Looks like he's being groomed to be the backup next season under Daniel Jones and Daboll wants him prepared in case he has to start the season.
If he was garbage like some of the itoldyouso QB Gurus we have here, they would be starting Tyrod and discussing a contract extension.
Of course what does Daboll know. He hasn't been posting on a Football Forum for the past 20 years.
1) they are not playing at home.
2) they are not grooming for anything. Daboll knows they have no chance of winning this game, so play the kid.
3) Daboll knows he sucks, but he is playing the hand he is dealt.
4) They can find someone cheaper and better than Taylor as a back-up, so need to extend him.
It's the right move, IMHO. I firmly believe that Jones won't be ready to start the season. The game 1 starter will either be TD Tommy or the rookie they draft.
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 10:30:48 AMIt's the right move, IMHO. I firmly believe that Jones won't be ready to start the season. The game 1 starter will either be TD Tommy or the rookie they draft.
So, you are accepting a loss on opening day next year?
It's a no brainer for him to start
They need to see much more from him. Whether he survives the game is another issue.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 10:31:53 AMSo, you are accepting a loss on opening day next year?
Accepting or expecting? If they lose, I have no choice but to accept it. I have no challenge flags =))
I don't even know the schedule, who's going to be on the roster, how they will look in camp and pre-season, or what state the opposition will be in.
I personally think Taylor is not coming back. Given that, and given the season is now 100% over, there really is no point in starting him over DeVito. DeVito has a not unrealistic chance of having some sort of career as an NFL backup, possibly for the Giants. It makes sense to continue to gather data on him.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 10:30:42 AM1) they are not playing at home.
2) they are not grooming for anything. Daboll knows they have no chance of winning this game, so play the kid.
3) Daboll knows he sucks, but he is playing the hand he is dealt.
4) They can find someone cheaper and better than Taylor as a back-up, so need to extend him.
Yes, it's not a home game. Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 10:31:53 AMSo, you are accepting a loss on opening day next year?
Not if Daniels is starting!
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 10:34:03 AMAccepting or expecting? If they lose, I have no choice but to accept it. I have no challenge flags =))
I don't even know the schedule, who's going to be on the roster, how they will look in camp and pre-season, or what state the opposition will be in.
The interesting thing will be after the Eagles kick the xxxx out of the Giants, will Daboll start Tyrod the remaining two games? I don't know why they didn't have a plan for DeVito to have a short game. It's clear now that opposing Defenses will blitz and contain Tommy while isolating the coverage on Man. I know they want him to read through his progressions but they're killing themselves because they can't run the ball and he's looking down field on everything and not hitting his checkdowns. He's been waiting for his men to get open and it wasn't there yesterday. His protection was pure crap yesterday too!
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 10:59:46 AMThe interesting thing will be after the Eagles kick the xxxx out of the Giants, will Daboll start Tyrod the remaining two games? I don't know why they didn't have a plan for DeVito to have a short game. It's clear now that opposing Defenses will blitz and contain Tommy while isolating the coverage on Man. I know they want him to read through his progressions but they're killing themselves because they can't run the ball and he's looking down field on everything and not hitting his checkdowns. He's been waiting for his men to get open and it wasn't there yesterday. His protection was pure crap yesterday too!
Maybe this is the plan. Put him in a ridiculously hard situation and see how he handles it? However, with some of his misses on short throws, not sure he can execute any plan.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 11:07:17 AMMaybe this is the plan. Put him in a ridiculously hard situation and see how he handles it? However, with some of his misses on short throws, not sure he can execute any plan.
If he can't execute a short game and get the ball out in less than 2 seconds, he can't be the backup on this team. Not with that Offensive Line and given the history, I have no confidence that it's going to be better than it has the last ten years. Priority one is to find and retain an excellent Oline Coach.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 10:59:46 AMThe interesting thing will be after the Eagles kick the xxxx out of the Giants, will Daboll start Tyrod the remaining two games? I don't know why they didn't have a plan for DeVito to have a short game. It's clear now that opposing Defenses will blitz and contain Tommy while isolating the coverage on Man. I know they want him to read through his progressions but they're killing themselves because they can't run the ball and he's looking down field on everything and not hitting his checkdowns. He's been waiting for his men to get open and it wasn't there yesterday. His protection was pure crap yesterday too!
