Interested in hearing the take from those of you who either played, coached, or are very knowledgeable on offensive line play. I played G in High School. We weren't very good and I wasn't very good either.
But I knew what to do when the defensive line stunted.
What was going on out there? I can't believe that--year after year--the Giants can't handle simple DT-DE twist plays.
Justin Pugh looked completely lost out there. This is incomprehensible for a seasoned vet. Then throw in his 5-yarder for illegal motion. Just unforgivable for a Guard. Was Pugh making the line calls? He was looking back at the QB on almost every play. If so, why isn't the center making these calls this late in the season?
If you're Glowinski...dude you had 1 job. You blew it and got flagged. Go back to the bench.
I find it very hard to watch a game with multi-millionaire professionals making high school errors that our HS football coach would have gone apoplectic over. Tough to watch.
Despite some trumpeting him as some type of savior, Pugh has been awful since he signed.
Thomas is the only above average OL. I have faith in JMS improving, so I think we're set at the 2 most important OL positions. But absolutely everything else should be house cleaned.
Here are the things I think need to happen in order of importance.
1. Fire Johnson and bring in a Callahan-type OL coach.
2. Stop wasting time on Neal at RT. He is not an NFL tackle and doesn't look like he ever will be. His footwork is terribly slow and his awareness is non-existent. I'm fine trying him at OG in camp and during preseason, but frankly I've already moved on from him.
3. Sign a solid vet starter in FA. Ideally a RT, but I know there isn't much to spend in FA, so I'm fine with an OG.
4. Draft a starting-level OL with either of their 2nd round picks.
5. EZ and McKethan can stay due to their youth and hope for improvement under a real coach, but everyone else needs to go and the reserves / depth guys need to be improved.
It's known as a lack of talent in 3 of 5 positions at best- and that is when Thomas is healthy- and by no means is it, nor has it been something new where the Giants are concerned. And yet, only now does it seem that more folks may be ready to join the few of us who have been pressing the issue seemingly in vain. And by all means let's be clear, if they don't add the talent needed to significantly improve the Oline's performance, it won't matter who's calling signals at the team's "most important position".
Cheers!
Quote from: Stringer Bell on December 17, 2023, 08:29:55 PMDespite some trumpeting him as some type of savior, Pugh has been awful since he signed.
Thomas is the only above average OL. I have faith in JMS improving, so I think we're set at the 2 most important OL positions. But absolutely everything else should be house cleaned.
Here are the things I think need to happen in order of importance.
1. Fire Johnson and bring in a Callahan-type OL coach.
2. Stop wasting time on Neal at RT. He is not an NFL tackle and doesn't look like he ever will be. His footwork is terribly slow and his awareness is non-existent. I'm fine trying him at OG in camp and during preseason, but frankly I've already moved on from him.
3. Sign a solid vet starter in FA. Ideally a RT, but I know there isn't much to spend in FA, so I'm fine with an OG.
4. Draft a starting-level OL with either of their 2nd round picks.
5. EZ and McKethan can stay due to their youth and hope for improvement under a real coach, but everyone else needs to go and the reserves / depth guys need to be improved.
Not sure why anyone thought he would be a savior. Guy was not on a team for the same reason I am not on a team. Nobody thought he was good enough (and they were all correct).
The color commentator pointed out that the Giants keep missing the DL stunt and getting beat. That's on the coaching. Who the hell is Bobby "not the guy who Simms threw too" Johnson and why is he still the OL coach? #1 off-season move has to be a new OL coach. That being said Pugh was a must needed sign when everyone was injured but he needs to be replaced by Glow or if he ever gets healthy Neal.
Quote from: coggs on December 17, 2023, 09:04:33 PMNot sure why anyone thought he would be a savior. Guy was not on a team for the same reason I am not on a team. Nobody thought he was good enough (and they were all correct).
LOL. That is exactly what I said at the time of the signing. It was during a time when everyone was talking about how OL play was down across the league and no one had depth. So it was pretty telling that none of the other 31 teams felt he was worth bringing in. Didn't understand the belief in him then and don't understand it now.
Quote from: Painter on December 17, 2023, 08:54:38 PMIt's known as a lack of talent in 3 of 5 positions at best- and that is when Thomas is healthy- and by no means is it, nor has it been something new where the Giants are concerned. And yet, only now does it seem that more folks may be ready to join the few of us who have been pressing the issue seemingly in vain. And by all means let's be clear, if they don't add the talent needed to significantly improve the Oline's performance, it won't matter who's calling signals at the team's "most important position".
