https://x.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1737880681265459720?s=20
He has certainly provided a good return on investment. Overall I think it may say more about what has been an anemic passing attack over that last 5 years than anything else. And I don't mean to take anything away from Slayton. He has more than delivered on a 5th round selection.
I like Slayton, but after so much was made out of him fighting his way back into a starting role last year I guess I expected a bit more from him this season.
Slayton is a respectable player but he's no star, and he never will be. He is more than worthy of an NFL roster spot and a reasonable amount of targets, but I don't regard him as much more than a WR3 on any sort of serious passing offense.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 01:16:05 PMSlayton is a respectable player but he's no star, and he never will be. He is more than worthy of an NFL roster spot and a reasonable amount of targets, but I don't regard him as much more than a WR3 on any sort of serious passing offense.
He is avg 14 yds per reception. No Homer Jones but very very good. He is a pro's pro. We dont have a lot of those. Hes also excellent at getting yardage and out of bounds in the 2 minute drill
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 21, 2023, 02:18:48 PMHe is avg 14 yds per reception. No Homer Jones but very very good. He is a pro's pro. We dont have a lot of those. Hes also excellent at getting yardage and out of bounds in the 2 minute drill
This is the NFL. He is a nice player but not a standout at this level. As I said in my post he would be on any team's roster and would get targets in any offense. He's solid. But he is not a star, nor is he close. He's not even the most talented receiver on our team, and we have one of the worst passing offenses in the league (regardless of which QB we have out there).
I think you run into trouble when you pay guys like Slayton what they're paying him. He would be a nice player to have on the roster if he was earning close to minimum salary.
It reminds me of when they paid all that money to the inconsistent and often injured Sterling Shepard and the nearly washed up Golden Tate. You can't fall into the trap of overpaying skill position players who aren't difference makers.
You guys are nuts. If he had a top ten QB with a competent Offensive Line, Slayton would have 1500 yards a season the past few years. Old memories of his earlier dropsies. He's fast, runs clean routes and has hauled in some challenging passes.
This just shows how pathetic our receiving "talent" has been around Slayton. He's Chris Calloway. The best receiver among the leagues worst WR corp year after year.
Didn't Jimmy Robinson lead the Giants in receiving for a couple of years in a row also? OK, that was 1977-78 and there was no salary cap back then; however, Johnny Perkins and Dwight Scales weren't getting it done and were being paid the big bucks back then.
So, what did the Giants do? They drafted a QB in the first round and gave him a real WR the following year. The QB was Simms and the WR was Gray. Perkins took a back seat and Robinson did as well. Oh yeah, I forgot there was a house cleaning as a result of a certain "Fumble" which needs no recollection. With one of those, you can clean house and start fresh.
Slayton should be able to stick around if the price is right (NOTE: not meaning to quote the late Johnny Olson on the game show with the host, the late Bob Barker and, for some of us old enough to remember, Tom Kennedy and Dennis James).
Peace!
Quote from: TDToomer on December 21, 2023, 04:56:12 PMThis just shows how pathetic our receiving "talent" has been around Slayton. He's Chris Calloway. The best receiver among the leagues worst WR corp year after year.
I think Calloway is closer to Sterling Shepard without the injuries. Slayton isn't close to either of them. Those guys are legitimate starters on a bad offense. Slayton is just a role player on a bad offense.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 21, 2023, 04:42:25 PMYou guys are nuts. If he had a top ten QB with a competent Offensive Line, Slayton would have 1500 yards a season the past few years. Old memories of his earlier dropsies. He's fast, runs clean routes and has hauled in some challenging passes.
Tyreek Hill is in his 8th year in the league and has only had 1500 receiving yards twice. He never once did it with Mahomes (the best QB in the league) and Andy Reid (the best playcaller in the league). You're saying Slayton would have done it the last three years with any top 10 QB and good O line.