I look at it differently. I think Tommy's a tough kid. He knows he's up against it. Daboll knows he's up against it. I think Daboll wants to see how Tommy functions in harsh conditions.
I don't see any point in starting Tyrod. He has nothing to offer the team outside of an injury to Tommy the remainder of the season.
Tommy's mindset seems to be the opposite of Danny's. One looks to push the ball downfield, the other looks to get rid of it quickly to his closest outlet. Neither have very good pocket awareness and clocks.
I kinda wonder if Tommy heard the fans' gripes about Danny not throwing the ball deep and decided he would make sure to look downfield for long passes.
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 10:34:03 AMAccepting or expecting? If they lose, I have no choice but to accept it. I have no challenge flags =))
I don't even know the schedule, who's going to be on the roster, how they will look in camp and pre-season, or what state the opposition will be in.
yes, "accepting". As in, you have resigned yourself to an 0-1 or 0-whatever start?
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 11:10:53 AMIf he can't execute a short game and get the ball out in less than 2 seconds, he can't be the backup on this team. Not with that Offensive Line and given the history, I have no confidence that it's going to be better than it has the last ten years. Priority one is to find and retain an excellent Oline Coach.
Based on some of his terrible misses the past few games. I do not think he can execute a consistent short game.
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 11:12:45 AMI look at it differently. I think Tommy's a tough kid. He knows he's up against it. Daboll knows he's up against it. I think Daboll wants to see how Tommy functions in harsh conditions.
I don't see any point in starting Tyrod. He has nothing to offer the team outside of an injury to Tommy the remainder of the season.
Tommy's mindset seems to be the opposite of Danny's. One looks to push the ball downfield, the other looks to get rid of it quickly to his closest outlet. Neither have very good pocket awareness and clocks.
I kinda wonder if Tommy heard the fans' gripes about Danny not throwing the ball deep and decided he would make sure to look downfield for long passes.
Tim, it's in their game plan. It's in the game calls too.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 11:15:57 AMBased on some of his terrible misses the past few games. I do not think he can execute a consistent short game.
Until yesterday he had a good completion percentage and I don't recall many swing passes and flats but I do see some poor execution by the receivers and in blocking those swings and screens.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 11:20:18 AMUntil yesterday he had a good completion percentage and I don't recall many swing passes and flats but I do see some poor execution by the receivers and in blocking those swings and screens.
He had some bad easy misses on Monday against the Packers. Had some yesterday, as well. Yes, receivers dropped a few too. Hyatt has at least 3 the last 2 weeks.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 11:13:37 AMyes, "accepting". As in, you have resigned yourself to an 0-1 or 0-whatever start?
No, I don't. I don't see how that can be reasonably determined one way or another... way too many variables to hazard a guess.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 11:26:21 AMHe had some bad easy misses on Monday against the Packers. Had some yesterday, as well. Yes, receivers dropped a few too. Hyatt has at least 3 the last 2 weeks.
He's had several drops this season. I'm surprised. Hopefully over the shoulder isn't his only forte.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 11:18:23 AMTim, it's in their game plan. It's in the game calls too.
I agree. Throwing short pass after short pass doesn't allow the coaches and team to see what they have in their deep threats. I think the coaching staff's priority is for him to look deep first. To your point, he has to learn to get through his progressions and take the underneath stuff when his primary read is not available. He's still learning... and I'm OK with letting him get live experience. What I would have a problem with is someone else, like Taylor, taking live snaps from him. It helps no one.
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 11:32:47 AMI agree. Throwing short pass after short pass doesn't allow the coaches and team to see what they have in their deep threats. I think the coaching staff's priority is for him to look deep first. To your point, he has to learn to get through his progressions and take the underneath stuff when his primary read is not available. He's still learning... and I'm OK with letting him get live experience. What I would have a problem with is someone else, like Taylor, taking live snaps from him. It helps no one.