Cheers!
By my profile I have made 5065 posts to BBH--Conservatively perhaps 5000 of those have been about our inept OL--I think we are all preaching to the choir
How the hell can so many fans be so wrong about the team that they root for?
I cant go on any more about the state of our OL
The team we played today is NOT a defensive juggernaught--they were NOT the terror of the league in the sack or pressure dept but we made them look like the 85 Bears or like some of the Giants premier Defensive teams
I dont even want to put my name to this post
I'm just half-amazed and half-angry. All of these linemen, even the worse lineman on the worse offensive line in the NFL, succeeded very well in high school. He was taught how to handle defensive line stunts in high school, and he succeeded at high school.
Then he went to college. He handled defensive line stunts in college, just as he was taught in high school, and he succeeded very well in college. Otherwise he wouldn't even be invited to an NFL tryout.
Then he joins the Giants. And now he can't handle simple defensive line stunts.
The Giants OL talent is NOT the worst in the league. The Giants OL is. Any fix has to start with the coaching. Get a Callahan or Munchak as soon as the season ends and let them evaluate the tape and play a big role in final FA and draft evaluations. Even with what we have we should not be giving up an average(!) of more than 5 sacks per game and the most pressures per game to boot.
Quote from: londonblue on December 18, 2023, 04:54:33 AMThe Giants OL talent is NOT the worst in the league. The Giants OL is. Any fix has to start with the coaching. Get a Callahan or Munchak as soon as the season ends and let them evaluate the tape and play a big role in final FA and draft evaluations. Even with what we have we should not be giving up an average(!) of more than 5 sacks per game and the most pressures per game to boot.
Are those guys even available. I see Callahan is the Browns' O line coach. Munchak may have retired - not sure. Agree those are two great names. Scarnacchia (sp?) on the Pats is another highly respected one. Granted, I suspect the play of Brady over the years helped his cause, but no doubt he is respected, and with Belichick likely leaving maybe the new coach brings in others and Scarnacchia becomes available.
Either way the Giants definitely need an upgrade in this role. I am not one of these fans who think coaching changes are the magic cure-all elixir for improved on-field performance, but O line is one area where I do think it makes a definite difference.
I got a sense that the Bobby Johnson hire was one of the few (perhaps the only) "friends" hire by Brian Daboll.
Last season, it didn't hurt the Giants too much because they had an excellent assistant O-line coach in Tony Sparano Jr (who left in the offseason to become the O-line coach of the Colts). The Colts O-line is ranked 7th by PFF, while the Giants' line is ranked 29th (most likely to drop after yesterday's stinker).
I don't care how much money it will take; the Giants need to find a good offensive line coach.
Quote from: bldevil on December 18, 2023, 01:46:35 AMI'm just half-amazed and half-angry. All of these linemen, even the worse lineman on the worse offensive line in the NFL, succeeded very well in high school. He was taught how to handle defensive line stunts in high school, and he succeeded at high school.
Then he went to college. He handled defensive line stunts in college, just as he was taught in high school, and he succeeded very well in college. Otherwise he wouldn't even be invited to an NFL tryout.
Then he joins the Giants. And now he can't handle simple defensive line stunts.
In HS, the stunts are not as sophisticated with the delays. It usually happens immediately before the OL actually engage and most of your opponents are not nearly as talented as these guys were.
As for the OP, from what I remember, it was "feel". Most zone blocking schemes call for 2 OL to be responsible for 2 defensive players. Issue becomes when the G-T are working together, but they run a stunt that has the 5-tech looping in to the A gap where it may be the Center's responsibility and the C just doesnt see it or the G doesn't get a piece of him. But, that is just thinking out loud. I would really need to watch every play to try to figure out how the Giants are running it.
So is there hope that Ezudu or McKethan will ever be decent linemen? Do they have athletic traits that make it possible?
Quote from: squibber on December 18, 2023, 09:39:39 AMSo is there hope that Ezudu or McKethan will ever be decent linemen? Do they have athletic traits that make it possible?
I don't know about McKethan, but Ezeudu does have pretty good physical traits.
76 sacks in 14 games. I don't think you can go back to another season and find as many sacks after 14 games. DeVito and Jones have thrown the same amount of passes (160) with the former getting sacked 30 times and the latter 35 times.
This is not a crack in a dam but a whole dam collapse. Stop with a better QB could succeed amidst that OL ruin. Maybe another QB throws a few more completions or generates another TD or two but you are not getting a top 10 performance.