If you consistently get 1500 receiving yards a year in this league year after year you are an elite superstar who is going to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, period, no questions asked. Hell, Megatron only did it twice. Randy Moss only did it once. You're saying Slayton, who is in his fifth year, would have done it "a few times" already on a better team when Tyreek Hill couldn't do it once with Mahomes, Reid, and a top O line.
Really? And you're calling us "nuts" for saying he's a solid player?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 05:39:49 PMTyreek Hill is in his 8th year in the league and has only had 1500 receiving yards twice. He never once did it with Mahomes (the best QB in the league) and Andy Reid (the best playcaller in the league). You're saying Slayton would have done it the last three year with any top 10 QB and good O line.
If you consistently get 1500 receiving yards a year in this league year after year you are an elite superstar who is going to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, period, no questions asked. Hell, Megatron only did it twice. Randy Moss only did it once. You're saying Slayton, who is in his fifth year, would have done it "a few times" already on a better team when Tyreek Hill couldn't do it once with Mahomes, Reid, and a top O line.
Really? And you're calling us "nuts" for saying he's a solid player?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 05:39:49 PMTyreek Hill is in his 8th year in the league and has only had 1500 receiving yards twice. He never once did it with Mahomes (the best QB in the league) and Andy Reid (the best playcaller in the league). You're saying Slayton would have done it the last three year with any top 10 QB and good O line.
If you consistently get 1500 receiving yards a year in this league year after year you are an elite superstar who is going to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, period, no questions asked. Hell, Megatron only did it twice. Randy Moss only did it once. You're saying Slayton, who is in his fifth year, would have done it "a few times" already on a better team when Tyreek Hill couldn't do it once with Mahomes, Reid, and a top O line.
Really? And you're calling us "nuts" for saying he's a solid player?
As the only receiving threat among a group of injured and a bunch of average receivers? 2022, Golladay? Richie James and Hodgins. 2021, Golladay, Toney and Engram. 2020, Shep, Engram and Tate.
Slayton has been the best Receiver on this team the last three seasons. With a crap Oline and a broken QB. What if Jones lived up to his contract and that Oline was fixed, would Jones have over 4000 yards passing? Easily. This year two Rookies finding their way, Waller injured and Shepard not even being utilized. Where would those yards go to?
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 05:39:49 PMTyreek Hill is in his 8th year in the league and has only had 1500 receiving yards twice. He never once did it with Mahomes (the best QB in the league) and Andy Reid (the best playcaller in the league). You're saying Slayton would have done it the last three year with any top 10 QB and good O line.
If you consistently get 1500 receiving yards a year in this league year after year you are an elite superstar who is going to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, period, no questions asked. Hell, Megatron only did it twice. Randy Moss only did it once. You're saying Slayton, who is in his fifth year, would have done it "a few times" already on a better team when Tyreek Hill couldn't do it once with Mahomes, Reid, and a top O line.
Really? And you're calling us "nuts" for saying he's a solid player?
Lol, I thought he was just being sarcastic. Apparently not. I remember when they traded Toney to KC, there were more than a few people who thought he would be a beast with Mahomes. A lot of these guys are what they are. Slayton has a slightly higher chance of 1,500 yards in a season than me and you.
Ed every single 1500 yard receiver over the last 20 years on the list you provided is a Hall of Famer except for Josh Gordon, who was a Hall of Fame caliber talent whose career was ruined by substance abuse at a young age.
Do you think Slayton is a HOF caliber talent? If so we can respectfully agree to disagree. I think he is a good player, and I agree with your statement that he has been the best (or at least most productive) Giants receiver of the last three seasons. But consistently 1500 receiving yards per season with a better QB and O line? That would make him first ballot HOF material. I can't and won't get on board with that. Yes, he's good. But he's not all time. Even in a much better situation.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 06:41:01 PMEd every single 1500 yard receiver over the last 20 years on the list you provided is a Hall of Famer except for Josh Gordon, who was a Hall of Fame caliber talent whose career was ruined by substance abuse at a young age.