They have to call some of them. Call some crossing routes and slants first read too then a one read checkdown. Not all game but to set up other plays. The problem has been no run game and the poor pass protection. Sure anyone can cherry pick the DeVito bad plays but give the guy a break.
Something stuck with me that Daboll said at least twice. "Let's see how he handles adversity". To paraphrase
I wonder if they set him up?
Tyrod is out after this year, regardless. The next three games are DeVito's tryout for whether he is the main backup or back to the practice squad.
The Giants sign a vet to compete in camp and either him or DeVito start the first four games, since DJ starts on PUP. The drafted rookie plays the last three games.
Laying this out, what's depressing of course is that next year will be another wasted season unless we catch lightning in a bottle, like Stroud.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 11:38:09 AMThey have to call some of them. Call some crossing routes and slants first read too then a one read checkdown. Not all game but to set up other plays. The problem has been no run game and the poor pass protection. Sure anyone can cherry pick the DeVito bad plays but give the guy a break.
Something stuck with me that Daboll said at least twice. "Let's see how he handles adversity". To paraphrase
I wonder if they set him up?
Of course they have to call them. You know I have been calling out the play calling pretty much all season. Who knows WTF they think when they come up with their game plans.
As far as setting him up for failure, I don't think they deliberately created a game plan to make it more difficult for him. I mean, it's the Giants after all. Just snap the damn ball and he's running for his life, regardless of the play.
I believe it was more of the coach knowing his team, specifically the inability to provide any of his QBs time in the pocket. Tommy had some close calls against Green Bay. He wasn't as lucky against the Saints. Daboll knew it was only a matter of time for the line to fold.
Ed. I kinda predicted that Arse Kicking and you thought I was covering and giving myself an out
Not really true. I had a bad "heebbie jieebie" about that game and saw no one was paying attention
Tommy got hit helmet to helmet PLUS tackling a QB who is in the proccess of giving himself up. The Saints came out like thugs and we didnt lay a finger on their QB. Shameful....and no call WHAT?
Refs should be fired and league inquiry and big fines. This is the same team that paid bounties. Looks like they still are
I thought Daboll made a big mistake putting Tommy back in after the helmet blow and also his head was whipped into the turf
Tyrod Taylor should have been left in to finish the game. I thought that at the time and feel that way still. Who knows he might have had a better outcome, maybe maybe not
The Saints were gunning for DeVito
Why not? They won't be tied to Tyrod after the next and final 3 games. They might just as well find out what DeVito may be worth next year as either a 2 or 3 if they even decide to keep 3.
The only certainty is that DJ's cap costs (live or dead) will make him the nominal Num Uno assuming he's ready to go next Spring. And if not, there is no point or basis for us to now start WAGing about whom otherwise that may be. Right! Huh?
Cheers!
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 18, 2023, 11:48:27 AMEd. I kinda predicted that Arse Kicking and you thought I was covering and giving myself an out
Not really true. I had a bad "heebbie jieebie" about that game and saw no one was paying attention
Tommy got hit helmet to helmet PLUS tackling a QB who is in the proccess of giving himself up. The Saints came out like thugs and we didnt lay a finger on their QB. Shameful....and no call WHAT?
Refs should be fired and league inquiry and big fines. This is the same team that paid bounties. Looks like they still are
I thought Daboll made a big mistake putting Tommy back in after the helmet blow and also his head was whipped into the turf
Tyrod Taylor should have been left in to finish the game. I thought that at the time and feel that way still. Who knows he might have had a better outcome, maybe maybe not
The Saints were gunning for DeVito
How dare you show your face around here after the way you have relentlessly hyped Tommy DeVito. You got everyone's hopes up only to have a huge letdown.
Just teasing ya. :)
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:00:12 PMHow dare you show your face around here after the way you have relentlessly hyped Tommy DeVito. You got everyone's hopes up only to have a huge letdown.
Just teasing ya. :)
Disgrazia!
