Perhaps it was character concerns but IMO virtually NO ONE thought he could play with his hand in the dirt. 

In other words, they may have concluded that a pure linebacker just wasn't worth such a high pick.

Same with Barkley ("RB's just aren't worth such high picks").  Well, sometimes a guy breaks the mold.

In Barkley's case, he proved himself to be a top NFL player. We'd never hear the end of it if he had busted.

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 04, 2023, 09:54:57 AMDoc: Nice post. Never heard from people I talk to why Giants did not want Parsons and it's still pissing me off.

Perhaps it was character concerns but IMO virtually NO ONE thought he could play with his hand in the dirt. 

In other words, they may have concluded that a pure linebacker just wasn't worth such a high pick.

Same with Barkley ("RB's just aren't worth such high picks").  Well, sometimes a guy breaks the mold.

In Barkley's case, he proved himself to be a top NFL player. We'd never hear the end of it if he had busted.

Bob

Bob, I "liked" your comments on Parsons and am choosing to remain agnostic on your Barkley comments. We can hash that one out another day. Lol.

Drafting a QB means they would need to keep three QB's on the Roster in order to protect DeVito. We will see how he plays the rest of the season as to whether they want to protect him or not. Jones will be back at some point.

Almost every QB in this draft has some tarnish. The only two that moved up for me are Daniels and Penik. Again my assessment, but Maye and Williams dropped substantially from a month ago, Nix and McCarthy dropped too but they weren't as high to begin with.

I rank them;

Daniels
Williams
Maye
Penik
Nix
McCarthy (should stay another year)

i voted wait for BPA and trade down for picks. we are in no position to say any 1 player is going to change this franchise. we are so bereft of talent, we need all the help we can get. if theres a guy there  (latu, nabers, alt), and we feel they can be a cornerstone player, take em. if you arent totally sold on them, then trade down and grab another 2nd round pick. that would give us 3 2nd rounders and a 1st. if theres a guy we felt strongly about thats still there mid 1st, trade back up. play the game. i'd be more than happy to have a mid-late 1st and 3 2's. you can do a lot with that. some of our best picks over the last decade have been 2nd rounders.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 02, 2023, 02:35:04 PMI picked qb and trade up because if you find a guy that you think is elite you do whatever you need to in order to get him.

So give away the house and the barn to get a guy you THINK will become a franchise player?!!
How often have teems picking at the top or near it have missed?
How often franchise players were picked below the top 5 or even 10?

Unless we were one or two players away from being a great team, that strategy to me is totally wrong.

Quote from: GloryDays on December 04, 2023, 05:11:44 PMSo give away the house and the barn to get a guy you THINK will become a franchise player?!!
How often have teems picking at the top or near it have missed?
How often franchise players were picked below the top 5 or even 10?

Unless we were one or two players away from being a great team, that strategy to me is totally wrong.

Well if Jones hadn't been a complete and utter bust then we wouldn't be in this situation. Sadly it took 5 years to realize that for management and most fans.

Qbs win football games, yes it Is a team sport and other players matter too but even this year if we have CJ Stroud under center instead of Jones even with the injuries I think we are in the playoffs easily. That's how quickly things move when you change one position.

Yes Jalen Hurts, and Lamar Jackson were picked later on but besides them every other elite Qb has gone in the top 10. I would much rather the organization be aggressive and get their guy by any means necessary than just waiting around to continue losing.

So if we give up multiple draft picks and hit on a guy it's amazing and even if they don't hit at least they tried. Better that than trotting Jones out for another irrelevant year.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 04, 2023, 05:19:35 PMWell if Jones hadn't been a complete and utter bust then we wouldn't be in this situation. Sadly it took 5 years to realize that for management and most fans.

IT IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT JONES IS A BUST, I personally still believe that if we have a more reliable O line, that can produce some running lanes and 3-4 seconds of time for receivers to get open, DJ will be very effective.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 04, 2023, 05:19:35 PMQbs win football games, yes it Is a team sport and other players matter too but even this year if we have CJ Stroud under center instead of Jones even with the injuries I think we are in the playoffs easily. That's how quickly things move when you change one position.

Houston has a much better O line than we do. Stroud is pretty good, but how are the other 3 doing?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 04, 2023, 05:19:35 PMYes Jalen Hurts, and Lamar Jackson were picked later on but besides them every other elite Qb has gone in the top 10. I would much rather the organization be aggressive and get their guy by any means necessary than just waiting around to continue losing.

So if we give up multiple draft picks and hit on a guy it's amazing and even if they don't hit at least they tried. Better that than trotting Jones out for another irrelevant year.

Almost any QB that you can draft, is guaranteed to fail and look like a bust, behind our O line and our Receivers group.

Quote from: GloryDays on December 04, 2023, 06:21:08 PMIT IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT JONES IS A BUST, I personally still believe that if we have a more reliable O line, that can produce some running lanes and 3-4 seconds of time for receivers to get open, DJ will be very effective.

Very few QBs will get 3-4 seconds of protection. The great ones thrive no matter the condition. We don't have that in Jones. His clock is shot. Giving him a more reliable line and 3-4 seconds isn't going to improve his pocket presence, field vision, or fix his broken clock. And now he can't stay healthy.

I also don't agree that he's a bust... but being drafted 6th overall and not living up to the expectations certainly has the needle pointing that way.

I view Jones as a bust myself, but I certainly accept that there is some subjectivity there. What is not up for debate is that Jones has been demonstrable way less durable than what would is acceptable for his position and for the cash outlay involved. If you want to put all of that on the O line, medical staff, or whoever else, and completely absolve him, go ahead, but that doesn't change the reality of it. He is simply not the long term answer. I don't know why so many want to cling to hope with a player who has been so hopeless.

Fyi, 52 guests have voted. They may think differently than the group. A wider scope of perspective.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 05, 2023, 10:11:17 AMFyi, 52 guests have voted. They may think differently than the group. A wider scope of perspective.

Ed,

Is there a way to compare the guests' votes against the membership's votes?

Quote from: T200 on December 05, 2023, 10:49:36 AMEd,

Is there a way to compare the guests' votes against the membership's votes?

Not that I'm aware of.

Quote from: GloryDays on December 04, 2023, 06:21:08 PMIT IS NOT A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT JONES IS A BUST, I personally still believe that if we have a more reliable O line, that can produce some running lanes and 3-4 seconds of time for receivers to get open, DJ will be very effective.

Houston has a much better O line than we do. Stroud is pretty good, but how are the other 3 doing?

Name another Qb that has had 5 years of bad Qb play and then came out and did something different? Zero

Jones has only surpassed 200 yards passing 8 times in the past 2 seasons which is laughable its that bad. Jones has had worse passing numbers than most backups in the league, his passing numbers were on par with Davis Mills last season who they got rid of for stroud, and just this season a journeyman + an undrafted rookie on his own team outplayed him easily.

The 6th overall pick averaging 3,000 yards and like 12 passing tds a season, how is he not a bust?

No Qb gets 3 to 4 seconds ever, the average time to throw is around 2 seconds league wide.

Also Houston has tunsil we have Thomas so that's a scratch and beyond that they've been decimated by injury as well playing people all over the line this season.