Do you think Slayton is a HOF caliber talent? If so we can respectfully agree to disagree. I think he is a good player, and I agree with your statement that he has been the best (or at least most productive) Giants receiver of the last three seasons. But consistently 1500 receiving yards per season with a better QB and O line? That would make him first ballot HOF material. I can't and won't get on board with that. Yes, he's good. But he's not all time. Even in a much better situation.
You're putting active players in the HOF. We are talking the last three years. Look at Slayton's number of targets and receptions compared to Diggs, Kupp and Jefferson. Look at Slayton's yards per reception behind Daniel Jones. Ok, 1500 yards is a lofty goal but if he had the targets those players had, do the math. 100 receptions at 14.5 yards per reception is 1450 yards. How about 110 receptions?
Just because this Offense has been horrible, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
How many yards would Saquon Barkley have behind a decent Oline? He's not headed for the HOF either at this point.
This is the trap Mike Lombardi says teams fall into. In one of his podcasts he used the NBA as an example. A desperate team signs a bench player who averaged 10 points and 5 rebounds in 20 minutes per game. They assume the player will average 20 points and 10 rebounds if he plays 40 minutes a game. But when the player is on the floor for that many minutes his performance regresses. Lombardi's point is you can't take a role player and manufacture a star performer simply by giving him more playing time, or in this case targets. If it was that easy, everyone would do it.
I view Barkley very differently from a pure talent perspective than I do Slayton. Barkley is a great talent who was done in by injuries. He didn't need everything around him to be perfect to put up huge numbers. He just did it, and he did it on a very bad team (see 2018 season). That's a great player. He won't go to the HOF because of all the injuries, but talent-wise he is in a different stratosphere than Slatyon.
Again this is in no way to knock Slayton. He is a good player who would have a roster spot on any NFL team and meaningful job in some offenses. But is he a top 5, 10 or even top 20 NFL receiver (from a raw ability perspective) like you seem to be suggesting? I don't buy that.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 08:27:51 PMI view Barkley very differently from a pure talent perspective than I do Slayton. Barkley is a great talent who was done in by injuries. He didn't need everything around him to be perfect to put up huge numbers. He just did it, and he did it on a very bad team (see 2018 season). That's a great player. He won't go to the HOF because of all the injuries, but talent-wise he is in a different stratosphere than Slatyon.
Again this is in no way to knock Slayton. He is a good player who would have a roster spot on any NFL team and meaningful job in some offenses. But is he a top 5, 10 or even top 20 NFL receiver (from a raw ability perspective) like you seem to be suggesting? I don't buy that.
With a QB who passes for 3000 yards a season, how would you know.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 08:27:51 PMI view Barkley very differently from a pure talent perspective than I do Slayton. Barkley is a great talent who was done in by injuries. He didn't need everything around him to be perfect to put up huge numbers. He just did it, and he did it on a very bad team (see 2018 season). That's a great player. He won't go to the HOF because of all the injuries, but talent-wise he is in a different stratosphere than Slatyon.
Again this is in no way to knock Slayton. He is a good player who would have a roster spot on any NFL team and meaningful job in some offenses. But is he a top 5, 10 or even top 20 NFL receiver (from a raw ability perspective) like you seem to be suggesting? I don't buy that.
You have it backwards
Slayton is a better than average player on a lower than average team with a lower than average QB (Jones) although I do not know why Tommy is not throwing to Slayton more often
Barkley is a huge disappointment. Picked #1 in the draft he has been either hurt or average his whole career
He cannot block very well, has trouble with short passes, and averages 4 YPC but those numbers bolstered by 2-3 long runs per game. Take out the occasional long run and hes good for a yard per carry. He does not fight for extra yardage
He cannot break a tackle to save himself and has zero vision, normally running into the teammate in front of him before hitting the turf
Watching James Cooks for the Bills the last game, he was running through tackles like a man possessed and destroyed the Cowpokes. Compare that to Barkley who goes down so easily.
Slayton is a valuable Giants player. Barkley I'm hoping will find a new next year. Time to move on from Gettlemans folly.