Fire the OL coach. Bring in a proven OL coach.
Draft/FA more starters
Draft a new QB.
The Eagles picked up Phillips on their practice squad after the Giants released him and although he came back a better player, he is the starting Giants RT after the Eagles didn't think enough of him to keep him.
Just wrap your head around that for a moment.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:31:00 PMThe Eagles picked up Phillips on their practice squad after the Giants released him and although he came back a better player, he is the starting Giants RT after the Eagles didn't think enough of him to keep him.
Just wrap your head around that for a moment.
Yep. Some of our starters are scout players on good teams.
Quote from: Philosophers on December 18, 2023, 11:42:33 AM76 sacks in 14 games. I don't think you can go back to another season and find as many sacks after 14 games. DeVito and Jones have thrown the same amount of passes (160) with the former getting sacked 30 times and the latter 35 times.
Interesting. So much for the (false?) narrative that TD is better than DJ at avoiding sacks.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 18, 2023, 01:44:53 PMInteresting. So much for the (false?) narrative that TD is better than DJ at avoiding sacks.
Yeah exactly. Any QB will be under siege behind that OL. Nobody will be a top 10 QB behind that OL. We have to fix that OL. Drafting a QB will not result in materially better QB play without investing more in our OL.
Every other position group (aside from OL and QB) can survive another year but we have to fix it until it works.
I've been thinking about the following for several weeks. Together with the advent of the Tush Push, there has been a great deal of pushing the pile sometimes for 5-10 yards before the RB is finally stopped both in College and pros. A Center, 4 Sumo wrestlers make up the line, a blocking fullback in the style of Carthon, and a big running back. Just maul, and smash your way down the field. Giant Football is smashmouth. That's the ultimate smashmouth. Parts of American Football seem to be taking on the characteristics of Rugby, and or Australian Rules Football. B/t/w in those two games few seem to get hurt at scrum time. How much fun would we all have watching the Eagles, and Pokes get ground into ground beef. Think how loud our stadium would be.
The Giants fan base seems to be split. Most wanting a new Quarterback, and a lot wanting the Oline fixed.
It's not an either/or proposition, so it's perplexing that the fan base is thinking of it that way.
We can draft a stud Qb and still draft Olinemen or sign Olinemen. Doing 1 doesn't mean we still can't do the other as well.
I think a new Oline Coach, and new Qb do wonders for the team before we even discuss additions which we do need.
I think we also need a new strength and conditioning coach.
You don't need much talent (foot dexterity, hip flexibility, etc.) to convert 3rd-and-1. You just got to push the guy across from you just a little bit.
Our guys get pushed around on the LOS. all the time, especially in short yardage situations. I just don't think they're as physically prepared as other Olines.
Quote from: files58 on December 18, 2023, 02:56:33 PMI've been thinking about the following for several weeks. Together with the advent of the Tush Push, there has been a great deal of pushing the pile sometimes for 5-10 yards before the RB is finally stopped both in College and pros. A Center, 4 Sumo wrestlers make up the line, a blocking fullback in the style of Carthon, and a big running back. Just maul, and smash your way down the field. Giant Football is smashmouth. That's the ultimate smashmouth. Parts of American Football seem to be taking on the characteristics of Rugby, and or Australian Rules Football. B/t/w in those two games few seem to get hurt at scrum time. How much fun would we all have watching the Eagles, and Pokes get ground into ground beef. Think how loud our stadium would be.
Get five Sumo wrestlers.
I think there will be a no rugby rule coming next season.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 18, 2023, 01:44:53 PMInteresting. So much for the (false?) narrative that TD is better than DJ at avoiding sacks.
I don't think it's that TD Tommy is better at avoiding sacks as much as it was that Tommy still looks downfield and makes throws versus Daniel checking down to his closest receiver.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 07:22:28 PMGet five Sumo wrestlers.
I think there will be a no rugby rule coming next season.
You mean outlawing the Tush Push?
Quote from: Philosophers on December 18, 2023, 11:42:33 AM76 sacks in 14 games. I don't think you can go back to another season and find as many sacks after 14 games.
With the GMen you can not.
However, the 1986 Eagles gave up 104 sacks in 16 games with Jaws and Cunningham behind center
96 of those were in the first 14 games.
and that is the list of teams that have given up more sacks in 14 games than the current 2023 Giants
I doubt the Giants will give up 28 sacks in the next 2 games to take the record, or even the next three
So there you have it, the Giants 2023 Oline is the 2nd worst line in the history of the NFL
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 18, 2023, 05:35:32 PMThe Giants fan base seems to be split. Most wanting a new Quarterback, and a lot wanting the Oline fixed.