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 11:45:38 AMOf course they have to call them. You know I have been calling out the play calling pretty much all season. Who knows WTF they think when they come up with their game plans.
As far as setting him up for failure, I don't think they deliberately created a game plan to make it more difficult for him. I mean, it's the Giants after all. Just snap the damn ball and he's running for his life, regardless of the play.
I believe it was more of the coach knowing his team, specifically the inability to provide any of his QBs time in the pocket. Tommy had some close calls against Green Bay. He wasn't as lucky against the Saints. Daboll knew it was only a matter of time for the line to fold.
I think Kafka takes a college HC job.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:04:22 PMI think Kafka takes a college HC job.
I'd be the first to congratulate him.
On the one hand, I kinda wish that Daboll would have taken over play calling. But, I prefer my HCs to focus on the team and not be distracted by one side of the ball or the other.
When you mentioned setting up a player for failure, I still believe that either consciously or subconsciously, that's exactly what they did with Jones.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:04:22 PMI think Kafka takes a college HC job.
That would surprise me if his goal is to be an NFL head coach. I realize he is not going to get head coaching offers this year, but unless the Giants fire him and he fails to get another OC gig, I struggle to see the point of becoming a college head coach if he has long term NFL aspirations. The only point of doing that would be if he wants to have a long term career as a college coach, which is possible I guess.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:00:37 PMDisgrazia!
It was a predictable loss and ass kicking. I did call it in a way
I dont understand why the Oline played that bad. The delayed stunts were killing us
Also where was the RB to pickup that late looper. The whole deal was a Shxx Show
The whole team lost...it was a team "lack of effort". I give the the coaching staff an F
We were not prepared for that game
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 18, 2023, 12:11:12 PMThat would surprise me if his goal is to be an NFL head coach. I realize he is not going to get head coaching offers this year, but unless the Giants fire him and he fails to get another OC gig, I struggle to see the point of becoming a college head coach if he has long term NFL aspirations. The only point of doing that would be if he wants to have a long term career as a college coach, which is possible I guess.
If he does not start calling long downfield passes he should resign
Roll the pocket last night and let TD Tommy fire downfield
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 18, 2023, 12:11:12 PMThat would surprise me if his goal is to be an NFL head coach. I realize he is not going to get head coaching offers this year, but unless the Giants fire him and he fails to get another OC gig, I struggle to see the point of becoming a college head coach if he has long term NFL aspirations. The only point of doing that would be if he wants to have a long term career as a college coach, which is possible I guess.
How do you know what his short and long term goals are and how does taking a College gig, keep him from ever returning to the NFL?
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 18, 2023, 12:21:05 PMIf he does not start calling long downfield passes he should resign
Roll the pocket last night and let TD Tommy fire downfield
Ed, he had no time to do that and the receivers were all covered.
Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2023, 11:26:21 AMHe had some bad easy misses on Monday against the Packers. Had some yesterday, as well. Yes, receivers dropped a few too. Hyatt has at least 3 the last 2 weeks.
When you say misses, are you talking about balls he didn't throw? Or ones that were not well placed?
He was 17-21 against the Packers, there weren't many incompletions.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:23:43 PMHow do you know what his short and long term goals are and how does taking a College gig, keep him from ever returning to the NFL?
I don't know what his precise goals are and didn't say that I did. I said "that would surprise me
IF his goal is to be an NFL head coach."
I would return the question to you by saying how do you feel you know his next job is going to be a college coach? Has he said or done anything to indicate that?
Being a college head coach would by no means make it impossible to return to the NFL, but it is becoming harder and harder for college head coaches to get hired to the NFL as head coaches. Owners and GMs increasingly understand that the hit ratio of this transition is very low. As a result, we are seeing it happen less and less, and for good reason. Ruhle and Urban Meyer are two very recent examples of coaches who failed spectacularly making this transition, but there are tons of others. The number of ones that actually worked out is tiny in comparison to the number of failures.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 12:24:57 PMEd, he had no time to do that and the receivers were all covered.
It does not matter
If you roll the pocket you buy time
where was the RPO to Robinson?