Barkley and Jones would both probably be happier on a more experienced and polished team like say the Vikings. We need to rebuild with young legs
Quote from: BluesCruz on December 22, 2023, 06:00:49 AMYou have it backwards
Slayton is a better than average player on a lower than average team with a lower than average QB (Jones) although I do not know why Tommy is not throwing to Slayton more often
Barkley is a huge disappointment. Picked #1 in the draft he has been either hurt or average his whole career
He cannot block very well, has trouble with short passes, and averages 4 YPC but those numbers bolstered by 2-3 long runs per game. Take out the occasional long run and hes good for a yard per carry. He does not fight for extra yardage
He cannot break a tackle to save himself and has zero vision, normally running into the teammate in front of him before hitting the turf
Watching James Cooks for the Bills the last game, he was running through tackles like a man possessed and destroyed the Cowpokes. Compare that to Barkley who goes down so easily.
Slayton is a valuable Giants player. Barkley I'm hoping will find a new next year. Time to move on from Gettlemans folly.
Barkley and Jones would both probably be happier on a more experienced and polished team like say the Vikings. We need to rebuild with young legs
Barkley is a disappointment relative to his draft status mainly due to his injuries. It is also a highly questionable move to take a RB second overall (questionable is a friendly way of putting how I feel), given the lack of positional value.
As a raw, pure talent in the absolute sense, Barkley is better than Slayton. Barkley prior to all his injuries was a top three RB in the league. Slayton is not a top 20 receiver in the league. I'm talking raw talent relative to peers, not the actual outcome.
Unlike Slayton, Barkley has performed at an elite level on this team with a terrible offensive line, terrible play caller, and terrible QB play and offense around him. He didn't need everything to be perfect around him to perform. See his 2018 season. Slayton is not capable of performing at that type of level. If you stuck on him on the Dolphins or some elite offense would his numbers better? Of course they would. Nobody would argue otherwise. But the point is that he needs to be in a great situation for his numbers to be much better. Barkley, at least prior to all his injuries, does not. In fact, Barkley last year was much better (again relative to his peers around the league) than Slayton was in the same offense.
I've been very vocal for a while now that I don't want to re-sign Barkley. It is an economically sound move in my view, and I don't like his durability nor do I like the short shelf-life of the position. (insofar as paying up to have a 27/28 year old for a couple years with a guarantee). But that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. He clearly does. It has deteriorated somewhat with all the injuries and mileage, but we have seen him do it.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2023, 07:14:48 AMBarkley is a disappointment relative to his draft status mainly due to his injuries. It is also a highly questionable move to take a RB second overall (questionable is a friendly way of putting how I feel), given the lack of positional value.
As a raw, pure talent in the absolute sense, Barkley is better than Slayton. Barkley prior to all his injuries was a top three RB in the league. Slayton is not a top 20 receiver in the league. I'm talking raw talent relative to peers, not the actual outcome.
Unlike Slayton, Barkley has performed at an elite level on this team with a terrible offensive line, terrible play caller, and terrible QB play and offense around him. He didn't need everything to be perfect around him to perform. See his 2018 season. Slayton is not capable of performing at that type of level. If you stuck on him on the Dolphins or some elite offense would his numbers better? Of course they would. Nobody would argue otherwise. But the point is that he needs to be in a great situation for his numbers to be much better. Barkley, at least prior to all his injuries, does not. In fact, Barkley last year was much better (again relative to his peers around the league) than Slayton was in the same offense.
I've been very vocal for a while now that I don't want to re-sign Barkley. It is an economically sound move in my view, and I don't like his durability nor do I like the short shelf-life of the position. (insofar as paying up to have a 27/28 year old for a couple years with a guarantee). But that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. He clearly does. It has deteriorated somewhat with all the injuries and mileage, but we have seen him do it.