It's not an either/or proposition, so it's perplexing that the fan base is thinking of it that way.
We can draft a stud Qb and still draft Olinemen or sign Olinemen. Doing 1 doesn't mean we still can't do the other as well.
I think a new Oline Coach, and new Qb do wonders for the team before we even discuss additions which we do need.
Fix one of the worst O-lines in the NFL and get an elite QB all in one offseason, drafting 7th (give or take a couple of slots) with one extra 2nd rounder and minus a 7th rounder for 7 total draft picks. The Giants are higher middle of the pack with $35 million cap space (while having McKinney, Jackson, Barkley, Taylor, Robinson, and Simmons as free agents).
I suspect this task is easier said than done.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 09:44:03 AMFix one of the worst O-lines in the NFL and get an elite QB all in one offseason, drafting 7th (give or take a couple of slots) with one extra 2nd rounder and minus a 7th rounder for 7 total draft picks. The Giants are higher middle of the pack with $35 million cap space (while having McKinney, Jackson, Barkley, Taylor, Robinson, and Simmons as free agents).
I suspect this task is easier said than done.
Many of us suspect that the biggest issue with the offensive line, outside of health, is the line coach. But Johnson and Kafka need to be replaced, at a minimum.
Upgrading the QB position is a must. Ideally you'd be in a position to draft an elite QB prospect. We'll see if that's an option.
The year they drafted Eli, they also drafted Chris Snee. This OL is in need of an elite mauler like Snee at the IOL. Having a guy like that opens up the run game and helps make the line look better. That was supposed to be Will Hernandez but he was a miss. They need to go back to the well and find that Chris Snee type. They may have a shot to get their Eli/Snee this year. Time will tell.
One more thing I'll add, Will Hernandez is playing better in Arizona than he did here. Jon Feliciano is playing better in San Francisco than he did here. The Giants need to study this issue and understand why OL players go elsewhere and play better. The easy answer is the OL coach. That may be part of the answer but I suspect there's more to it than that.
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 19, 2023, 10:29:14 AMUpgrading the QB position is a must. Ideally you'd be in a position to draft an elite QB prospect. We'll see if that's an option.
The year they drafted Eli, they also drafted Chris Snee. This OL is in need of an elite mauler like Snee at the IOL. Having a guy like that opens up the run game and helps make the line look better. That was supposed to be Will Hernandez but he was a miss. They need to go back to the well and find that Chris Snee type. They may have a shot to get their Eli/Snee this year. Time will tell.
One more thing I'll add, Will Hernandez is playing better in Arizona than he did here. Jon Feliciano is playing better in San Francisco than he did here. The Giants need to study this issue and understand why OL players go elsewhere and play better. The easy answer is the OL coach. That may be part of the answer but I suspect there's more to it than that.
And Kevin Zeitler is a top 3 pro bowl voting guard by the fans.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 09:44:03 AMFix one of the worst O-lines in the NFL and get an elite QB all in one offseason, drafting 7th (give or take a couple of slots) with one extra 2nd rounder and minus a 7th rounder for 7 total draft picks. The Giants are higher middle of the pack with $35 million cap space (while having McKinney, Jackson, Barkley, Taylor, Robinson, and Simmons as free agents).
I suspect this task is easier said than done.
Your not going to get everything you want in one offseason but a New Oline Coach, then Jayden Daniels with our 1st, and a couple Oline FA, to go with the rest of our draft and FA is a great start.
Quote from: T200 on December 19, 2023, 09:53:26 AMMany of us suspect that the biggest issue with the offensive line, outside of health, is the line coach. But Johnson and Kafka need to be replaced, at a minimum.
I think it's a given that Bobby Johnson needs to leave at the end of the year. I guess I am less certain how much of a turnaround the guys the Giants acquired under BJ (Evan Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan, JMS) will thrive with a new coach.
Right now (and appreciating that it's possible a new coach may turn around one or more of the young guys currently on the roster) the team O-line stands at:
LT- Andrew Thomas- elite but injury prone
LG- Likely vacant after the season
C- JMS who is still a work in progress with hopeful upside
RG- Likely vacant after the season
RT- Can't count on Evan Neal to start and play well, will need a plan B (might fill in at one of the guard spots)
That is a lot of resources (draft and cap) that will be needed just to fix that mess (I can't believe it's still a mess after a decade especially with all the draft capital spent).