If you throw to a covered Robinson or Hyatt they will fight for the ball
at worst you get a PI. Kafka and Jones never factored in the PI probability
Giants are just too conservative and for heavens sakes stop handing it off to Barkley off tackle....he just cannot do it
There were answers to the Saints pass rush, but Kafka never adjusts his play calling to the situation. Frustrating
It was mostly the Oline last night but I can think of many ways we could have stopped that
How about 2 Tight Ends a 7 man protection or 2 RBs to pick up the Saints looping pass rush
I was optomistic about the Eagles game now I'm in dread mode
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 18, 2023, 12:57:51 PMI don't know what his precise goals are and didn't say that I did. I said "that would surprise me IF his goal is to be an NFL head coach."
I would return the question to you by saying how do you feel you know his next job is going to be a college coach? Has he said or done anything to indicate that?
Being a college head coach would by no means make it impossible to return to the NFL, but it is becoming harder and harder for college head coaches to get hired to the NFL as head coaches. Owners and GMs increasingly understand that the hit ratio of this transition is very low. As a result, we are seeing it happen less and less, and for good reason. Ruhle and Urban Meyer are two very recent examples of coaches who failed spectacularly making this transition, but there are tons of others. The number of ones that actually worked out is tiny in comparison to the number of failures.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mike-kafka-focused-on-giants-not-other-job-opportunities/ar-AA1leSom
Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 18, 2023, 12:57:26 PMWhen you say misses, are you talking about balls he didn't throw? Or ones that were not well placed?
He was 17-21 against the Packers, there weren't many incompletions.
Balls that were not well thrown.
Quote from: T200 on December 18, 2023, 10:34:03 AMAccepting or expecting? If they lose, I have no choice but to accept it. I have no challenge flags =))
I don't even know the schedule, who's going to be on the roster, how they will look in camp and pre-season, or what state the opposition will be in.
Tim
We all know we will be starting the season against Dallas.
Who else?
Quote from: LennG on December 18, 2023, 07:15:08 PMTim
We all know we will be starting the season against Dallas.
Who else?
Len, you're right... but I hope you're wrong! :boooo:
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 01:23:39 PMhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mike-kafka-focused-on-giants-not-other-job-opportunities/ar-AA1leSom
Oh I have no doubt he could be a college coach if he wants to. I just personally don't see him quitting the Giants to do that. If they fire him and he can't get another OC job then that would be the logical move.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 18, 2023, 01:23:39 PMhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/mike-kafka-focused-on-giants-not-other-job-opportunities/ar-AA1leSom
If it is a college gig he would have to wait until next year because everyone has already done their hiring for the 2024 season, at least in college anyways.
Now, I'm probably the first to admit that the Mr. Thomas DeVito near-mania among New Jersey Giant fans and the sports commentators on ESPN and other outlets was just plain unrealistic. Mr. DeVito, like us, is fully capable of having a bad day. Even a really bad day. Like, er, well, you know, Sunday against the Saints.
It happens, right?
That doesn't mean that Mr. DeVito isn't still improving as a QB. It doesn't mean that the ability he apparently has to inspire a down-in-the-dumps team is all used up. Remember what Pandora found at the bottom of the box.
We've a few games more to go this season. There's also next season.
Go flag-free, Big Blue!
Quote from: Torus34 on December 19, 2023, 06:22:50 AMNow, I'm probably the first to admit that the Mr. Thomas DeVito near-mania among New Jersey Giant fans and the sports commentators on ESPN and other outlets was just plain unrealistic. Mr. DeVito, like us, is fully capable of having a bad day. Even a really bad day. Like, er, well, you know, Sunday against the Saints.
It happens, right?
That doesn't mean that Mr. DeVito isn't still improving as a QB. It doesn't mean that the ability he apparently has to inspire a down-in-the-dumps team is all used up. Remember what Pandora found at the bottom of the box.
We've a few games more to go this season. There's also next season.
Go flag-free, Big Blue!
He's turning himself into a solid backup. That can be a very lucrative career in the NFL. Kudos to him.