Slayton had 23% of the passing yards last season on 15% of the targets. The top QBs in the league throw for 4500-5000 yards. As the X Receiver, Slayton hasn't been targeted on all those short passes in that quick game with a Run based Offense and a QB with less than 2 seconds to throw on almost 50% of his snaps.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2023, 07:14:48 AMBarkley is a disappointment relative to his draft status mainly due to his injuries. It is also a highly questionable move to take a RB second overall (questionable is a friendly way of putting how I feel), given the lack of positional value.
As a raw, pure talent in the absolute sense, Barkley is better than Slayton. Barkley prior to all his injuries was a top three RB in the league. Slayton is not a top 20 receiver in the league. I'm talking raw talent relative to peers, not the actual outcome.
Unlike Slayton, Barkley has performed at an elite level on this team with a terrible offensive line, terrible play caller, and terrible QB play and offense around him. He didn't need everything to be perfect around him to perform. See his 2018 season. Slayton is not capable of performing at that type of level. If you stuck on him on the Dolphins or some elite offense would his numbers better? Of course they would. Nobody would argue otherwise. But the point is that he needs to be in a great situation for his numbers to be much better. Barkley, at least prior to all his injuries, does not. In fact, Barkley last year was much better (again relative to his peers around the league) than Slayton was in the same offense.
I've been very vocal for a while now that I don't want to re-sign Barkley. It is an economically sound move in my view, and I don't like his durability nor do I like the short shelf-life of the position. (insofar as paying up to have a 27/28 year old for a couple years with a guarantee). But that doesn't mean I don't think he has talent. He clearly does. It has deteriorated somewhat with all the injuries and mileage, but we have seen him do it.
If the Giants want to move on from Barkley they should have already made preparations to do so. I don't understand this team's approach to the running back position in the slightest.
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 21, 2023, 04:42:25 PMYou guys are nuts. If he had a top ten QB with a competent Offensive Line, Slayton would have 1500 yards a season the past few years. Old memories of his earlier dropsies. He's fast, runs clean routes and has hauled in some challenging passes.
It's quite comical to see someone say Slayton is a consistent 1,500-yard WR with a better QB and then have them call other people's opinions nuts. LOL
Quote from: Stringer Bell on December 22, 2023, 09:07:01 AMIt's quite comical to see someone say Slayton is a consistent 1,500-yard WR with a better QB and then have them call other people's opinions nuts. LOL
It is, isn't it. =))
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 21, 2023, 06:41:01 PMEd every single 1500 yard receiver over the last 20 years on the list you provided is a Hall of Famer except for Josh Gordon, who was a Hall of Fame caliber talent whose career was ruined by substance abuse at a young age.
Do you think Slayton is a HOF caliber talent? If so we can respectfully agree to disagree. I think he is a good player, and I agree with your statement that he has been the best (or at least most productive) Giants receiver of the last three seasons. But consistently 1500 receiving yards per season with a better QB and O line? That would make him first ballot HOF material. I can't and won't get on board with that. Yes, he's good. But he's not all time. Even in a much better situation.
:what: Smith, Wayne, Andre Johnson and Brown are not in the HOF. They may not be eligible yet but the point stands.
Quote from: TDToomer on December 22, 2023, 09:33:33 AM:what: Smith, Wayne, Andre Johnson and Brown are not in the HOF. They may not be eligible yet but the point stands.
My bad for Wayne and Smith Jr, and you're right to call it out. Those were oversights on my part. Sorry about that to all. I would argue they should be but that's a different argument and not what I intended to mean.
Johnson was considered a big snub this year. I think he gets in.
AB had a HOF caliber career IMO. He deserves it based on his play on the field. Admittedly he fell off sharply at the end of his career but that was primarily due to off the field issues (I suspect he has CTE or some significant mental illness). He might be one of the top 10 receiving talents of all time. He was completely unstoppable for about six years in his prime. Whether he gets in or not is another discussion, but if he doesn't it won't be because his play on the field wasn't up to that type of level.
Darius Slayton is probably the worst number 1 WR in the league. And if he were a number 2 he would be bottom tier here.