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 19, 2023, 11:02:10 AMYour not going to get everything you want in one offseason but a New Oline Coach, then Jayden Daniels with our 1st, and a couple Oline FA, to go with the rest of our draft and FA is a great start.
I think Jayden Daniels (likely top 5) is a long shot, thanks to 5 wins. It's not like there are teams at the top of this draft that don't need QBs, so you are not going to see much in the way of trade partners.
The teams currently ahead of the Giants (currently sitting at 6th pick) all need QBs. Obviously, the Bears have 2 of those picks and will only draft one QB, but you have 3 QB needy teams in the Pats, Cards, and Commanders, all picking prior to the Giants, and they need a QB more than they need draft picks.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 11:02:45 AMI think it's a given that Bobby Johnson needs to leave at the end of the year. I guess I am less certain how much of a turnaround the guys the Giants acquired under BJ (Evan Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan, JMS) will thrive with a new coach.
Right now (and appreciating that it's possible a new coach may turn around one or more of the young guys currently on the roster) the team O-line stands at:
LT- Andrew Thomas- elite but injury prone
LG- Likely vacant after the season
C- JMS who is still a work in progress with hopeful upside
RG- Likely vacant after the season
RT- Can't count on Evan Neal to start and play well, will need a plan B (might fill in at one of the guard spots)
That is a lot of resources (draft and cap) that will be needed just to fix that mess (I can't believe it's still a mess after a decade especially with all the draft capital spent).
I'm with you there, Rich. But... no way to know unless they change. I mean, we already know what to expect with him.
There is an old saying that the best teacher, best communicator on an NFL coaching staff should be/is the Oline coach.
A well coached Olline will not only know what to immediately expect before them but what to expect as the alternatives that may be coming as well. Any hesitation in responsibilities will lead to doom.
The Giants Oline on a good day doesn't know what is coming at them as they simply not cover straight up rushes yet alone stunts, dogs, or any real blitz.
Johnson has not properly prepared the Giants Oline 99% of the time.
Lets be honest his units were not good in Buffalo either.
2023 - will be in bottom of league if not worst
2022 -18th Giants O line coach
2021 - 17th Bills o line coach
2020- 10th Bills o line coach
2019 - 21st Bills o line coach
2018 - 3rd (expected to middle of the pack) Colts Ass. Oline Coach to Dave DeGuglielmo
Johnson as a 5 year Oline Coach will average a final season rank of 19th for his unit. When he was hired he averaged 16th. So the unit that sunk the end of Eli's career, TC's career and the better portion of a decade; Daboll decided to bring in a mediocre at best coach to rejuvenate the Giants O line.
That is a huge mistake to start his HC career.
Looks like Daboll brought the offensive line problem from Buffalo to fix the offensive line problem in NY. Bad move. I hope he has the balls to fix it.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 11:06:28 AMI think Jayden Daniels (likely top 5) is a long shot, thanks to 5 wins. It's not like there are teams at the top of this draft that don't need QBs, so you are not going to see much in the way of trade partners.
The teams currently ahead of the Giants (currently sitting at 6th pick) all need QBs. Obviously, the Bears have 2 of those picks and will only draft one QB, but you have 3 QB needy teams in the Pats, Cards, and Commanders, all picking prior to the Giants, and they need a QB more than they need draft picks.
I only see 1 Qb needy team out of those 3.
1st Arizona is not getting rid of Kylar for several seasons, I mean if they cut him this offseason they'd have almost 90 million in dead cap. So they don't need a Qb at least for 2 years.
2nd Sam Howell is going to finish with 4,000 + yards and 20+ Tds, he isn't their problem. They need a LT, TE, and Edge badly and would have their pick of the #1 prospect at each of those positions.
3rd the bears likely take Caleb Williams who is basically Justin Fields 2.0 but their 2nd pick right before us is likely open for business and wouldn't take much to move up 1. They still however could skip QB with both picks and take WR, Corner, OLine, or Edge which they need badly.
So really we are only talking the bears and patriots before us taking Qbs which would have #3 of Maye, Williams, Daniels to fall into our laps.
Last point is if you look at most mock drafts they still don't grade daniels as a high prospect. The highest you really see him going is when we pick but beyond that he's fringe top 10.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 19, 2023, 02:31:44 PMI only see 1 Qb needy team out of those 3.
1st Arizona is not getting rid of Kylar for several seasons, I mean if they cut him this offseason they'd have almost 90 million in dead cap. So they don't need a Qb at least for 2 years.
2nd Sam Howell is going to finish with 4,000 + yards and 20+ Tds, he isn't their problem. They need a LT, TE, and Edge badly and would have their pick of the #1 prospect at each of those positions.
3rd the bears likely take Caleb Williams who is basically Justin Fields 2.0 but their 2nd pick right before us is likely open for business and wouldn't take much to move up 1. They still however could skip QB with both picks and take WR, Corner, OLine, or Edge which they need badly.
So really we are only talking the bears and patriots before us taking Qbs which would have #3 of Maye, Williams, Daniels to fall into our laps.
Last point is if you look at most mock drafts they still don't grade daniels as a high prospect. The highest you really see him going is when we pick but beyond that he's fringe top 10.
Sam Howell
24th in QB rating
22nd in QBR
14th in EPA
27th ranked (20% passes) PFF
I don't see the Commanders passing an elite QB prospect.
Kyler Murray is in the same situation as Daniel Jones. The Cards can't get rid of him in 2024 but they can part ways with him (for a cap savings) in 2025
Maybe there were not many good OL coaches available when Daboll was hired.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 02:38:23 PMSam Howell
24th in QB rating
22nd in QBR
14th in EPA
27th ranked (20% passes) PFF
I don't see the Commanders passing an elite QB prospect.
Kyler Murray is in the same situation as Daniel Jones. The Cards can't get rid of him in 2024 but they can part ways with him (for a cap savings) in 2025
Sam Howell has more production Than Jones ever had in his 1st season starting so there is still a chance they go a different route.
The cards are winning games or at least competitive with kylar despite the lack of talent around him along with his contract which is 80 million more than Jones, they likely try to build around him before blowing it up.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 19, 2023, 02:55:16 PMSam Howell has more production Than Jones ever had in his 1st season starting so there is still a chance they go a different route.
The cards are winning games or at least competitive with kylar despite the lack of talent around him along with his contract which is 80 million more than Jones, they likely try to build around him before blowing it up.
Jess,
Maybe you're right, and the Cards and Commanders pass on a potential elite QB prospect, but it seems unlikely. Neither team has ties with their current QBs, and I don't know many football people who wouldn't advocate grabbing a good QB (with elite potential) when their current QB is middle of the pack (and, in the case of the Cards, quite expensive).
Hell, based on your posts after the past few years, if you were GM of either team, you would draft any of the top 3 QBs if they fell to you. Still, this is all just speculation, there are still 3 games to be played so we don't know how everything will fully shake out.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 03:27:52 PMJess,
Maybe you're right, and the Cards and Commanders pass on a potential elite QB prospect, but it seems unlikely. Neither team has ties with their current QBs, and I don't know many football people who wouldn't advocate grabbing a good QB (with elite potential) when their current QB is middle of the pack (and, in the case of the Cards, quite expensive).
Hell, based on your posts after the past few years, if you were GM of either team, you would draft any of the top 3 QBs if they fell to you. Still, this is all just speculation, there are still 3 games to be played so we don't know how everything will fully shake out.
Qb is the most important position in football, you either have one or you don't, and currently the Cardinals, Patriots, and Commanders have Qbs on their roster that have more passing production in a season than any of our Qbs have had in a season.
So we can only hope they go in a different direction so that our fortunes change.
Quote from: MightyGiants on December 19, 2023, 03:27:52 PMJess,
Maybe you're right, and the Cards and Commanders pass on a potential elite QB prospect, but it seems unlikely. Neither team has ties with their current QBs, and I don't know many football people who wouldn't advocate grabbing a good QB (with elite potential) when their current QB is middle of the pack (and, in the case of the Cards, quite expensive).
Hell, based on your posts after the past few years, if you were GM of either team, you would draft any of the top 3 QBs if they fell to you. Still, this is all just speculation, there are still 3 games to be played so we don't know how everything will fully shake out.
New owner of Redskins knows he will sell tix with a new QB. He has no ties to Howell plus Rivera likely gets fores so HC will probably want a new QB.
Quote from: Philosophers on December 19, 2023, 07:06:41 PMNew owner of Redskins knows he will sell tix with a new QB. He has no ties to Howell plus Rivera likely gets fores so HC will probably want a new QB.
Agreed. I would think if Washington likes one of these top QB's, they take him if he is on the board. Even if it means having the rookie and Howell compete for the job in camp. I see Howell as one of those guys that can get you through a season, and be somewhat competitive (hovering around .500). Not going to drag a team to the play-offs every year or be a serious contender unless they have a ridiculously stacked defense and VERY strong running game.