People have to realize the talent on this team stinks. We were better off letting him go this offseason and building some OL depth instead. He is not a difference maker. Has one good game every 7-8 games. Drops too many passes. Doesnt make contested catches. Just need to move on from players like this.
Not to throw fuel on the fire but analytically Slayton was a top 15 Wr last year. He was easily top 15 in every metric above replacement. So while the actual production isn't there, because our Qbs are absolutely horrible, our Wrs weren't the issue last year and likely aren't this year. Wandale, Hodgins, Slayton, and our other slot wr last year all ranked really well above replacement. It's why the Jones doesn't have weapons theory that floated around last season was so baffling, Jones has weapons, he just couldn't ever get it to them.
I remember
@Ed Vette and I brought it up several times last year and he even provided the graphs/stats showing that our Wrs were doing really well and that they weren't the issue.
If we had an actual Qb Slayton easily goes for a 1,000 + and Hyatt is ROTY talks, while Wandale would have had a really nice comeback story.
Quote from: TONKA56 on December 22, 2023, 09:06:05 AMIf the Giants want to move on from Barkley they should have already made preparations to do so. I don't understand this team's approach to the running back position in the slightest.
He may want to move on from the Giants. They may come to an agreement. I don't know how that would work but he hinted.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 22, 2023, 12:34:08 PMNot to throw fuel on the fire but analytically Slayton was a top 15 Wr last year. He was easily top 15 in every metric above replacement. So while the actual production isn't there, because our Qbs are absolutely horrible, our Wrs weren't the issue last year and likely aren't this year. Wandale, Hodgins, Slayton, and our other slot wr last year all ranked really well above replacement. It's why the Jones doesn't have weapons theory that floated around last season was so baffling, Jones has weapons, he just couldn't ever get it to them.
I remember @Ed Vette and I brought it up several times last year and he even provided the graphs/stats showing that our Wrs were doing really well and that they weren't the issue.
If we had an actual Qb Slayton easily goes for a 1,000 + and Hyatt is ROTY talks, while Wandale would have had a really nice comeback story.
I'm concerned for Hyatt. He may wind up burning some years here.
At no point ever was Slayton a top 15 WR ever. Its just maddening how fans overrated their players. How did he dod against the Eagles? He didnt have a catch on one game against them until the 4th quarter. To p30 WRs in the league are difference makers. They are constantly open and making plays. Slayton does not do this even remotely consistently. He isnt physical. He doesnt have good hands. And rarely does he win 1 on 1 matchups.
People have to watch other teams in the league do consistently. People can blame Jones cause its the easy cop out for them to do. But your telling me Slayton is a top 15 compared to guys like what hte 49ers, cowboys, eagles, chargers (when healthy), dolpphins, begals, rams, etc...
Slayton would be pushing for a roster spot on some of these teams. Get rid of the fat and find BETTER PLAYERS!
Quote from: Ed Vette on December 22, 2023, 12:47:45 PMHe may want to move on from the Giants. They may come to an agreement. I don't know how that would work but he hinted.
It's always weird wherever Barkley is concerned.
My answer is, No. And as they have better options, I wouldn't expect him to be, and I dare say, neither would the Giants.
Cheers!
If I were Slayton's agent, I would talking a lot about the benefits of a year in KC or Buffalo even if at less pay than wanted.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 25, 2023, 02:33:22 PMIf I were Slayton's agent, I would talking a lot about the benefits of a year in KC or Buffalo even if at less pay than wanted.
I believe Atlanta wanted him this past season but he turned them down for the Giants. I don't think ATL would have been any better than the Giants but KC or DET would have.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 25, 2023, 02:33:22 PMIf I were Slayton's agent, I would talking a lot about the benefits of a year in KC or Buffalo even if at less pay than wanted.
Since Slayton is under contract next year are you suggesting his agent commit to tampering and try to facilitate a trade?
Quote from: TDToomer on December 26, 2023, 10:17:46 AMSince Slayton is under contract next year are you suggesting his agent commit to tampering and try to facilitate a trade?
No, just looking to his next FA.